tipping questioin
February 15th, 2012 at 11:46:16 AM
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I have started throwing the dealers a $5 right when I walk up - that is because I ask the dealer to be putting stuff up and take things down all the time. It's kinda hard to follow what I am doing and I find the tip curbs them from getting annoyed as easily. I learned this after having a dealer so pissed at me, and then when I tipped him a 10$, he was so grateful and started chatting me up etc. It made me think - why the hell did I wait on that?
But that isn't my question,
My question is for the dealers.
I learn by observation, and I had often seen people throw $4 and yell, "all the hardways for the dealer." I thought that was pretty cool so I do that often now.
However, I sometimes wonder if the dealers wouldn't rather just have the $4. They are crappy bets and often get lost.
What do you think? Do dealers like their tip money gambled? And not only gambled but gambled on high house edge bets? I have yet to see someone say $22 on the inside for the dealers. I should probably try that.
But that isn't my question,
My question is for the dealers.
I learn by observation, and I had often seen people throw $4 and yell, "all the hardways for the dealer." I thought that was pretty cool so I do that often now.
However, I sometimes wonder if the dealers wouldn't rather just have the $4. They are crappy bets and often get lost.
What do you think? Do dealers like their tip money gambled? And not only gambled but gambled on high house edge bets? I have yet to see someone say $22 on the inside for the dealers. I should probably try that.
February 15th, 2012 at 11:55:47 AM
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Dealers are human and probably have different opinions but often have an employer policy as to how they should respond to any questions about such preferences. So its best to never ask what they prefer but to ask what the dealer thinks most dealers might prefer. This gives the dealer a bit of latitude in his response.
I think dealers prefer a bet as long as its a reasonable bet such as a Pass Line Bet or something. A dollar hardway doesn't go far even if it wins.
Making a dealer bet early in the game is good. They notice you. They may or may not respect you, but they notice you and will watch out for errors just to keep any tipper happy.
I think dealers prefer a bet as long as its a reasonable bet such as a Pass Line Bet or something. A dollar hardway doesn't go far even if it wins.
Making a dealer bet early in the game is good. They notice you. They may or may not respect you, but they notice you and will watch out for errors just to keep any tipper happy.
February 15th, 2012 at 12:04:36 PM
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Quote: slackyhackyHowever, I sometimes wonder if the dealers wouldn't rather just have the $4. They are crappy bets and often get lost.
What's the pay out if it does win? Assuming enough players make the bet, it might be profitable for the dealers.
Still, as I mostly don't play bonus bets or other high-house edge/high-payoff bets, I usually tip the dealers straight up. If they then want to gamble their money, that's their business.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
February 15th, 2012 at 12:11:01 PM
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Unlike a waiter who gives good service while anticipating a tip, not all gamblers tip, so if you're gonna get better service because you tip, certainly tip when you first get to the table!
Some dealers are also gamblers, and love to have toke bets out there - even if they are sharing it with the other dealers.
Some dealers would prefer you just give them the tip without betting.
HOWEVER, dealers will not answer that question - at least not in the casino where they work. The standard answer is, "We always appreciate it, regardless if it's bet or handed in directly."
And don't worry about it getting lost. The dealers DO make a point of remembering who tipped what.
I often see people give $6 across. That's an even worse bet because, except for the 4/10, they round down!
Some dealers are also gamblers, and love to have toke bets out there - even if they are sharing it with the other dealers.
Some dealers would prefer you just give them the tip without betting.
HOWEVER, dealers will not answer that question - at least not in the casino where they work. The standard answer is, "We always appreciate it, regardless if it's bet or handed in directly."
Crappy is in the eye of the beholder. It would be weird to make hardway toke bets if you don't have your own hardway bets, but nothing wrong with a two-way.Quote:... They are crappy bets and often get lost.
And don't worry about it getting lost. The dealers DO make a point of remembering who tipped what.
I;ve never seen it either. I think that's a bit on the high side - unless you're putting down at least $220 inside for yourself.Quote:I have yet to see someone say $22 on the inside for the dealers. I should probably try that.
