Making dont come with come bet with odds.

I was reading a book about craps strategies when I came across one called the 5 count. This has one making don't come bets with come bets until 4 numbers plus the point is established then add the odds to the come bets. I was thinking why not make a don't come with a come bet with odds from the start. So the point is rolled, make a don't come along with a come bet with odds and establish 3 come bets with odds along with the point. If a number hits, I win money on just the odds, but isn't that the idea of come bets to get full odds with no house advantage? This way I get odds without as some people say "pay rent" to get the odds. Am I missing something in thinking this is a good idea??? I usually play pass line with odds and three come bets with odds. At a $5 table this would save me $15 per hand and $30 per hand at a $10 table if the dice go bad.

The house edge comes in when the bets are on the come/dc, before they get moved to the number. If a 12 rolls, you lose the come but push the don't. It's the same as betting the doey-don't on the comeout.

Quote: Clownkeeper

This has one making don't come bets with come bets until 4 numbers plus the point is established then add the odds to the come bets.

Thou shall not hedge thy bets! Thou shall keep my commandments at all times and in all respects. On a This Line or on a That Line, thou shalt keep my commandments. When your odds are on or when your odds are off, thou shall keep my commandments. Thou shall not hedge thy bets. If the table minimum is not to thine liking then passeth by that table and attempteth not to make a hedge.

Bad Idea. This has been discussed over an over again here. You are actually risking more money on bets with edges so you have a higher expected loss than by playing it straight.

Don't do it. Or Do it. Just don't do both.

The "5 count" was thought up by someone who believes that they and a select few others can set and influence the dice. I believe he calls them "rhythmic shooters" so if they make it past the "5 count" you then place your odds. Only problem is the 12 (house ALWAYS has the edge) and then the biggest problem if you believe like I do that dice can't be influenced to any meaningful degree... then you have a 1 in 6 chance of a 7 immediately after you have passed the count and put up all your odds. I often shoot 3,4, or more points, and if I were setting the dice you might say that I was "controlling the dice" but I also very often 7 out right after establishing a point. Go figure. I do enjoy playing new strategies and have a new way to play every time I go. (much to my wife's chagrin) Take strategies or winning schemes for what they are worth... NOTHING! If you found one that worked are you going to write a book and tell the whole world or quietly take the casinos for all you can before they figure it out.....

If you can influence the dice, I'd think you'd want to get as much money down as soon as possible to maximize your action on your own rolls vs. the action on other shooters who presumably can't alter the odds...

>If you can influence the dice, I'd think you'd want to get as much money down as soon as possible ...
If
The plain and simple truth is that those who claim this power also have some very convoluted reasons for not doing the obvious things to take advantage of it.

Scoblete, the alleged father of the five count, is a hack of the lowest sort.

The five count is rubbish.

The theory on the five-count is that, assuming non-random throwing, one can determine whether an unfamiliar shooter is likely practicing some form of dice control. It is similar to betting on someone pitching a baseball: if they throw four straight strikes, it may be worth betting on "strike".

It is a silly idea. At its base, it is just a short-hand, and logic would seem to dictate that if someone was a "chicken-feeder", that throwing any number of non-sevens would just be an expected random distribution as opposed to some indiscernible skill.

If you do believe in dice control, I think a better (but similar) strategy would be to watch how the shooter sets the dice and how they fly through the air and land, and bet accordingly.

Quote: MrV

Scoblete, the alleged father of the five count, is a hack of the lowest sort.

The five count is rubbish.

His Speed Count for blackjack isn't that great either, but Frank did coin the term "ploppy".