Craps Question For the Players who Play Both Ways

This is a multi faceted question. I am first curious what everyone here plays when they decide to try their hand at some craps.
However also, I would like to know about those players who alternate between pass and don't pass or come and don't come, how and when they decide what way to play?
I recently began trying out the Don't pass, don't come side of craps and thoroughly enjoy playing it as I do Pass and Come, however I don't want to keep second guessing myself if I should switch in the middle of a session, or just go to the table to play one way, and once that session is over (either win goal or bust out) wait til the next session to switch to the other side. Any insight on what you guys do would be cool and interesting, thank you.

If I notice a table is cold (which it is 90% of the time) I'll just bet a "No-4" for $60. This will win me $30 (plus the $1 vig collected when I win). It's a great way to keep my average high and still do OK while waiting for the table to heat back up.
My best record so far is 8 wins in a row (only like two of those were front-line winner 7's). I also probably could have made more, but I ran out of time and took the bet down after 8 straight wins (I was +$240; total $300 with bringing my bet down)
The rest of the time I just put $5 on the PL and 3/4/5x odds, and place the 6/8 for $12 each (or $24 on one)

I tend to only play place bets unless I'm shooting. Then it's just one PL bet, 2x odds. No Comes.

Early in my craps career, I did shoot from the dark side once. But that was when I still had no real clue what I was doing. The stick announced it loud enough that everyone knew I was doing that. In fact, I had to ask if that was OK.

Because of everything I've been reading here, I might start to play the don'ts on my next trip.

I used to think of the donts as taboo just cause of the vibes sent out at the table when someone was playing them. But I too acquired an interest to play them from reading so much about it at this site. Now I really enjoy it, still can't muster up enough courage to shoot from them though

I only play don't when I am on an empty table, or there are only darkside players (rare). My thinking on shooting alone is that if you win, you get to keep shooting, which is the thing I enjoy the most.

On a table with others, it is more fun to all pull the same direction (the thing I enjoy second most), so I'll switch if a group bellies up to the rail.

I used to switch if multiple shooters in a row were cold, but sure enough, as soon as I did, the dice would heat up. When I switched back, I would always be on the wrong side of the chop. yeesh...

I feel you on the playing with the rest of the table aspect, cause it does get really entertaining when the hooting and hollering begins.

Quote: Knuckleball3

still can't muster up enough courage to shoot from them though

Actually, there is a long and widely held belief that don't bettors who shoot tend to make lots of points and intermediate numbers. No empirical evidence, but I've witnessed that more than enough times and perpetrated such enough times to become convinced.

I used to play only the DP and it is great when the table goes real cold but then you miss out on a hot shooter. Now I just follow the table and switch back to the PL after a shooter makes a point and run a little progression from there. To add some fun I bet any craps on the come-out when I'm switched to the pass line and then parlay if I win. I also hop seven and an eleven if there is a come-out 7 or 11 on the come-out and I'm on the DP also with the parlay. Usually once per session one of my parlays hits once or twice and that is fun. BTW I rolled 4 11's in a row about a month ago and that was sweet. My wife plays similar but also likes to add some 6 and 8's and sisters.

Charting a craps table makes about as much sense as charting a baccarat table.
However, many players form a conclusion based on cheerfulness, number of place bets, etc. and if they determine the table is "hot" they go to the Right Side. If everyone is glum, the chips in the rail seem few, etc. then some players will decide to become Wrong Bettors.

I have no hesitation to shoot from the Dark Side. The stickman will often intone "From the Don't, hoping they won't".

Being a contrarian at an otherwise happy table? Heck its my money and your mood, which do you think I care about the most?

Knuckle, if you're enjoying it, then roll with it. (No pun intended)

Personally, I normally stay with the Pass Line and Come Bets. If the table is warm, hot, or on fire, I'm moving up a progression in my odds on the PL and come. If the table is cold, I'll take a hike. My rule of thumb is 3 losses in a row or three out of four losses and I'm colored in and out for some time.

If I'm throwing the dice and I see people betting the don't pass, well I'm grinning if make the point and they lose (don't we all?) Plus as others stated before, it's a good feeling whenever a point hits and everybody ont he pass line is getting the houses money.

Only went to the dark side on don't pass once and lost. (Figures right?) Might try it again sometime to go dark or don't come if the mood strikes me. The house edge is pretty small comparing between the pass and don't pass come/don't come. Though the lay on 4 or 10 is too much house edge to justify it to me.

As for the dealers, several have privately told me that don't bets usually aren't good tippers. Hence why they will sometimes make light of them. Not to say there aren't good don't tippers out there, I just haven't seen many either.

Again, it's your money, enjoy playing it as you please.

I usually play the Do but try to size the table up by looking at the rail. On occasion after generous hits on place/buy bets I regress and put down a DC bet (no odds). I like it because if the player has hit the point you can have you PL & DC winning on a 7 when the puck and your place bets are off. Mathematically I am sure its terrible but it can be fun without feeling like the table A-hole. If you see me lay a number I swear you should hop it...very bad track record on lay bets.

I have a question for pure darksider's.... Why don't most of you throw the dice? I would say 90% of the perma-don't betters never toss 'em.

Why not shooot from the don't? -- Because it sucks to roll and hit numbers and lose. I WILL sometimes roll from the don't - usually when I'm already ahead or if there are only don't players at the table.

do or don't it don't matter [g]

well, you can lay more on the don't free odds. If you have the cake and want to keep to minimum HE it is slightly better. Reminder, the EV is unchanged.