I often see people give $6 across. That's an even worse bet because, except for the 4/10, they round down!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 15th, 2012 at 12:18:11 PM
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I have asked dealers many times and some would rather just have it or some would just gamble it. Usually if i am tipping for a decent win I give it to them straight up. if i havent tipped them in a while and I am even or floundering, then I might put a dollar or two on a bonus bet for them. True story, playing Spanish 21 at Harrah's AC, a guy was crazy hot on match the dealer. He started putting 25-50 bucks himself and 10-20 for the dealer and he was hitting exact matches and double matches like crazy. i swear the dealers tip box got full after about 20 minutes and I mean she must have made $500 minimum in that time, so you never know.
February 15th, 2012 at 12:19:37 PM
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DJ I have had many dealers in tell me how they wanted the tip, if I asked. Some will even tell me exactly how they want it played.
February 15th, 2012 at 12:23:10 PM
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Different strokes for different folks. I have even seen dealers answer when asked how to play a BJ hand, which is a definite NO-NO per gaming. Speaking of gaming, my wife was working the door at a casino and asked for ID from a 30+ year old gaming female employee. LOL Instead of being complimented, she thought Josie recognized her and was being cute !
February 15th, 2012 at 1:12:30 PM
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Quote: NareedWhat's the pay out if it does win? Assuming enough players make the bet, it might be profitable for the dealers.
Still, as I mostly don't play bonus bets or other high-house edge/high-payoff bets, I usually tip the dealers straight up. If they then want to gamble their money, that's their business.
The hardways have about a 10% edge, so it's a $3.60 tip. I've done it once or twice, the last time at the IP when I had a spare $4 on my cash out, which I gave them boys (actually all ladies) all the hardways for a buck each. Everyone hit for the dealers, earning them a nice $36, while I watched my friend also hit a few more points before we left.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 15th, 2012 at 1:12:41 PM
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I find that craps dealers aren't really appreciative of chump tips of a buck of two. They like the big hit.
So, I prefer the two-way hardways bet. Why? I want to win. I want them to win. If I win $7 or $9, they win $8 or $10. Yep, they are crappy bets, but the edge for the dealer on the hardways is lower for them than it is for the player. The EV of a $4 hard way is: $10 x 2/11 + $8 x 2/9 = 20/11 + 16/9 = (180 + 176)/99 = 356/99 = $3.60.
If you are going to tip straight out, give reds.
So, I prefer the two-way hardways bet. Why? I want to win. I want them to win. If I win $7 or $9, they win $8 or $10. Yep, they are crappy bets, but the edge for the dealer on the hardways is lower for them than it is for the player. The EV of a $4 hard way is: $10 x 2/11 + $8 x 2/9 = 20/11 + 16/9 = (180 + 176)/99 = 356/99 = $3.60.
If you are going to tip straight out, give reds.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
February 15th, 2012 at 1:21:37 PM
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These posts remind me of how the Wizard will have the drink server play a game to determine whether they get no tip or a $20 tip. I think most dealers would prefer to take the $2, but hey, if you are in Vegas you might as well take the gamble, I'm sure they will appreciate the thought either way. Personally I would take the gamble if I were the drink server, but variance in pay can be a little dangerous, if you are guessing poorly that day you could bring home a lot less money at the end of the day.
February 15th, 2012 at 1:41:57 PM
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Drink servers rely on volume for their tips. Dealers are looking for the black players that tip greens, not the red players that tip whites. I've been at the tables before where I've been playing red, and other players are betting high/low for the dealers for $5 / $25 which sometimes hit. My $5 tip means nothing.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
February 15th, 2012 at 1:44:28 PM
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I typically don't play side bets on BJ games (except for 21+3 when I'm in the mood and doing all right). However, I'll get dealers who will continuously point out when I would have won on those bets. In those circumstances, I will ask the dealer if they want their tip there. I will not play the side bet myself, but if they want me to, then it's their money.
If a dealer is not making comments, then I might ask them if they play side bets when they gamble. If they say yes, then I'll play it there for them... if not, or they don't gamble, then we'll play the tip on the main bet.
If a dealer is not making comments, then I might ask them if they play side bets when they gamble. If they say yes, then I'll play it there for them... if not, or they don't gamble, then we'll play the tip on the main bet.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
February 15th, 2012 at 1:45:53 PM
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What casino do you play at where the house edge is different for toke bets?Quote: boymimboYep, they are crappy bets, but the edge for the dealer on the hardways is lower for them than it is for the player.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 15th, 2012 at 1:45:54 PM
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Quote: boymimboI find that craps dealers aren't really appreciative of chump tips of a buck of two. They like the big hit.
