WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
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smoothgrh
May 4th, 2020 at 7:58:05 PM permalink
Ive been playing craps on a weekly basis for over 25 years. To me, it is the greatest table game ever created. My concern is that the way we need to play the game will change for at least a year due to the CoronaVirus . Social distancing on the craps table? Doesnt seem possible. What are the whispers on how the game will be played?

I will not play the bubble craps or electronic craps.

I will , however, play in a stadium craps style game. This is how I envision the best possible scenario. If any game inventors are here, I will give you advice on what will work and what players would like..

Live craps table with each roll recorded by video and fed to each player electronic station.... similar to how they do roulette, etc. But the craps table needs to be a real table with new shooters after a roll has ended. This way everyone gets a turn in line... that could be fun. Just like a batter who is up to the plate.. on stage! The dice need to be legitimate and the rolls need to be just like on the craps table. The feed could have 50, 100, 200 player stations playing that roller at once. Shhhiii@@@ttt, you could have people at home playing on their computer via live shooter. You could have 100,000 players on a roller.

And that , my friend, is a million dollar winning game! PM me to discuss my royalties!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
onenickelmiracle
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May 4th, 2020 at 10:05:13 PM permalink
I think the appeal of craps for a casino is you can play craps, but you can't get to the table. My gut is they won't open a craps table.
I am a robot.
charliepatrick
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May 5th, 2020 at 12:38:52 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

...Social distancing on the craps table? Doesnt seem possible...

Social distancing for entertainment venues will be a general problem. It applies to casinos as well as restaurants, theatres, pubs.

I suspect many people won't even think about going out for a while, in the UK several pubs are very worried and possibly a few good ones will fall by the wayside.

I'm guessing that when the restrictions are lifted, it is impractical to keep people apart. They might minimise people touching things (like cards, salt and pepper pots at tables, etc.) but I can't see how they'd work without using chips. (Perhaps all dealers will use gloves.) Dice seems easy, just swap them (and wash them) after each shooter.
AlanMendelson
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May 5th, 2020 at 3:21:10 AM permalink
Limiting three players to a side takes care of social distancing. The real issue is about using chips or replacing chips with electronic betting. That's been discussed in other threads.
SOOPOO
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May 5th, 2020 at 8:35:41 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Limiting three players to a side takes care of social distancing. The real issue is about using chips or replacing chips with electronic betting. That's been discussed in other threads.



It depends on if they mean real social distancing, or social distancing just there to look like they are using social distancing. If you use 6 feet between players, that would mean 6 feet BETWEEN players. So If there is 13 feet of rail space, as an example, you could not fit 3 people there, as people are not 0 feet wide. And not having a buffer over the 6 feet is of course not realistic, because real people move a little to their left, then a little to their right..... Will the aisle behind the table be one way, more than 13 feet wide? If not, people walking to and fro will get into the magic 6 foot zone.

They will enforce some bastardization of social distancing, with some faux cleaning measures,

I wonder if this would work...

"We at Casino X are happily opening for the general public tomorrow. Other than more hand sanitizer being available than before, and allowing patrons who want to wear masks to do so, nothing will be different from before the shutdown. There are public health experts who say that this will put you, the patron, at some increased risk of getting COVID-19. Please enter at your own risk."
Joeman
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May 5th, 2020 at 9:23:41 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

It depends on if they mean real social distancing, or social distancing just there to look like they are using social distancing. If you use 6 feet between players, that would mean 6 feet BETWEEN players. So If there is 13 feet of rail space, as an example, you could not fit 3 people there, as people are not 0 feet wide. And not having a buffer over the 6 feet is of course not realistic, because real people move a little to their left, then a little to their right..... Will the aisle behind the table be one way, more than 13 feet wide? If not, people walking to and fro will get into the magic 6 foot zone.

Yeah, I don't know the exact dimensions of a craps table, but is there anywhere a player can stand at the rail that is at least 6 ft from the stickman or a base dealer? Maybe in the hook, but even that would mean a max of 2 players per table to maintain 6' of separation.

Personally, I would be more wary of touching the dice and chips that everyone and their grandmas have handled than having some dude standing 3' away from me.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
ThatDonGuy
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May 5th, 2020 at 9:24:28 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Limiting three players to a side takes care of social distancing. The real issue is about using chips or replacing chips with electronic betting. That's been discussed in other threads.


