Yoyomama
Yoyomama
Joined: Oct 11, 2010
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June 21st, 2020 at 6:27:25 AM permalink
Let's say, I was at a casino and won $5000 shooting craps and never went back (vacation). Will I get a W2-G from them?

Let's say, I played BJ and won another $2500, same casino, and don't go back. Will I get a W-2G for both?

I don't want to get to complicated, and I know I can deduct losses from other casinos, but want to know what would generate a W2-G from a casino.

Shooting craps and table games (BJ & 3 card, etc) winnings are based on buy ins and color ups, not an exact science, as opposed to slots that are a matter kept track of by a computer system. Generally, a hand pay ($1200 or more) generates a W2-G. If I won $600 on 2 different machines does that generate a W2-G?

Not interested in sports book or poker cash games or tournaments, just common casino floor games.

I kinda have the above situation now. Traveling a lot and have 7-8 casinos I walked away a winner and most likely won't be returning to before the end of the tax year.

Thanks in advance for you comments.
wilbsmitt
wilbsmitt
Joined: Mar 16, 2015
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June 21st, 2020 at 8:34:22 AM permalink
I'm not an expert, but I believe W2 requirements are based on payouts of 600 to 1 or greater(or some such). The only time that would happen on a craps table would be if you hit the fire bet(5 or 6 numbers, not 4). Large wins(or for that matter any cage transaction) of $10k or more would generate a cash transaction report to the feds, I don't think they match up these cash transaction reports with your individual tax reporting.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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June 21st, 2020 at 10:19:00 AM permalink
It's the 300 to 1 wins. The 6 number Fire Bet would qualify, the 5 number would not.
Casinos may blacklist for counting cards in blackjack if you win $5,000 or more, but they've been known to kick out red chippers with only a couple hundred dollars, and kick out winners (counter or not) in the middle of play with thousands in the stacks in front of them. It's part of that "no winners allowed mentality" the casino may have.

Other table games that have a 300 to 1 payout or better for specific hands will generate a tax form. It has to be a temptation to play for a Royal that pays a $10,000+ progressive.

The 7-7-7 suited winners on Spanish 21 are only 200 to 1 at best so winning $1,000 on a $5 bet, or $5,000 on a $25 bet, shouldn't trigger a tax form.

Slot machines that run on TITOs that can be used from machine to machine shouldn't have a tax consequence unless you win $1200+ on a single spin or single jackpot after a number of free spins. If you get 5 free spins, or 95 free spins, you'll see how much you won during the free spin period. So winning 120,000+ credits on a penny machine on one spin or a series of free spins would generate a tax form. I'm under the impression if your TITO amounted to say $4,000 but you never had a $1200+ jackpot, you could cash your TITO with no tax consequence.

I figure if you can gamble without a tax form, you don't really have to justify the casino win/loss statement at the end of the year.

As far as CTR's, if you bring $20,000 front money to the cage the casino will write up a CTR, and if you leave before you're under $10,001, the casino will write up the other side of the CTR. But since you don't get a copy of it, you can't really use it to document your wins and losses over $10,000. It's not clear if the IRS gets a copy of a CTR form that they would use against you but the forms stick around in the gov't for 5 years.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Jun 21, 2020
wilbsmitt
wilbsmitt
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June 21st, 2020 at 11:52:50 AM permalink
Thanks for that comprehensive clarification CC. I forgot what the 5 and 6 number fire bet payouts were. As an aside, I was on the ACA for my medical insurance, and my wife still is, so I manage my retirement income very closely so as not to exceed(but come very close to) 400% of the poverty level to qualify for ACA premium subsidies(which is not an insignificant amount). So I'm playing craps at The Cromwell when they had the fire bet. I only make a $1 fire bet when I'm shooting. I've made 3 of the #'s when it occurs to me that I'm going to get a 1099 if I hit all 6 which will screw up all my careful planning and cause a huge tax hit at filing time. I was in no position to calculate the financial ramifications so I asked the pit if I could collect the payout on 5 numbers(which would have been $250) if I made it that far, and then surrender any chance at the $2,500 if I hit all 6. I was surprised when he said no since that would have been a no brainer from the casinos financial standpoint, but there must be some rigid rules when administering this game. Ended up making 4 points so it never became an issue, but alerted me to never play any games with possible 1099 issues, unless they were life changing progressives etc.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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June 21st, 2020 at 12:00:36 PM permalink
The casino put down a $1000 win on my year end win/loss statement presumably because I won a $1 fire bet but that never happened, so I don't have any reason to rely on casino win/loss statements. I mean I was probably at the table when a 6 number fire bet won, but I didn't have a bet on it and they credited my player's card with a win anyway even though I was paid nothing. I'm trying to learn how to do a gambling diary in case my wins get serious. I could win 10's of thousands of dollars in one craps session and still not get a tax form. But where am I gonna put it?
Yoyomama
Yoyomama
Joined: Oct 11, 2010
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June 21st, 2020 at 3:18:41 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

The casino put down a $1000 win on my year end win/loss statement presumably because I won a $1 fire bet but that never happened, so I don't have any reason to rely on casino win/loss statements. I mean I was probably at the table when a 6 number fire bet won, but I didn't have a bet on it and they credited my player's card with a win anyway even though I was paid nothing. I'm trying to learn how to do a gambling diary in case my wins get serious. I could win 10's of thousands of dollars in one craps session and still not get a tax form. But where am I gonna put it?



I'm in New York and friends of mine have won the 6 number Fire bet. Once 4 people won $5000 ea on the same Firebet roll. But on the 1000 to 1 wins they stop the game and all the winners need to fill out a tax form and sign it.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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June 21st, 2020 at 3:42:51 PM permalink
Don't forget the $5000 win is still taxable even if they don't report it.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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