So, I prefer the two-way hardways bet. Why? I want to win. I want them to win. If I win $7 or $9, they win $8 or $10. Yep, they are crappy bets, but the edge for the dealer on the hardways is lower for them than it is for the player. The EV of a $4 hard way is: $10 x 2/11 + $8 x 2/9 = 20/11 + 16/9 = (180 + 176)/99 = 356/99 = $3.60.
If you are going to tip straight out, give reds.
The edge is the same for the players and the dealers. Just because the dealers often come down on their bet, doesn't change the edge, as you also have the ability to "come down" on your bet...
February 15th, 2012 at 2:08:07 PM
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Thinking further about it, if I were to play the Fire Bet for $5 I'd add a dealer bet for $1, too, assuming that was allowed. I'd ask first.
Now, how long until this degenerates into a flame war about tipping? Tipping threads always do... ;)
Now, how long until this degenerates into a flame war about tipping? Tipping threads always do... ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
February 15th, 2012 at 3:54:40 PM
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Yes it's allowed.Quote: NareedThinking further about it, if I were to play the Fire Bet for $5 I'd add a dealer bet for $1, too, assuming that was allowed. I'd ask first.
But that happens to be a point of contention with a dealers in some casinos.
If the 6 point FireBet hits, and the dealers have more than $5 on it, they will only collect on the first $5. They WILL get paid in full if it's hit for less than 6 points.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 15th, 2012 at 4:16:37 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBear
If the 6 point FireBet hits, and the dealers have more than $5 on it, they will only collect on the first $5. They WILL get paid in full if it's hit for less than 6 points.
Where did this info come from DJ it seems so unfair? I have only seen the FireBet hit twice when I was at the table and the dealers were under $5 so they got paid in full. Is this maximum a common rule?
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
February 15th, 2012 at 5:22:39 PM
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I forget which casino, but I heard it from a dealer.
The sign had a comment about maximum payout, and it was the same as the 6 point payout, so I asked the dealer why they bothered making that rule.
The sign had a comment about maximum payout, and it was the same as the 6 point payout, so I asked the dealer why they bothered making that rule.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 15th, 2012 at 6:28:41 PM
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Quote: hook3670True story, playing Spanish 21 at Harrah's AC, a guy was crazy hot on match the dealer. He started putting 25-50 bucks himself and 10-20 for the dealer and he was hitting exact matches and double matches like crazy. i swear the dealers tip box got full after about 20 minutes and I mean she must have made $500 minimum in that time, so you never know.
At NYNY last Fall, I joined a craps table when the dice went to a new shooter; the guy was a rookie, clueless, and he asked the dealer to help him ... and the rest is history.
The dealer started him out at ten bucks line bet, full odds, and a five dollar bet with double odds for the boys.
Blithely, unknowingly, the player made the bet ... and went on to a near-monster roll.
No dummy, the dealer spread him out on come bets, and kept aggressively increasing the PL / Come and odds bets on all of them, really pounding them.
By the time the roll was over, the shooter had himself down for at least five hundred to one thousand plus full odds on the PL / come bets, and the boys were at $100 plus full odds on each.
A sight to see ... a MASTER tip hustler plying his craft.
I noted that the box and floor had no problem with it, none at all.
"What, me worry?"
February 15th, 2012 at 6:37:46 PM
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There's one born every minute...
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 15th, 2012 at 9:22:36 PM
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Having dealt for years I always preferred a bet. On craps the hardways are nice but a line bet with 2x odds (or more) is better. Note that at some properties the dealers are required by either management or the toke committee to take a toke rather than have it bet if offered so it's sometimes better to not even ask and just bet it. It actually is in the dealers' favor to have the player bet the toke rather than hand it in. There's two reasons for this:
-On a game where there is some kind of raise (e.g. doubles/splits on BJ, Ante/Play on the carnival games, odds on craps) the dealer will often end up getting a free bet. The player (in this case the dealer) edge on BJ when double downs and splits are free? Massive.