If handling chips is an issue, then wouldn't handling dice have the same issue?
DJTeddyBear
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May 5th, 2020 at 9:34:46 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

...
Live craps table with each roll recorded by video and fed to each player electronic station.... similar to how they do roulette, etc. But the craps table needs to be a real table with new shooters after a roll has ended.
...


This already exists. I don稚 know what casino, and it might have been a field trial. But it was mentioned on a thread here a year or so ago.

If I recall correctly, when it痴 your turn to shoot, the credits from your terminal transfers to the terminal up front next to the craps table. At the same time, your old terminal becomes locked out for you to return to when you池e done shooting.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
TDVegas
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May 5th, 2020 at 9:43:00 AM permalink
The entire thing will be a cluster flunk. I知 less worried about handling chips or money or dice or having someone closer to me than 6 feet and more concerned about someone vaping or smoking and blowing diseased fog/smoke into my 奴one.
TomG
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May 5th, 2020 at 9:53:50 AM permalink
So long as casinos offer the opportunity to make bets, it is almost certain they will offer the opportunity to make good bets.
Joeman
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May 5th, 2020 at 10:05:51 AM permalink
Is Covid smoke more contagious (or should that be 'more infectious' -- I never can tell) than regular Covid breath? Don't get me wrong, I'd also rather not be near a smoker, especially in these times, but does the fact that they are also exhaling smoke make it more likely to spread the virus than if they were just breathing normally? (Not trying to snark, I'm genuinely curious.)
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
mcallister3200
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May 5th, 2020 at 10:53:31 AM permalink
Craps tables limited to at most 3 per side, still staffed with three dealers? $25 minimums, likely no box man.
beachbumbabs
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May 5th, 2020 at 10:54:49 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

Is Covid smoke more contagious (or should that be 'more infectious' -- I never can tell) than regular Covid breath? Don't get me wrong, I'd also rather not be near a smoker, especially in these times, but does the fact that they are also exhaling smoke make it more likely to spread the virus than if they were just breathing normally? (Not trying to snark, I'm genuinely curious.)



I'm opening a can of worms to say this, but preliminary data indicates there may be a strong correlation between smoking and being protected from COVID-19. What they're seeing, in general, is that smokers make up between 19%-25% of the population by nationality, but only about 5% of the serious cases requiring hospitalization.

The theory they're exploring is that the cell receptors needed by COVID-19 to unlock the cell for replication are already largely occupied by nicotine, especially in the lungs, and so even when exposed, the virus can't replicate enough to take over the body.

This is why there are already shortages of nicotine patches, gum, and some tobacco, as people look to protect themselves, especially in France, which first reported a possible correlation. But given the health risks of smoking in the first place, the US and others are not emphasizing this possibility, even though they are seeing similar statistics.

All that is to say, I don't see the casinos banning smoking any time soon - it actually might HELP to have a bit of second -hand smoke around, ridiculous as it seems.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
mcallister3200
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SOOPOO
May 5th, 2020 at 10:56:37 AM permalink
The thing about the smoking is that, a business can稚 say the health of their employees and guests is a priority (as they池e saying) and have any integrity to what they池e saying while allowing smoking. The industry has always disproportionately catered to smokers, however, frequently exempt to smoking laws that other businesses aren稚 allowed, no smoking areas if there are any are often a single digit percentage of the floor which would be the direct opposite of the proportion of people smoking.
AlanMendelson
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May 5th, 2020 at 11:11:21 AM permalink
If you take away chairs at a blackjack table or at every other slot machine there isn't six feet either.

The goal is spacing. It appears that six-feet is the spacing in lines but 24 inches is okay for gambling.
rxwine
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May 5th, 2020 at 11:50:00 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

If you take away chairs at a blackjack table or at every other slot machine there isn't six feet either.

The goal is spacing. It appears that six-feet is the spacing in lines but 24 inches is okay for gambling.



Not sure, but IMO, plexiglass between slots, or even crap players on the rails can eliminate the need for 6 feet.

You wouldn't be able to have a crowded craps table because people will still want elbow room.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
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May 5th, 2020 at 12:29:18 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

This already exists. I don稚 know what casino, and it might have been a field trial. But it was mentioned on a thread here a year or so ago.

If I recall correctly, when it痴 your turn to shoot, the credits from your terminal transfers to the terminal up front next to the craps table. At the same time, your old terminal becomes locked out for you to return to when you池e done shooting.



