tipping questioin
Quote: DJTeddyBearOn the other hand, I don't think you should feel like it's your duty to make up the difference if the other players are stiffs. On the contrary, lead by example - or by reminder. Nothing wrong with another player helping the dealers by soft hustling those tokes.
Agreed, on both counts.
When playing PGP at the Exaclibur for around two hours, I noticed I was the only one who tipped at all. the first tip i handled casually. The second I did loudly and making a bit of a show of it. I thought perhaps some players didn't even know they should tip. I'm afraid it dind't work, though, as no one else tipped anything while I was there.
On other things, those of you saying you're not going to pay for an employee's salary, I've got two thigns to say:
1) you pay for all the salaries of all the employees of any palce where you buy anything from, regardless of whether you do so directly or inditrectly. When you buy a coke at a 7-Eleven, you're paying for the clerk's salary, the stock-room epople, if any, the Coke delivery guy, the personnel at the bottling plant, etc, etc.
2) If you resent tipping, you're letting a good opportunity pass you by. You have the chance to rate the service employee in a way that he or she has to notice. This doesn't matter in palces you seldom visit, but it can make a big difference in places you go to often.
Why is it the definitive answer? 'Cause I'm typing it and feel like calling it definitive... you know: like Loose Slots or Hot Chicks. Its meaningless puffery.
Why is it termed "Un-American"? Is this shades of the fifties and the Hollywood Blacklist, House Committees and Headlines?
Well, for quite some time in this country tipping was indeed un-American and was viewed as an evil from European class societies.
One need only watch the opening scenes of Painted Desert to see what signage was common in restaurants. Its a good movie and it only has a few errors as to flora and fauna.
But to finally get to the point, tipping in America and tipping in Las Vegas probably bear no relationship to each other. Tipping in Las Vegas bears more of a relationship to "The Bite" in Mexico or to Dashing someone in Nigeria. An endemic practice throughout all aspects of society in certain countries.
Now we all have pet peeves and some people just don't like valet drivers to knash their gears and screech their brakes, so they self park and lug some bags themselves. Some people lug their own bags because they prefer to tip pretty girls rather than muscle-bound guys who lift luggage all day long. So we all have preferences but we also all have a certain realization as to where we are and have all heard that statement about "When in Rome..." so we often decide that "When in Vegas, if you see a palm, grease it". Ever see a drunk trying to stuff some money into one of those flashing "Don't Walk" signs just because it depicts an outstretched palm?
In days long gone by some casinos had strict rules about dealer conversation. If the table was empty the dealers were forbidden to engage passersby in ANY conversation on any topic. Some casinos allowed chit chat with players on a limited basis some did not. One casino had such a strict policy against hustling tips that conversation was not permitted. A dice crew had one neophyte tourist attending a medical convention show up at their table, he played craps terribly and shortly wandered off. One of the dice crew went on break and actually telephoned the casino's operator to page Doctor SuchnSuch and informed him "I'm one of the dealers at the craps table that you just left, come back and say these exact words to us, xxxxx". The neophyte craps player did as he was told and once the player had uttered the magic words the dealers were allowed to show him various bets and press progressions and they just happened to show him how to put a couple of green chips on the line next to his own bet. The craps player did real well and so did the crew, but this showed how that particular casino was very strict.
Things have changed and now the expression Green Light indicates a Box or Floor who is indicating he will allow a greater measure of tip hustling. Dealers love it when the first person puts a tip down for them. They say "thank you" because they know that even a one dollar tip will start the ball rolling as other players start to feel guilty about not having tipped. Relief dealers are informed of who at the table is good tipper. A retiring dealer will thank the guy who tipped them even if it was awhile ago and the tip did not win. That public thank you well after the event is thought to stimulate other players. None of this may have been scientifically proven but we all know its frequently encountered.
Top strip dice dealers used to make 80 to 100 a year. Most of the players made less, some made far less. Yet tips are still squeezed out of the players. Often break room conversation reflects a desire for tips but no respect for tippers or over-tippers.
The reality is that casinos now have attitudes wherein tipping is allowed and often where its openly encouraged and expected. Historical practices in America really are not relevant. All that matters is that its an ingrained practice. Live with it since others live by it.
Quote: FleaStiffTipping: The definitive answer on this Un-American Activity.
Why is it the definitive answer? 'Cause I'm typing it and feel like calling it definitive... you know: like Loose Slots or Hot Chicks. Its meaningless puffery.
Why is it termed "Un-American"? Is this shades of the fifties and the Hollywood Blacklist, House Committees and Headlines?
Well, for quite some time in this country tipping was indeed un-American and was viewed as an evil from European class societies.
One need only watch the opening scenes of Painted Desert to see what signage was common in restaurants. Its a good movie and it only has a few errors as to flora and fauna.
But to finally get to the point, tipping in America and tipping in Las Vegas probably bear no relationship to each other. Tipping in Las Vegas bears more of a relationship to "The Bite" in Mexico or to Dashing someone in Nigeria. An endemic practice throughout all aspects of society in certain countries.
Now we all have pet peeves and some people just don't like valet drivers to knash their gears and screech their brakes, so they self park and lug some bags themselves. Some people lug their own bags because they prefer to tip pretty girls rather than muscle-bound guys who lift luggage all day long. So we all have preferences but we also all have a certain realization as to where we are and have all heard that statement about "When in Rome..." so we often decide that "When in Vegas, if you see a palm, grease it". Ever see a drunk trying to stuff some money into one of those flashing "Don't Walk" signs just because it depicts an outstretched palm?