-Players will tend to toke way more through bets than through hand-ins. A player on a run may hand-in $5 at the end but that same player, if betting the tokes, may end up betting $20+ for the dealers in that same period.
Yes, getting $25 hand-ins is nice but when I worked at a table-for-table joint long ago my absolute favorite type of players were the ones that would tip $1 every couple of hands. An hour at one of those tables would make your entire day. That almost never happened with the high limit players. I promise you that no matter where you play your $5 tip means something to the dealer, pooling tokes or not. If he doesn't make you feel like it's important he should be fired.
As a side note, I too like to bet for the dealers from the get-go. On craps, I'll come in with a $2 bet and max odds. It's important for me since I play consistent bets and drink when I play. I tend to be a forgetful drunk. I've had many dealers honor bets I forgot to make and remind me to take my odds. On average the money they save me probably comes pretty close to the amount I've toked in craps.
-On a game where there is some kind of raise (e.g. doubles/splits on BJ, Ante/Play on the carnival games, odds on craps) the dealer will often end up getting a free bet. The player (in this case the dealer) edge on BJ when double downs and splits are free? Massive.
-Players will tend to toke way more through bets than through hand-ins. A player on a run may hand-in $5 at the end but that same player, if betting the tokes, may end up betting $20+ for the dealers in that same period.
Quote: boymimboDealers are looking for the black players that tip greens, not the red players that tip whites. ... My $5 tip means nothing.
Yes, getting $25 hand-ins is nice but when I worked at a table-for-table joint long ago my absolute favorite type of players were the ones that would tip $1 every couple of hands. An hour at one of those tables would make your entire day. That almost never happened with the high limit players. I promise you that no matter where you play your $5 tip means something to the dealer, pooling tokes or not. If he doesn't make you feel like it's important he should be fired.
As a side note, I too like to bet for the dealers from the get-go. On craps, I'll come in with a $2 bet and max odds. It's important for me since I play consistent bets and drink when I play. I tend to be a forgetful drunk. I've had many dealers honor bets I forgot to make and remind me to take my odds. On average the money they save me probably comes pretty close to the amount I've toked in craps.
February 16th, 2012 at 5:10:11 AM
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This would make me sick. To me, that is stealing from the player. The player should bet as much as they feel comfortable with. I would report those dealers to the casino manager.Quote: MrVAt NYNY last Fall, I joined a craps table when the dice went to a new shooter; the guy was a rookie, clueless, and he asked the dealer to help him ... and the rest is history.
The dealer started him out at ten bucks line bet, full odds, and a five dollar bet with double odds for the boys.
Blithely, unknowingly, the player made the bet ... and went on to a near-monster roll.
No dummy, the dealer spread him out on come bets, and kept aggressively increasing the PL / Come and odds bets on all of them, really pounding them.
By the time the roll was over, the shooter had himself down for at least five hundred to one thousand plus full odds on the PL / come bets, and the boys were at $100 plus full odds on each.
A sight to see ... a MASTER tip hustler plying his craft.
I noted that the box and floor had no problem with it, none at all.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
February 16th, 2012 at 5:12:37 AM
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If you can place a bet for the dealer on the Play bet in Three-card or Ultimate, they have an advantage on the toke. (You have a disadvantage on the overall game; not on the Play bet).Quote: DJTeddyBearWhat casino do you play at where the house edge is different for toke bets?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
February 16th, 2012 at 6:45:06 AM
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Thats a great story. My guy was all on his own. He had money was pretty drunk, was on a roll and was just betting for the dealers like crazy. Caesers AC one night. Young guy, but very strange guy, sits at the Pai Gow Poker table with a stack of orange($500) chips. How a guy this young had this much money was beyond me, but I digress. I mean he looked like he was 24 tops, maybe family money. Anyway he dropped $2000 on the bet and $200 for the dealers. One hundred on the bonus bet and $25 for the dealers. He won the hand with a small bonus to boot, I don't recall if it was a straight or three of a kind. The dealers hands were shaking as he paid out the bet and especially the tips, to the point the manager was laughing at him(in a kidding way)!
February 16th, 2012 at 8:00:54 AM
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Quote: teddysThis would make me sick. To me, that is stealing from the player. The player should bet as much as they feel comfortable with. I would report those dealers to the casino manager.