Yes, i mentioned a similar game I saw at Maryland Live last year. However the main craps table had a weird layout and it wasn't a full length table nor did it have the same bounce or dice. It was not like a real craps table and game. Close but not full layout... and the dice seemed weird. It did feed , by video, out to many kiosks for individuals to sit and play electronically. If they will just bring a real crap table out front with a real stick man and real dice, with a flow to the game... this would be EXTRAordinary ! I believe this should be and probably will be the future of craps until covid is resolved. It will be such an easy sell for the game maker to the casinos. Anyone from Interblock here? PM me! Please!!!!

The notion that people wont play stadium style craps is BS. They will absolutely play if there is no other option. Build it and they will come. People love craps.... they want to make money and beat the game.. I dont thing everyone needs to be on a crowded table hangin with the peeps in order to play the game. That is false... imho. People want to make money! or try to at least.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
TDVegas
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beachbumbabs
May 5th, 2020 at 1:50:31 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Quote: Joeman

Is Covid smoke more contagious (or should that be 'more infectious' -- I never can tell) than regular Covid breath? Don't get me wrong, I'd also rather not be near a smoker, especially in these times, but does the fact that they are also exhaling smoke make it more likely to spread the virus than if they were just breathing normally? (Not trying to snark, I'm genuinely curious.)



I'm opening a can of worms to say this, but preliminary data indicates there may be a strong correlation between smoking and being protected from COVID-19. What they're seeing, in general, is that smokers make up between 19%-25% of the population by nationality, but only about 5% of the serious cases requiring hospitalization.

The theory they're exploring is that the cell receptors needed by COVID-19 to unlock the cell for replication are already largely occupied by nicotine, especially in the lungs, and so even when exposed, the virus can't replicate enough to take over the body.

This is why there are already shortages of nicotine patches, gum, and some tobacco, as people look to protect themselves, especially in France, which first reported a possible correlation. But given the health risks of smoking in the first place, the US and others are not emphasizing this possibility, even though they are seeing similar statistics.

All that is to say, I don't see the casinos banning smoking any time soon - it actually might HELP to have a bit of second -hand smoke around, ridiculous as it seems.


Some experts including the CDC have been throwing some cold water on that study. Others have dismissed it as flawed. WHO also has different ideas. For every one that says no....there probably is one that says yes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3055378001
TDVegas
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SanchoPanza
May 5th, 2020 at 1:55:54 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

The thing about the smoking is that, a business can稚 say the health of their employees and guests is a priority (as they池e saying) and have any integrity to what they池e saying while allowing smoking.


That痴 been my argument as well. Governor Sisolak has declared the ONLY criteria for him is health and safety for the strip, workers, visitors and residents once it re-opens. Money, business and 吐reedom are not a part of the health guidelines.

徹h....and smoking, vaping and cigars are ok.

He comes off as a giant hypocrite, imo. It痴 fine if he wants to leave it alone...just don稚 look me in the face and tell me health and safety are the priority....and all else is rescinded.
TumblingBones
TumblingBones
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May 5th, 2020 at 2:30:13 PM permalink
For me the fun comes from two things. One is throwing the dice and the other is the social aspect. I like it when there's a shooter on a streak and everyone is getting excited and encouraging the shooter. Yeah, I've encountered some real a-holes too but all in all I think I've had more positive interactions at a craps table then negative ones. A stadium setting just won't have that. The whole vibe will change.

To be honest, until they have this under control with vaccines and/or treatments, craps just won't be craps and I'll probably have to find some other form of entertainment.
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
Gandler
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May 5th, 2020 at 5:07:41 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Quote: Joeman

Is Covid smoke more contagious (or should that be 'more infectious' -- I never can tell) than regular Covid breath? Don't get me wrong, I'd also rather not be near a smoker, especially in these times, but does the fact that they are also exhaling smoke make it more likely to spread the virus than if they were just breathing normally? (Not trying to snark, I'm genuinely curious.)



I'm opening a can of worms to say this, but preliminary data indicates there may be a strong correlation between smoking and being protected from COVID-19. What they're seeing, in general, is that smokers make up between 19%-25% of the population by nationality, but only about 5% of the serious cases requiring hospitalization.

The theory they're exploring is that the cell receptors needed by COVID-19 to unlock the cell for replication are already largely occupied by nicotine, especially in the lungs, and so even when exposed, the virus can't replicate enough to take over the body.

