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NokTang
NokTang
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
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August 22nd, 2012 at 3:53:28 AM permalink
Quote: progrocker

It sets a dangerous precedent if Wynn wins this.



Any update on the case itself, the answer, service of those accused etc.? Thank you.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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August 22nd, 2012 at 5:29:47 AM permalink
After the usual motions for shortening or extending time to file responses, an Answer was filed in Department 10 on August 6th.
Each of the two defendants is represented by the same counsel at this stage of the proceedings: C. Stanley Hunterton, Esq.
Harley
Harley
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March 7th, 2013 at 9:09:22 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Alan's interview with the retired agent was interesting, but the interviewee's comments only seems to muddle the issue of illegality.

It is claimed that a throw is deemed legal only if the dice are "tossed in the air, hit the table surface at least once and hit the back wall."

That might be the criteria for a casino to accept a throw, but as to whether a player can be prosecuted for not meeting these criteria is a different question entirely.

I am unaware of any Nevada statute or regulation that spells out the above criteria as defining the requirements for a legal throw; if there are any, please point them out.

I am also unaware of any appellate Nevada criminal cases wherein the courts have wrestled with, clarified and ruled on this thorny issue: I rather doubt that any Nevada court has specified the three mentioned criteria as being essential for a roll of the dice to be deemed legal.

In the absence of either statute, regulation or court case, the issue is wide open for interpretation, which should provide very fertile ground indeed for a competent defense attorney to successfully defend against a claim of cheating.



AMEN Mr V !! .... I concur with you and I do not agree with Alan Mendelson's deductions in his article found here: http://www.alanbestbuys.com/id139.html
.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
Harley
Harley
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March 7th, 2013 at 11:51:51 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I couldn't find a video on Youtube of a dice slider. Which is surprising as one can usually find anything on there. Dice manipulation, and setting yes, but no die sliding on the same side across the table.



Quote: MathExtremist

It's not just that, he appears to be ruling out even physical manipulations which don't conform to his predetermined conception of "the only way dice control can possibly work" (that being a gentle blanket roll).

I don't know that I'd immediately be looking for extra-sensory bases for influence, because there is no plausible model for how that would work, but there are plausible models for physical bias that aren't "roll the dice gently on axis". They've been discussed numerous times. Watch two game protection consultants kill 6s with a well-executed slide:

Bill Zender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdOQUWzPzKg
Sal Piacente: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Jz9UenEPg ....

.... that is simply my opinion .... Ciao, Harley ... Link = http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/
NokTang
NokTang
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May 30th, 2013 at 4:05:03 PM permalink
At some point, have we reached it?, the Wynn will have to turn over or produce the video of the alleged sliding. Since it's the Wynn and big and real money involved, it's one "youtube" I'd like to watch. Anyone have insight on this? Have they sent it to the court/defendant and is it public information and will it be uploaded to youtube?
MrV
MrV
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May 30th, 2013 at 4:20:05 PM permalink
Quote: NokTang

At some point, have we reached it?, the Wynn will have to turn over or produce the video of the alleged sliding. Since it's the Wynn and big and real money involved, it's one "youtube" I'd like to watch. Anyone have insight on this? Have they sent it to the court/defendant and is it public information and will it be uploaded to youtube?



I doubt it will ever go up on youtube.

Certainly it will be "discoverable evidence" that the casino will have to turn over to counsel for the defendants, but they won't be allowed to post it in the public domain.

The tape is the only real "proof" Wynn has: no tape, no case.
"What, me worry?"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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May 30th, 2013 at 5:08:37 PM permalink
I doubt how enforceable a protective order will be.

Someone somewhere could make a mint ... and probably will.
Face
Administrator
Face
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May 30th, 2013 at 6:04:17 PM permalink
Quote: MrV


The tape is the only real "proof" Wynn has: no tape, no case.



I've seen it, so it exists. Or should I say it "existed at one time".

I'm not lawyer; I'm not even good at Nevada Gaming Law, but I see only three scenarios -

1. Typical Casino high roller treatment, a "don't bother these guys" type of policy ignorance. Because these guys weren't sly or sneaky or even good at all. Individually, any one of the rolls could've been a fluke. Seen in its entirety, it's as obvious as a punch in the mouth.

2. Hyper ignorance and severe knowledge deficiency. If no call came from upstairs and it's solely on the crew, then that crew is beyond asleep at the wheel. They were legally dead.

3. The casino was on it but allowed it as part of an intel gathering procedure. A sort of "let's see everything these guys got and who's all in on it without spooking them".

I'm interested to see which way this one goes.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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May 31st, 2013 at 12:07:57 AM permalink
One simple rule stating the dice must be thrown with the palm up would eliminate all this talk. If it's cheating sliding based on no law or rule implicitly, then I hope they keep the money. You shouldn't be accused of cheating in cases where it could be clearly defined as cheating and is not defined. If it is cheating, then Wynn cheated the state of revenue if they knowingly allowed it to happen. From a novice standpoint on crap, I think the whole craps table should be reinvented to eliminate a lot of the problems with craps.
I am a robot.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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May 31st, 2013 at 2:18:56 AM permalink
Has the actual wording of the lawsuit ever been made public? I've often suspected that the dealers were involved and would the lawsuit be one of a conspiracy to defraud?

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