Well, the dealer never did grab the guy's chips to place the dealer bets himself, he just asked / instructed the player to do so, so I have to assume the player was comfortable with it.
It was quite clear that the business arrangement was: "OK newbie, if you want me to tell you what to do, to be the general for your troops, it will cost you."
The player seemed pretty dazed (buzzed?) the whole time, very nervous yet increasingly excited as the roll unfolded and big wins started coming his way: he never complained.
I walked away thinking it was actually beyond chip hustling; it was as if the dealer had sold his "expertise" to a player, like those so-called craps experts who accompany players and tell them how to bet.
But yeah, I can understand how some might question the propriety of the situation.
Still, it was fascinating and unprecedented.
"What, me worry?"
February 16th, 2012 at 8:23:29 AM
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Considering the dealer was really just doing his Job, informing a player of the various bets on the table,
I don't really see this as a situation where he deserved excessive tips.
I am sick of dealers with the attitude that they deserve tips.
Tips are an appreciation for exceeding expectations.
It is not the players fault that most dealers feel they are underpaid.
Many players view tipping as giving more edge to the house.
I will throw a dollar or two tip to a dealer between shifts so that I get appreciation from both the dealer and the reliever.
More bang for the buck. But in my experience they don't seem to act any differently whether you tip a one or a five.
I don't really see this as a situation where he deserved excessive tips.
I am sick of dealers with the attitude that they deserve tips.
Tips are an appreciation for exceeding expectations.
It is not the players fault that most dealers feel they are underpaid.
Many players view tipping as giving more edge to the house.
I will throw a dollar or two tip to a dealer between shifts so that I get appreciation from both the dealer and the reliever.
More bang for the buck. But in my experience they don't seem to act any differently whether you tip a one or a five.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 16th, 2012 at 10:04:02 AM
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Having been a dealer I always tip too much. But it gets to me when a dealer doesn't even say " thanks for the try " when his bet loses.
Happens rarely in Blackhawk and a new dealer ( new to the casino, but obviously experienced ) took a winner and 2 losers and said nothing. When his relief came, who I knew, I asked him what was up. He told me the new guy was from AC. I shoulda known.
AC dealers , especially the young one, always seemed to be out for speed records.
The hell with waiting for hand signals, if I had a stiff and he had a 5 or 6 up, AC kid would fly by me and other players. On more than one occassion I made him back up by hitting my 17. LOL
But seriously, the new guy in Blackhawk actually stop by later to thank me.
Happens rarely in Blackhawk and a new dealer ( new to the casino, but obviously experienced ) took a winner and 2 losers and said nothing. When his relief came, who I knew, I asked him what was up. He told me the new guy was from AC. I shoulda known.
AC dealers , especially the young one, always seemed to be out for speed records.
The hell with waiting for hand signals, if I had a stiff and he had a 5 or 6 up, AC kid would fly by me and other players. On more than one occassion I made him back up by hitting my 17. LOL
But seriously, the new guy in Blackhawk actually stop by later to thank me.
February 22nd, 2012 at 6:54:33 PM
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Okay, I think I might be the perfect person to ask, since I know the math behind the bets, but I'm also a dealer. The thing to remember is that dealers aren't paid much, just like cocktail waitresses and bartenders, because they get tips. So most of what they make is from players. Now, my personal belief is that it's a bad idea to make dealer bets, unless it's on the passline backed up with odds. I even had a player once put an extra $2 on her odds, which was for the dealer, so that's basically the same as just keeping it, since there's not house edge on odds, but the dealers are still playing along, so they're hoping she hits her point.
However, making dealer bets on the hardways are really bad. To me it's like giving 10% of my tip to the casino. The problem lies in other dealers. Many dealers think just like players, and say, hey let's play along, let's take that $1 and try to get $10 out of it by betting hard 6 or 8. Plus they don't mind if they don't make anything, because at least you were trying to bet for them. Still it seems like a bad idea to me. So what I recommend is putting extra money on your odds for the dealers, and inform them of this, so they know to take the win. Otherwise, just hand it in. What I've thought about doing is, if I have $66 inside, I'll get paid $21 per hit, and take that extra buck and just hand it the dealers as a tip.
