Bad Table / Too many 7 outs

Hi Friends,

This forum is a good one, thank you.

My questions are around what to do on a table that is not winning / not winning as much as you like.

Most people say, “get up from the table”, which is the best advice, I have no doubt.

However, for me, it isn’t that simple. As I’ve mentioned before, I only go to Vegas to play craps for 1 long weekend out of the year. Usually I stay three nights over Labor Day weekend. No wives and kids. Just Daddy time.

So, all my action for the year has to take place during these three evenings. So, getting up / leaving the casino and not playing anymore is really not an option. Finding another table/casino is an option. But, Labor Day weekend is crazy, and I like to stick to the 5 dollar minimum tables with 10X odds. Those can become hard to find as the night goes on. So, I like to stay grandfathered in at $5 minimum.

So, does anyone have any strategies for sticking with a slow or bad table and not losing your shirt till it heats up?

I normally play straight 3 point Molly with max odds (which is great on a 10X odds table). And as we all know, sometimes your just this close to going on a wild long roll that can add $500+ back in your bankroll.

Does anyone know when to take the action down to only playing the pass line or maybe just covering one number?

Or, does anyone go to the dark side.

Is there a good “formula” you use or is it just gut feel for a table. I have read that some people base it on the “looks” of the roller.

Thanks!!!

Quote: MrCraps550

Hi Friends,

This forum is a good one, thank you.

My questions are around what to do on a table that is not winning / not winning as much as you like.

Most people say, “get up from the table”, which is the best advice, I have no doubt.

However, for me, it isn’t that simple. As I’ve mentioned before, I only go to Vegas to play craps for 1 long weekend out of the year. Usually I stay three nights over Labor Day weekend. No wives and kids. Just Daddy time.

So, all my action for the year has to take place during these three evenings. So, getting up / leaving the casino and not playing anymore is really not an option. Finding another table/casino is an option. But, Labor Day weekend is crazy, and I like to stick to the 5 dollar minimum tables with 10X odds. Those can become hard to find as the night goes on. So, I like to stay grandfathered in at $5 minimum.

So, does anyone have any strategies for sticking with a slow or bad table and not losing your shirt till it heats up?

I normally play straight 3 point Molly with max odds (which is great on a 10X odds table). And as we all know, sometimes your just this close to going on a wild long roll that can add $500+ back in your bankroll.

Does anyone know when to take the action down to only playing the pass line or maybe just covering one number?

Or, does anyone go to the dark side.

Is there a good “formula” you use or is it just gut feel for a table. I have read that some people base it on the “looks” of the roller.

Thanks!!!

Its like the feeling you get when flipping a quarter.

Sometimes you are right.

Sometimes you are wrong.

There are lots of formulas for winning at craps. They just are as worthless as systems for flipping quarters

Quote: MrCraps550

...I only go to Vegas to play craps for 1 long weekend out of the year. Usually I stay three nights over Labor Day weekend. No wives and kids. Just Daddy time...

It is important to understand the reason why you play. Do you consider your gambling losses an entertainment expense? If so, then you should do what makes you happy with the understanding that the longer you expose your money to any action on a negative expectation game, the more likely it is that you will lose. If you only want to bet Pass line, then consider taking breaks if three shooters in a row fail to make a point. It's okay to keep your spot at the rail and only throw out a $1 hardway every now and then to keep your drink service going while you wait for someone to make a point, or for the dice to come back to you.

Otherwise, consider switching to Don't Pass. You don't have to lay odds. It keeps your variance down if risk of ruin is a concern. At the end of the day, none of the bets have a positive expectation. You are the underdog every time.

Quote: Ayecarumba

only throw out a $1 hardway every now and then to keep your drink service going while you wait for someone to make a point, or for the dice to come back to you.

That is the time to make toke bets, the dealers will remember you which helps with any subsequent grandfathering. I'd put the one dollar on the line though, not the hardways.

Quote: ayecarumba

Otherwise, consider switching to Don't Pass. You don't have to lay odds.

That would be my advice. You still have action and the table just might remain cold for awhile.

I've found it beneficial to leave the table when someone is getting on my nerves. Also, you might find it better to avoid playing at an empty table because a full one will play at a slower pace and increase your time on the table for your rating.

There is no way to alter your luck. If you don't want to lose your shirt then put a smaller portion of your bankroll into play and/or bring more than one shirt.

Quote: Ayecarumba

only throw out a $1 hardway every now and then to keep your drink service going while you wait for someone to make a point, or for the dice to come back to you.

