Poll

9 votes (30%)
16 votes (53.33%)
5 votes (16.66%)

30 members have voted

DrEntropy
DrEntropy
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
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July 25th, 2011 at 7:57:07 AM permalink
In the past, I have been playing pass line + 1 or 2 come bets. I would not maximize odds, because that would put me beyond my comfort level (i.e. risk of ruin for my desired time of play). Lately, I have been switching to the lower eV play of just playing the pass line and taking maximum (345 where I play) odds. This gets me to about the same risk of ruin (=excitement?) level, but with less cost per hour in the long run. I thought it might be too boring (what, only one number!) but I actually enjoy watching the action at the table, and this makes it easier to do that! Sure if a shooter gets on a long roll without hitting his point I have to watch everyone pull in winnings while I sit there, BUT I also get to cringe less when a shooter wipes out the board with big red without repeating a single point number.

For those who like the numbers (120 rolls per hour):
$10 pass line better + 1 come bet, double odds. From Simulation: eV = -$9/hour, standard deviation = ~$250 per root hour
$10 Pass line, 345 odds: eV = -$5/hour, standard deviation ~ $300 per root hour.

What do you think, anyone else do this? Too boring?


(Full Disclosure: I do very occasionally throw in few hardways and crappy bets like that. Also when I have the dice, I up the action by placing numbers or with come bets, but otherwise its pass line + max odds.)
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
Alan
Alan
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:10:33 AM permalink
When I'm playing right, that's about what I do, have one bet working on the pass line w/odds(maybe not max though) and a possible place 6/8 for a whopping $6 each. Sure it's somewhat boring, but I'm obviously a conservative gambler(if I'm even a gambler at all). Typically when I play wrong, I have more action going. I try to have 3 don't bets up and working, I replace any bet that gets picked off until the 7-out. That's probably boring for a lot of folks, too.

I voted other.
Clownkeeper
Clownkeeper
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:46:23 AM permalink
I would think too boring and watching others gather winnings on other numbers would not be fun IMO. Why dont you just place minimum place bets for the 6 and 8?? So at a $5 table you would be risking $12 dollars more and at least getting a little more action. I think this better than playing the middle bets.
Fortune favors the bold
bushman
bushman
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:54:31 AM permalink
I usually do a PL + Single Odds (5 + 5/6) and Place 6 and 8 (6 each) or Place 6 and 9 (if point 8) or Place 5 and 8 (if point 6). It works for me. On occasion (very rarely) I will go to PL + 3/4/5 (5 + 3/4/5) and increase Place bets to 12 each. Very rarely, though. I used to be a PL and Double Odds, or, if I can find a 1 dollar table, I will max out odds (Jokers Wild, here I come in about a week.)
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
teddys
teddys
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July 25th, 2011 at 9:10:09 AM permalink
Quote: DrEntropy

What do you think, anyone else do this? Too boring?

Heck, no! You are playing the best possible way you can play. There's plenty of variance, too. Craps players are action junkies. The way I see it, placing multiple come bets is like playing "speed craps" -- you are getting more pass line bets in at once, instead of one per shooter. But each one of those bets carries a 1.41% house edge on the flat bet. It's throwing your money away faster.

I'm sure most craps players would like to be able to play your way. I'm trying to get there myself :)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
MrRalph
MrRalph
Joined: Jun 8, 2011
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July 25th, 2011 at 12:07:01 PM permalink
I to have been trying to be disciplined and play one number with max odds. But it is true, it is hard to watch when the 5 and 9 hit over and over and you are the 6. But the math never lies in the long run even though our exposure to it is small due to the time we get to spend at the table the pass line with max odds if your bankroll allows it is the best way to play. I just wish I could convince myself of that. Frank Scoblete wrote a great article about this subject, it was either in casino Player or on Casino city times web site. Basically he said your game is between you and the number your on. Nothing else matters nor has anything to do with your game so if you are on the 6 and the 8 comes up 4 times in a row it does not matter because it has no effect on your bet. I know it sounds good on paper but you can certainly rest assured that we will be kicking ourselves for not placing the 8 as well. But it is true when the 7 shows we will be slightly less annoyed as we will have lost less money. If you can afford come bets with odds ( do not make them if you cannot put the odds behind them) then that is also good but your bankroll and stomach has to be able to take the hits until you get that roll that makes your night or trip.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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July 25th, 2011 at 12:41:21 PM permalink
actually I think the way you are playing is best, but I don't seem to be able to resist adding come bets at some point. If the table gets hot it is truly what I have come for, that possibility of being there with those bets up when it happens. Since past events do not matter, there is no way to predict when the table gets hot, you've got to take your chances.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
thecesspit
thecesspit
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July 25th, 2011 at 12:47:41 PM permalink
There is no easy way to say any betting strategy in craps is "best", just an awareness of what suits you, and what is a truly horrible way to bet (like the Big 6, or only playing the centre action).

I sometimes play line and double odds. I sometimes play line, single odds and single number. Sometimes I'll press, sometimes I'll take what comes. I sometime play line, single odds and 2 come bets with odds. I sometimes play line and full odds. Depends on my bank roll, table limits, the table and my mood.

If I'm settled in for a while, I tend to be more conservative, and just enjoy my time there.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
DrEntropy
DrEntropy
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
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July 25th, 2011 at 12:51:32 PM permalink
Quote: MrRalph

Frank Scoblete wrote a great article about this subject, it was either in casino Player or on Casino city times web site.


I think this is what you are referring to:
http://www.casinocenter.com/?p=2022
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
Alan
Alan
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
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July 25th, 2011 at 1:00:02 PM permalink
Quote: DrEntropy

I think this is what you are referring to:
http://www.casinocenter.com/?p=2022



That sure was a wordy way to say "hey, nothing's happened"...LOL It was a fun read though.

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