To be considered a really good player that all the dealers love, you'd need to be tipping about $40 an hour.. that comes to $10 an hour per dealer. That's at my place though, where we average $12 an hour in tips.. Bigger casinos might be a little more.
However, making dealer bets on the hardways are really bad. To me it's like giving 10% of my tip to the casino. The problem lies in other dealers. Many dealers think just like players, and say, hey let's play along, let's take that $1 and try to get $10 out of it by betting hard 6 or 8. Plus they don't mind if they don't make anything, because at least you were trying to bet for them. Still it seems like a bad idea to me. So what I recommend is putting extra money on your odds for the dealers, and inform them of this, so they know to take the win. Otherwise, just hand it in. What I've thought about doing is, if I have $66 inside, I'll get paid $21 per hit, and take that extra buck and just hand it the dealers as a tip.
To be considered a really good player that all the dealers love, you'd need to be tipping about $40 an hour.. that comes to $10 an hour per dealer. That's at my place though, where we average $12 an hour in tips.. Bigger casinos might be a little more.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:03:48 PM
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Plus, if you play Blackjack, don't make a 50 cent dealer bet. The reason being, if you get a Blackjack, I only get even money, whereas you get an extra 50%. That extra 50% is how the house edge is lowered quite a bit. Over the course of several weeks, the dealers could be shorted several hundred dollars due to those 50 cent Blackjacks.
February 23rd, 2012 at 2:28:33 AM
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Forty dollars an hour! Unbelievable that you think that's a reasonable expectation.
I play about ten hours a week.
You think I should be tipping 20,000 a year?
Get real.
I play about ten hours a week.
You think I should be tipping 20,000 a year?
Get real.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 23rd, 2012 at 4:42:04 AM
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Quote: ewjones080To be considered a really good player that all the dealers love, you'd need to be tipping about $40 an hour.. that comes to $10 an hour per dealer. That's at my place though, where we average $12 an hour in tips.. Bigger casinos might be a little more.
So what you're saying is if I'm not tipping $40 an hour, the dealers don't really "love me" so I shouldn't bother tipping at all. And if I can't bet at least a $1 on BJ I shouldn't even throw you the .50. I appreciate the fact you're a dealer, and if what you say is true, then I can easily make the argument I shouldn't tip. Period.
I agree with WongBo on this. $40 an hour? That's more than I make an hour, by quite a bit... You're ridiculous!
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
February 23rd, 2012 at 4:59:02 AM
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I just read the $40 p/hour tip suggestion. Are you freaking nuts!
Going forward, I will NEVER tip another dealer for the rest of my life.
Hey dealers- go find a job that pays a living wage; or just quit- there are tons of people ready to fill your spot.
Going forward, I will NEVER tip another dealer for the rest of my life.
Hey dealers- go find a job that pays a living wage; or just quit- there are tons of people ready to fill your spot.
"I am a man devoured by the passion for gambling." --Dostoevsky, 1871
February 23rd, 2012 at 5:51:53 AM
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Quote: ewjones080Okay, I think I might be the perfect person to ask, since I know the math behind the bets, but I'm also a dealer. Now, my personal belief is that it's a bad idea to make dealer bets
To be considered a really good player that all the dealers love, you'd need to be tipping about $40 an hour.. that comes to $10 an hour per dealer. That's at my place though, where we average $12 an hour in tips..
Two separate points. I make dealer bets which are slightly negative EV, because I am making those same bets. I get enjoyment out of having the dealer actually rooting for me to win.
You may know the math 'behind the bets', but you clearly don't know the math behind tipping. Why would you divide the $40 an hour by 4 to get 10? Looking at the frequency you guys get breaks (more than any industry I know of, by the way), you still have at most 1.5 dealers per table. If every table had one guy tipping $40 per hour, and not another tip was made by any other player, you all would be getting at least $25 per hour in tips.
February 23rd, 2012 at 6:01:57 AM
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I tip according to courtesy. If the dealers are nice, I've been known to leave a 500 tip at the end.
If they're rude, zero. I have no problem tipping zero to rude dealers.
If they're rude, zero. I have no problem tipping zero to rude dealers.