Also, the dark side is less prone to long streaks of losing against your big bets, if when you lay odds that is your big bet. You are more prone to long losing streaks on the line, but that's a smaller bet. It thus *can* be somewhat less demoralizing, the only reason I sometimes take that route anymore. The difference in HE is squat to me.

What would really keep me on the dark is if everybody on the table would go that side!

It just depends on my mood and how I think the players "look."

Here's the first thing, as we all know, it does not matter mathematically. But last time I had a hot roll it went like this. I like to shoot from the stickman's immediate right. I also do not care to shoot early, I'd rather wait a few turns. So there is an open spot to his right and the dice are one to his left. Perfect table. The shooters near second base were, well, they looked and acted like lumps could not avoid a seven if they threw one die. (that's a joke, son!) So they seven-out fast. Dice come to me as a darksider passed them to me at his turn. Best roll of my short career. I make the fire bet for the table and have 1-2 repeat points in the roll.

Dice go back to the lumps an I switch to DP. You could have used what came next in a movie. Guy walks up and sees me and darksider (who may or may not still acknowlege me after that roll) and says, "wattsamattah, table cold?" I say, "No, he has been DP all the time, I just have a feeling." "Oh," "SEVEN-OUT!"

My thought is that if it doesn't matter go with your gut.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Actually, there is a long and widely held belief that don't bettors who shoot tend to make lots of points and intermediate numbers. No empirical evidence, but I've witnessed that more than enough times and perpetrated such enough times to become convinced.

I was at a crap table a long time ago in Atlantic city. I didn't know much about dice so I decided to play the don't pass line. I was only playing $10.00 per shooter. When it came time for me to shoot, I started to run lucky , hitting every number over and over again and of course the point. At one point , while I was shooting I decided to change my bet to the pass line. The whole table erupted. They were yelling, stay on the don't. One guy threw me a green chip and after I made the next point, a few other people threw me chips to stay on the don't. I rolled for quite awhile and everybody at the table was happy and making money. The more numbers I made the more people were throwing me chips.

O M G all you superstitious morons who believe in cold tables, cold wheels, cold cards, cold dice crack me up. Dice have no memory obviously. If you're sooooo worried about how you'll look to the rest of the table if you bet the don't side, maybe you should go home and hide under your bed. The scolding words of the world must be frightening to you.

Statistically, 7 comes up every 6 rolls. If you bet don't pass, then don't come for 4 rolls without laying odds, then sit back and wait for the 7, you'll do fine. Takes some will power, and it's a small grind, and you can't be susceptible to to frowns of others but you'll do fine. Maybe not as exciting, and you'll have the occasional loss when there's a 7/11 on the comeout, but you'll do fine.

Who cares what other people at the table think of you. Jesus! Man up!

Quote: zippyboy

O M G all you superstitious morons who believe in cold tables, cold wheels, cold cards, cold dice crack me up. Dice have no memory obviously. If you're sooooo worried about how you'll look to the rest of the table if you bet the don't side, maybe you should go home and hide under your bed. The scolding words of the world must be frightening to you.

Statistically, 7 comes up every 6 rolls. If you bet don't pass, then don't come for 4 rolls without laying odds, then sit back and wait for the 7, you'll do fine. Takes some will power, and it's a small grind, and you can't be susceptible to to frowns of others but you'll do fine. Maybe not as exciting, and you'll have the occasional loss when there's a 7/11 on the comeout, but you'll do fine.

Who cares what other people at the table think of you. Jesus! Man up!

You can't win playing craps. You play craps to have fun or you play craps to try and make fast money and leave. Grind, there's no grind in craps. You would lose your shirt if you played the way you described.

But I'd lose it slower than the peeps who cry about cold tables and chase losses, blame dealers and think that girl over there is my lucky charm.

.....

lol... this reminds me of an older gentleman that bets 'No 4' and 'No 10' in atlantic city. if anyone here has played at ceasars or borgata, you've probably seen him. Bearded, thin, older guy that wears race car jacket (or so it looks). He runs around the tables in and out... middle of rolls and screams either NO 4 or NO 10 for a few hundred a pop. As much as it pisses me off, it cracks me up. However, Ive seen him win many times. If Im on a table and he walks up, Im out. The negative energy just bothers me.

One time I just jumped on an empty table myself, which I love best. In and out. I established a point and then fired my money across the board (all numbers). He walk up to my table as I was about to shoot and said NO 4 for 600. I looked at him and said, "Really? Im going to give you a chance to take your bet down now". He looked back at me and said nothing. I said "OK big guy, its me against you, dont say I didnt warn you". I then put a 25 dollar bet up for me and the dealers on the hard 4. First roll.... HARD 4! He put another 600 on the NO 4. I looked at the dealers and said "watch this guys, give me some energy here... four baby four baby". Next roll was a 6, the following roll was a 4! He came back with another 600 on No 4 again. I took down all of my bets, colored up, and left the table with pass bet left up. I told the guy he could finish out my roll and gave him the dice...lol I walked away a winner in many ways. Not sure what he wound up doing as I was out the door in a flash.

That being said, If you only plan to play either the pass or dont pass, I would just play the dont. Although I had the negative energy, it is a smarter bet. 7 is the most probable number out of all combinations. You just need to get passed the come out roll and you will usually be fine.

Quote: WatchMeWin

You just need to get passed the come out roll and you will usually be fine.

That's the hurdle.

-Alan