In days long gone by some casinos had strict rules about dealer conversation. If the table was empty the dealers were forbidden to engage passersby in ANY conversation on any topic. Some casinos allowed chit chat with players on a limited basis some did not. One casino had such a strict policy against hustling tips that conversation was not permitted. A dice crew had one neophyte tourist attending a medical convention show up at their table, he played craps terribly and shortly wandered off. One of the dice crew went on break and actually telephoned the casino's operator to page Doctor SuchnSuch and informed him "I'm one of the dealers at the craps table that you just left, come back and say these exact words to us, xxxxx". The neophyte craps player did as he was told and once the player had uttered the magic words the dealers were allowed to show him various bets and press progressions and they just happened to show him how to put a couple of green chips on the line next to his own bet. The craps player did real well and so did the crew, but this showed how that particular casino was very strict.
Things have changed and now the expression Green Light indicates a Box or Floor who is indicating he will allow a greater measure of tip hustling. Dealers love it when the first person puts a tip down for them. They say "thank you" because they know that even a one dollar tip will start the ball rolling as other players start to feel guilty about not having tipped. Relief dealers are informed of who at the table is good tipper. A retiring dealer will thank the guy who tipped them even if it was awhile ago and the tip did not win. That public thank you well after the event is thought to stimulate other players. None of this may have been scientifically proven but we all know its frequently encountered.
Top strip dice dealers used to make 80 to 100 a year. Most of the players made less, some made far less. Yet tips are still squeezed out of the players. Often break room conversation reflects a desire for tips but no respect for tippers or over-tippers.
The reality is that casinos now have attitudes wherein tipping is allowed and often where its openly encouraged and expected. Historical practices in America really are not relevant. All that matters is that its an ingrained practice. Live with it since others live by it.
Where I work many people seem to EXPECT a tip, especially with a big win. I don't really expect it, although I'll be a little bitter when someone doesn't tip. But it's not like a $1000 win should be an automatic $50 tip. In fact most times it's not that much. But some dealers will get irate with a player, complaining in the break room about him.
And most times there's players that just don't know it's customary, so they don't tip at all. I've got coworkers that scoff at these types of players. It's like getting mad at a toddler for picking up and playing with something they're not supposed to, and have never done before. You can't yell and scream at the kid for that, they simply don't know any better.
Just last night I had a player that rarely plays, and started out small. He went all in with $106 across (buy on 4/10). He hit a few times, and came out a little ahead. Next shooter he said he wanted to do it again. I suggested $132 across (on point of 6). Not much different but a little easier on the dealer (I was stick). He proceeded to have a great roll, hitting tons of 4's and 10's. After that roll he was $900 ahead, but throughout the roll the dice were going off the table (3 out of first five roll attempts).. the box was becoming short with him. He and his friend kept talking about how the casino was trying to cheat him to get him to roll a seven. Once he left he didn't give the dealers a single dollar, either because he didn't know, or thought we, as in the casino AND dealers were "out to get him" or a combination of both.
There are still people that think the games are "fixed" so that you ALWAYS lose your money. It's those type of people that really piss me off. I just want to yell at them and tell them how much of an idiot they are.
My tipping policy is to tip a few bucks as long as the dealers are working with me--reminding me of bets, being responsive to bet placements, etc. They don't have to be perfect dealers (a lot of them are break-ins) but they do have to have a good attitude and be paying attention (not too much cross-talk with the other dealers) to me and the other customers. If they aren't doing those simple things, tipping goes way down. I have never been able to turn an horrible dealer into a good one or make a sour dealer a happy one...not my job!!
I do see dealers "redirect" bets gently to give them more coverage. If more than one person tosses in a "Yo", some of them will say that "we have the yo, can we put that on the line?". The player will most likely agree because they will see that it gives the dealer more opportunities to win one of the bets.
I do feel that good dealers, when being tipped, will take your side a bit more when they have to make a "call" about a bet.
If they are truly the idiot you think they are, why did they walk in, in the first place?Quote: ewjones080There are still people that think the games are "fixed" so that you ALWAYS lose your money. It's those type of people that really piss me off. I just want to yell at them and tell them how much of an idiot they are.
Quote: DJTeddyBearIf they are truly the idiot you think they are, why did they walk in, in the first place?
I'm making the assumption that they have zero knowledge on what a house edge is, but think they can beat the casino's "ruse" to take their money.
Quote: rudeboy99I've been dealing for literally decades...most of the last 25 years at table for table joints. Personally, if a player is going to put us in action, I try to get the money in on a 'line bet with odds or a small place bet. If the player is determined to bet the tokes on the hard ways, I usually try to get the player to go with us (the crew) hoping they will go for a parley if a bet comes in. Most casinos I've worked at would consider this an absolute no-no, but where I work now has a pretty loose toke policy and we don't catch much heat. I'm talking $1 to $5 bets here. If a bigger funded player puts us up, like $25, we're so glad if it hits we take it down. Where I'm currently at, the decision whether to leave a winning toke bet up, just locking the payoff up is pretty much left to our discretion as well. It's funny, reading the posts throughout this thread I can almost visualize the various stiffs and live players as well. Although I don't know what anybody looks like, I can certainly recognize the tone of voice.
I will tip w a hardway parley on occasion. I can't tell you how often the point will be made and bet pushed repeatedly until lost.