February 23rd, 2012 at 7:43:45 AM
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Quote: MakingBookI just read the $40 p/hour tip suggestion. Are you freaking nuts!
Going forward, I will NEVER tip another dealer for the rest of my life.
Hey dealers- go find a job that pays a living wage; or just quit- there are tons of people ready to fill your spot.
I made that decision a few years ago and it's working fine for me. When I did tip or if I ever decide to tip again, it will be for outstanding service. I never based a tip on whether I had won or lost because that is not the fault of the dealer.
Between calling players cheaters and hustling for tips, these dealers just keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
February 23rd, 2012 at 8:17:03 AM
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At the craps table I play at, I sometimes deal with a very entertaining dealer who strongly encourages a "hi-lo-yo" after a 4 or 10 is rolled. If it's time to tip, I'll throw that bet in (the Gregory special) for the crew. I like entertaining dealers and will tip much stronger for dealers with alot of personality who make me laugh.
As for the HA on a dealer hardway vs a player hardway, the EV on a hardway for the player is -1/11 or -1/9 depending on the hardway bet. For the dealer, the EV is either 10/11 or 8/9 as the dealer doesn't lose the bet.
As for the HA on a dealer hardway vs a player hardway, the EV on a hardway for the player is -1/11 or -1/9 depending on the hardway bet. For the dealer, the EV is either 10/11 or 8/9 as the dealer doesn't lose the bet.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
February 23rd, 2012 at 8:17:56 AM
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Quote: boymimboAs for the HA on a dealer hardway vs a player hardway, the EV on a hardway for the player is -1/11 or -1/9 depending on the hardway bet. For the dealer, the EV is either 10/11 or 8/9 as the dealer doesn't lose the bet.
What? They get to keep the losing base bet???
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:12:12 AM
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Quote: YoDiceRoll11What? They get to keep the losing base bet???
No, he's saying they aren't risking anything since it's your money. So if the bet loses, they have lost nothing. If the bet wins, they win big, hence the +EV.
It's a matter of perspective. I don't necessarily agree with this perspective...if you compare it to giving the dealer the tip straight up, then it's of course the exact some -EV as the player.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:18:22 AM
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Quote: ewjones080To be considered a really good player that all the dealers love, you'd need to be tipping about $40 an hour.. that comes to $10 an hour per dealer. That's at my place though, where we average $12 an hour in tips.. Bigger casinos might be a little more.
You must be talking about the whole table tipping at a $40/hour rate, not just one player?
10 spots at table... thats $4 per player, which a dollar every 15 minutes. I probably place a bet for the boys at about that rate on a craps table.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 23rd, 2012 at 12:12:41 PM
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No I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying that's to be one of the dealers favorite players. You'll still be respected if you tip less. But if you throw in a 50 center at the end of your session then dealers hate you and that's a slap in the face.
February 23rd, 2012 at 1:05:15 PM
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Quote: MakingBookI just read the $40 p/hour tip suggestion. Are you freaking nuts!
Going forward, I will NEVER tip another dealer for the rest of my life.
Hey dealers- go find a job that pays a living wage; or just quit- there are tons of people ready to fill your spot.
Hmmm ... sounds like you have figured out a way to rationalize and justify being a flea.
*golf clap*
Just curious: how much did you tip prior to having this epiphany?
"What, me worry?"
February 23rd, 2012 at 5:33:52 PM
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I would rather be resented for being an absolute cheap prick than be resented for just being stingy.
No more tips unless I get exceptional service.
No more tips unless I get exceptional service.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 23rd, 2012 at 10:08:16 PM
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I disagree.
If you are a regular at a casino, tipping will help ensure that the boys take care of you.
If you are a regular at a casino, tipping will help ensure that the boys take care of you.
"What, me worry?"
February 23rd, 2012 at 10:31:00 PM
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Quote: MrVI disagree.
If you are a regular at a casino, tipping will help ensure that the boys take care of you.
One would hope!
Seriously, with so many bets out there, some mistakes are bound to be made. Having a dealer look out for you is always a plus.
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:38:32 PM
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Exactly so.
I have seen a variety of errors go in my favor, presumably because I tip.
For example: not taking down a come bet when a shooter rolls a natural on a come out after making his point.
Or leaving a hard way bet up (especially if it's two way) if the bet shows soft.