This is why there are already shortages of nicotine patches, gum, and some tobacco, as people look to protect themselves, especially in France, which first reported a possible correlation. But given the health risks of smoking in the first place, the US and others are not emphasizing this possibility, even though they are seeing similar statistics.

All that is to say, I don't see the casinos banning smoking any time soon - it actually might HELP to have a bit of second -hand smoke around, ridiculous as it seems.



It seems more likley that nicotine rather than smoking is the benefit.

The EU has limited option for tobacco products, you pretty much have to smoke or vape.

In America far better options, smokeless tobacco (banned in EU outside Sweden), nicotine pouches etc.....
DJTeddyBear
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May 6th, 2020 at 8:14:49 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

Quote: DJTeddyBear

This already exists. I don稚 know what casino, and it might have been a field trial. But it was mentioned on a thread here a year or so ago.

If I recall correctly, when it痴 your turn to shoot, the credits from your terminal transfers to the terminal up front next to the craps table. At the same time, your old terminal becomes locked out for you to return to when you池e done shooting.

Yes, i mentioned a similar game I saw at Maryland Live last year. However the main craps table had a weird layout and it wasn't a full length table nor did it have the same bounce or dice. It was not like a real craps table and game. Close but not full layout... and the dice seemed weird. It did feed , by video, out to many kiosks for individuals to sit and play electronically. If they will just bring a real crap table out front with a real stick man and real dice, with a flow to the game... this would be EXTRAordinary ! I believe this should be and probably will be the future of craps until covid is resolved. It will be such an easy sell for the game maker to the casinos. Anyone from Interblock here? PM me! Please!!!!

The notion that people wont play stadium style craps is BS. They will absolutely play if there is no other option. Build it and they will come. People love craps.... they want to make money and beat the game.. I dont thing everyone needs to be on a crowded table hangin with the peeps in order to play the game. That is false... imho. People want to make money! or try to at least.


I just wanted to point out that your complaint with the system was entirely about the physical dice and table and not at all about the kiosk used to place bets.

Hmmmm.... That seems simple enough to fix. 🤪
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
wilbsmitt
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May 6th, 2020 at 8:40:58 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Craps tables limited to at most 3 per side, still staffed with three dealers? $25 minimums, likely no box man.



I can see 2 players per side, no base dealer, no box, stickman handles all bets and payouts, just like the old tub games.
WatchMeWin
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TumblingBones
May 6th, 2020 at 9:38:58 AM permalink
Quote: TumblingBones

For me the fun comes from two things. One is throwing the dice and the other is the social aspect. I like it when there's a shooter on a streak and everyone is getting excited and encouraging the shooter. Yeah, I've encountered some real a-holes too but all in all I think I've had more positive interactions at a craps table then negative ones. A stadium setting just won't have that. The whole vibe will change.

To be honest, until they have this under control with vaccines and/or treatments, craps just won't be craps and I'll probably have to find some other form of entertainment.



You are a PURIST ! An ABSOLUTE PURIST! I love this guy!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
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May 6th, 2020 at 9:43:08 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I just wanted to point out that your complaint with the system was entirely about the physical dice and table and not at all about the kiosk used to place bets.

Hmmmm.... That seems simple enough to fix. 🤪



100% correct. I have no problem with the electronic feed to electronic kiosk station....as long as the results are yrue representations of actual rolls from a LEGITIMATE craps roll from LEGITIMATE DICE AND TABLE!

I do not need a crowd of people all in my space yelling n screaming. I just like to win n leave! One might say 'hit n run'!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
FatGeezus
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May 6th, 2020 at 9:49:30 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Craps tables limited to at most 3 per side, still staffed with three dealers? $25 minimums, likely no box man.



AC casinos eliminated the Box Man about 8 years ago.
TumblingBones
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May 8th, 2020 at 8:58:28 AM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: mcallister3200

Craps tables limited to at most 3 per side, still staffed with three dealers? $25 minimums, likely no box man.



AC casinos eliminated the Box Man about 8 years ago.


That's news to me. If they got rid of them at some point, they sure as hell brought them back. I've never seen a table at Borgata that didn't have one. That includes when I was there this past Feb.
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
AlanMendelson
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May 8th, 2020 at 11:28:19 AM permalink
Caesars Palace was the first casino to eliminate the box. But what happened is that a floor person started to watch over the remaining dealers.

Caesars saved a salary but slowed their game.