Quote: FleaStiff

That is the time to make toke bets, the dealers will remember you which helps with any subsequent grandfathering. I'd put the one dollar on the line though, not the hardways.

You have to bet the table minimum ($5-$15) to make the line bet. Also, you can't pull it down after your drink comes like the hardway... Yes, I am that cheap.

I've started betting the occasional DP when the table is running cold. Entertainment suggestion only. I'm not that good a craps player to offer advice. However:

Probably sounds crazy, but if you like a 3 point molly, and the table is bad, what if you start with a DP, then put a nickel on the come. If the shooter PSOs, both your bets win, right? If the come bet travels, put another come bet up. If the 7 comes, 2 win, one loses. If your 2nd come goes up too, you have some hedging in place. Place odds as you like.

Just a thought to get through a bad table with less loss and keep it fun.

If this is spectacularly bad advice, good craps players, please feel free to correct anything I have wrong.

Quote: Ayecarumba

You have to bet the table minimum ($5-$15) to make the line bet.

You are correct, IF the bet is for you. Dealers do not enforce minimum bet rules for Toke bets.

I wanna try DP with triple odds up to twice per shooter, then go right-side.

Quote: ChumpChange

I wanna try DP with triple odds up to twice per shooter, then go right-side.

I often do the exact opposite.

Quote: beachbumbabs

If this is spectacularly bad advice, good craps players, please feel free to correct anything I have wrong.

Your little strategy here would work if a player can definitely say the next roll is going to be an immediate point,seven-out or almost immediate PSO

this is the fallacy that because the table *was* cold, it will continue to be cold. Of course, if the future on a Craps table was indeed predictable, we could all come up with some pretty good ways to get rich

in fact though I advise for superstitious reasons* against switching sides in craps - starting with rightside play and switching to dark side or vice versa - if a player has never tried that, it is probably good to go through the experience at least once. Usually you will be struck by how you just can't seem to guess which way the table is going to go. The frustration of it will establish for the player the utter foolishness of declaring whether a table is hot or cold.

*admitting that just to establish that my instinctive notions are just as flawed as anyone else's

You are in Vegas with 219 craps tables. If you feel the one you are at is cold and dont want to stop playing then find a new table.

So, I guess my follow up question for everyone is how do you know when a table is bad. Is a gut feel? Or some amount of money/percentage lost? Or some complex calculations?

The thing about craps is, you can bet on any possible result. Hot and cold are relative - DP wins when pass line doesn't. You can even bet the 12 a couple different ways. However, since all bets except odds behind don't pay true odds, you're always subject to the HE or -EV.

as BBB said, not such thing as a cold craps table. If you are losing then you just made the wrong bets. You might have just lost all of your money but someone on the other end just doubled their money. I have been on many tables where I lost money or broke even on but the person next to me won a ton of money because they were hopping the right numbers and betting heavy on the inside and they just happened to be guessing correctly.

Quote: MrCraps550

So, I guess my follow up question for everyone is how do you know when a table is bad.

You don't. You never can. You never will. You can look back and know 'That was bad' You can't look forward and say 'this will be bad, or good'

I know that here I am surrounded by dice Atheists, but I just gotta say this. Since the laws of physics are not suspended when you pick up a pair of dice, why do you not attempt at learning to throw the dice? You may now suspend me!

Quote: DeMango

I know that here I am surrounded by dice Atheists, but I just gotta say this. Since the laws of physics are not suspended when you pick up a pair of dice, why do you not attempt at learning to throw the dice? You may now suspend me!

I have the worst muscle memory of anyone I know. My wife and kids routinely beat me (badly) whenever we play HORSE.

BBB, the best way to play craps when the table is cold: DONT BET. You can watch the action on sideline and keep your spot. Rating keeps coming too. Also the drink.
Can you predict the outcome at craps table? I could but I AM NOT TELLING.

Quote: speedycrap

BBB, the best way to play craps when the table is cold: DONT BET.

LOL
absolutely wrong in so many ways
THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR OPINION ON IT, since that is all it is, JUST an opinion
as worthless as the next one(s)

Quote: speedycrap

You can watch the action on sideline and keep your spot. Rating keeps coming too.

LOL

Quote: speedycrap

I could but I AM NOT TELLING.

dime a dozen

Learn to lay either the 4 or 10 after the points been established. Then add up to 2 Don’t Come Bets for $15 each. Remove your Lay bet after the first Don’t Come bet is established. Or leave it up if the 4’s or 10’s haven’t appeared in awhile