To receive, you must first give.
I have seen a variety of errors go in my favor, presumably because I tip.
For example: not taking down a come bet when a shooter rolls a natural on a come out after making his point.
Or leaving a hard way bet up (especially if it's two way) if the bet shows soft.
To receive, you must first give.
"What, me worry?"
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:53:33 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEights
...if you compare it to giving the dealer the tip straight up, then it's of course the exact some -EV as the player.
This is what I was thinking.
February 24th, 2012 at 12:03:44 AM
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YES EXACTLY! See, where I used to play craps, there were very few people there (which I liked). And the other one or two people would never tip, so I saw myself as the person that would have to tip the crew. Since I wanted to put them at about $10/hr I would tip $30 or so (since it was half a game and a three man crew).
Obviously there's no specific amount you should go by, it's just what I go by. I'm always trying to be mathematical with the tips. Obviously psychology goes into it as well. As another poster mentioned he likes making the bet so the dealer is rooting for the player. If players couldn't make dealer bets the toke rate would probably drop dramatically. People simply don't like handing in tips.
As for the betting of hardways or other props for the dealer, that bet could just as easily been handed in, so I still see that as the dealer risking a dollar, and the house edge would still apply. I suppose that all depends on how you look at it.
Wow I really confused people here.. sorry folks.
Obviously there's no specific amount you should go by, it's just what I go by. I'm always trying to be mathematical with the tips. Obviously psychology goes into it as well. As another poster mentioned he likes making the bet so the dealer is rooting for the player. If players couldn't make dealer bets the toke rate would probably drop dramatically. People simply don't like handing in tips.
As for the betting of hardways or other props for the dealer, that bet could just as easily been handed in, so I still see that as the dealer risking a dollar, and the house edge would still apply. I suppose that all depends on how you look at it.
Wow I really confused people here.. sorry folks.
February 24th, 2012 at 12:06:12 AM
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Quote: thecesspitYou must be talking about the whole table tipping at a $40/hour rate, not just one player?
10 spots at table... thats $4 per player, which a dollar every 15 minutes. I probably place a bet for the boys at about that rate on a craps table.
YES EXACTLY! See, where I used to play craps, there were very few people there (which I liked). And the other one or two people would never tip, so I saw myself as the person that would have to tip the crew. Since I wanted to put them at about $10/hr I would tip $30 or so (since it was half a game and a three man crew).
Obviously there's no specific amount you should go by, it's just what I go by. I'm always trying to be mathematical with the tips. Obviously psychology goes into it as well. As another poster mentioned he likes making the bet so the dealer is rooting for the player. If players couldn't make dealer bets the toke rate would probably drop dramatically. People simply don't like handing in tips.
As for the betting of hardways or other props for the dealer, that bet could just as easily been handed in, so I still see that as the dealer risking a dollar, and the house edge would still apply. I suppose that all depends on how you look at it.
Wow I really confused people here.. sorry folks.
February 24th, 2012 at 6:49:49 AM
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I wouldn't confuse dealer error with them looking out for you.
I doubt a dealer would risk admonishment from the box or pit or eye
To cheat for you just cause you threw him a bone once in a while.
I doubt a dealer would risk admonishment from the box or pit or eye
To cheat for you just cause you threw him a bone once in a while.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 24th, 2012 at 7:43:53 AM
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ewjones080 -
Thanks for clearing it up.
I, and I assume many others, thought you meant that EACH PLAYER should be tipping each dealer in the $10/hour range.
Getting the entire table to tip so that the dealers make an average of $10 in tokes is far more reasonable.
On the other hand, I don't think you should feel like it's your duty to make up the difference if the other players are stiffs. On the contrary, lead by example - or by reminder. Nothing wrong with another player helping the dealers by soft hustling those tokes.
Thanks for clearing it up.
I, and I assume many others, thought you meant that EACH PLAYER should be tipping each dealer in the $10/hour range.
Getting the entire table to tip so that the dealers make an average of $10 in tokes is far more reasonable.
On the other hand, I don't think you should feel like it's your duty to make up the difference if the other players are stiffs. On the contrary, lead by example - or by reminder. Nothing wrong with another player helping the dealers by soft hustling those tokes.
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