I was thinking that tablets or betting screens could be mounted at the three positions on each side of the craps table. Players at those betting screens would take turns shooting.
michael99000
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May 8th, 2020 at 2:12:43 PM permalink
Quote: TumblingBones

Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: mcallister3200

Craps tables limited to at most 3 per side, still staffed with three dealers? $25 minimums, likely no box man.



AC casinos eliminated the Box Man about 8 years ago.


That's news to me. If they got rid of them at some point, they sure as hell brought them back. I've never seen a table at Borgata that didn't have one. That includes when I was there this past Feb.



I believe it was only Resorts that eliminated the boxman
FatGeezus
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May 9th, 2020 at 6:37:33 AM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Quote: TumblingBones

Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: mcallister3200

Craps tables limited to at most 3 per side, still staffed with three dealers? $25 minimums, likely no box man.



AC casinos eliminated the Box Man about 8 years ago.


That's news to me. If they got rid of them at some point, they sure as hell brought them back. I've never seen a table at Borgata that didn't have one. That includes when I was there this past Feb.



I believe it was only Resorts that eliminated the boxman



Gov Christie was the one who allowed the casinos to eliminate Boxmen.

I play at Trop and Golden Nugget during the day. Neither of them have boxmen.

Of course they could add Boxmen during the weekends when the tables are busier.
TDVegas
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May 9th, 2020 at 8:40:13 AM permalink
With a max of 3 or 4 or 6 players on the tables....I can assure you the casinos will look for ways to cut employee costs. A craps table was already a dinosaur in terms of manpower to operate it. This virus and restrictions just sent it over the edge.

If I was running a casino...I would be looking at all the latest and greatest electronic games coming out of Interblock, Aruze and any number of other manufacturers....and see how fast I can get them on the floor.
Yoyomama
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May 10th, 2020 at 6:26:27 AM permalink
I like 3 to a side for awhile. Hopefully that will eliminate the non playing spectators. I am not concerned about the chips or dice. Simply washing hands before and after will take care of that. Handy hand sanitizer will help. Now if people can start covering coughs and sneezes into their elbow, that would be awesome! Saw a poker player cough into his hand and then pick up cards.

When it come to hygiene, most people leave a lot to be desired.
TumblingBones
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May 10th, 2020 at 1:00:28 PM permalink
Coughs and sneezes are just the visible tip of the iceberg. Just being in close proximity to an asymptomatic carrier for an extended time can do it. Only solution I can see is do as they did in Macau and have everyone wearing a face mask. Not sure how that would go over here in the US. For a start, it would make it hard to get drunk while playing.
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
ChumpChange
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May 10th, 2020 at 1:16:20 PM permalink
The problem with craps "machines" is that they are slot machines and subject to the IRS on various wins and/or cashouts, and they probably will have a $99 table max. I'm kind of wondering if tablets or touchscreens at an actual craps table reclassifies that as a "machine" too. There's gotta be a difference between going cashless and calling the table game a "machine." I can bet the ATMs where you load your redesigned Player's Card with cash to play table games is gonna be infected, and it's just gonna make the casino's Annual Player Win/Loss Statements that much more accurate. Do you really want that?
ChumpChange
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May 10th, 2020 at 1:18:55 PM permalink
Quote: TumblingBones

Coughs and sneezes are just the visible tip of the iceberg. Just being in close proximity to an asymptomatic carrier for an extended time can do it. Only solution I can see is do as they did in Macau and have everyone wearing a face mask. Not sure how that would go over here in the US. For a start, it would make it hard to get drunk while playing.



I got the sneeze and the sniffles while walking down the freezer aisle of a WalMart yesterday while wearing a mask. Woke up today with a runny nose.
TDVegas
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May 10th, 2020 at 9:36:11 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

The problem with craps "machines" is that they are slot machines and subject to the IRS on various wins and/or cashouts, and they probably will have a $99 table max. I'm kind of wondering if tablets or touchscreens at an actual craps table reclassifies that as a "machine" too. There's gotta be a difference between going cashless and calling the table game a "machine." I can bet the ATMs where you load your redesigned Player's Card with cash to play table games is gonna be infected, and it's just gonna make the casino's Annual Player Win/Loss Statements that much more accurate. Do you really want that?


Typically...any game that takes money thru a slot is classified as a slot machine and is subject to the $1,200 hand pay rule. Roll to win craps is an actual craps table and the dice are physically rolled. The issue is your money is inserted into a slot and loaded on the terminal. As such...the $1,200 limit likely applies.

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