ALL|TALL|SMALL Bet

Sorry if this has been posted in the wrong area.

Hello Wizards, My name is Justin and I am in demanding need for your expert help.
I am faced with a very serious dilemma and need your expertise.
Last night along with many nights of playing craps I am encountering this situation 4 to 5 time per day.

Last night I wagered $100/$100/$100 on the bonus craps ALL|TALL|SMALL bet.
The TALL was made and I was paid $3000 and still up to win.

The SMALL had every number rolled accept for the 2 Crap.

Now the million dollar question?

I'm in the middle of a bridge with
* $18,000 on one side if the 2 gets rolled.
* $0 if the Seven gets rolled.
* Current point was 6 and it has been made and it's a new come out roll.

What do I do?

I've thought about and also tried HOP SEVENS for $500 each (1,6 - 2,5 - 3,4).
I've also thought about and tried betting the PASSLINE and COME bets.
I've also thought about but never tried $18,000 on DON'T PASS LINE + HOP SEVENS for $6000 ($2000 each) + Place all the numbers 4,5,6,8,9,10 for $2000 each (Max Bet).
I've wasted quite a few opportunities because I let it just go and the seven would wipe out the $18k opportunity.

I'm faced with this situation at least 1-5 times pretty much every time I play at the craps table and I feel I can cash in on this opportunity.

I need expert advise. What do I do?

Forget I posted this.

Quote: fengshui

...$18,000 on one side if the 2 gets rolled.
* $0 if the Seven gets rolled...What do I do?

I get it. If a 2 comes before a 7, then you win $15,000 for the Tall and $3,000 the Small. Or if a 7 happens before a 2, then you lose your $100 bet on the Tall and your $100 bet on the Small.

Here's the Wizard of Odd's 7th Commandment of Gambling, "Thou shalt not hedge thy bets
Hedge bets usually carry a high house edge. For example, never take insurance in blackjack and never bet the any craps or any seven in craps. Exceptions can be made for insuring life changing amounts of money."

I'm guessing a $18,200 swing is not a life changing amount for you.

However, if you are looking to hedge, I see your difficult situation because the hop bets are only good for one roll. You could lose many 7 hop bets in a row before the 2 or the 7 comes.

I guess pass and come with maximum odds is a better way to hedge than the hop bets on 7.

Edit: I got that wrong--pass with odds would not be a good hedge because a 7 out would cause the pass and the All bet to lose.

Exactly my dilemma.

I don't do any hedging when I gamble but then on the other hand, I am faced with this situation at many times a day when at casino.
I just feel I am missing something here. $18,000 or nothing.

I need wizard advise please promptly.

If allowed lay the 2. $12,000 to win $2,000 less vig, $100

Don’t think this is crapless

Quote: ChesterDog

Here's the Wizard of Odd's 7th Commandment of Gambling, "Thou shalt not hedge thy bets."
Hedge bets usually carry a high house edge. For example, never take insurance in blackjack and never bet the any craps or any seven in craps. Exceptions can be made for insuring life changing amounts of money."

Exactly! I would do nothing. If this were a life changing amount of money, I suppose you could make a large bet on the don't pass or don't come and hop the totals of seven for the first roll. However, it will significantly deplete the expected value.

Quote: Wizard

Exactly! I would do nothing. If this were a life changing amount of money, I suppose you could make a large bet on the don't pass or don't come and hop the totals of seven for the first roll. However, it will significantly deplete the expected value.

Mostly agree with this. Expected value of this spot is $3k (the 1 in 6 chance that a two hits before a 7). Do you really want to try to lock in less than that? Boring.

If I was going to do it I would probably just keep hopping the 7s for $175 or $200 each rather than make a big don’t bet and risk a point coming. Terrible EV drag.

To do nothing 5 times in one day is fell like time passing me by with opportunity. There must be something. I've done nothing for days.

Quote: unJon

Mostly agree with this. Expected value of this spot is $3k (the 1 in 6 chance that a two hits before a 7). Do you really want to try to lock in less than that? Boring.

If I was going to do it I would probably just keep hopping the 7s for $175 or $200 each rather than make a big don’t bet and risk a point coming. Terrible EV drag.

I did what you say. I play hop 7 x 3 for $200 after 9 more times 7 came but no 2. I made out ok from other bets but this one with hop 7 is fell like small win but if I don bet this way I would have these bets in my tray. Max paying for hop 7 = 12000 for $2000 max table. Hop 7 bet = $800 maximum bet for each 7 set of 3.

I am faced with crying times with this ALL|TALL|SMALL. with 40 rolls and no twelve yet. Please recommend me with a new approach. I don't think there is a better place to get the answer i'm searching for.

Quote: fengshui

I am faced with crying times with this ALL|TALL|SMALL. with 40 rolls and no twelve yet. Please recommend me with a new approach. I don't think there is a better place to get the answer i'm searching for.

1) Set the dice with crossed sixes on top.
2) Rub your fingers on the felt slowly at least twice.
3) Gently pick up the dice with three fingers only.
4) Shout “Come on boxcars! Baby needs a new pair of shoes!! Hard twelve one time!!!”
5) Forcefully launch the dice with a 25 degree loft and 2x revolution backspin angular velocity.

This technique works for me.*

I don't typically play the side bets, but when I do, it is usually the All Small Tall bet. I see it hit much more often then the other side bets. So there is reason to believe that this can happen to someone several times a day.

Here is what I would do and the reasons why:

Scenario:
- 300 risked
- 3,000 is already won and locked away.
- 2 is needed prior to a 7 to win 18,000
- prior point was made so you are on a come out roll

My play assuming any 7 pays 5-1, if its 4-1 I would adjust a bit:
- Come out roll bet 10,000 on the DC, 700 on the 11 (Yo), 2500 on any 7, 100 on the 12
- if the 2 comes!!, you win the DC and the All bets but lose 7, 11, 12 bets (18,000 + 10,000-3,300 = 24,700)
- if the 3 comes, you win the DC and lose the yo, 12, and any 7 .. still alive (10,000-3,300 = 6,700)
- if the 11 comes, you cover your DC bet but lose your 7, 12 bets .. still alive (10,500-10,000-2,600 = -2,100)
- if the 12 comes, you lose your DC and Yo bet..still alive (3,000 - 3,200 = -200)
- if the 7 comes, you win any 7 bet and lose DC, Yo, and 12 bets (12,500 -10,000-800 = 1,700)

In the above scenarios, you are pretty well hedged positioned to win in all possible ways accept the Yo. If none of the above numbers are rolled on the come out , then you lost the any 7, yo, and 12 bets (-3,300) but you still have the 10,000 on the DC and you are positioned to win regardless of what the come out number is . You only care about the 2 or 7 at this point.

- if the 2 comes, you win the All bet .. Congrats, at this point you have only lost out 3,300 from the any 7, Yo, and 12 for an aggregate profit of 14,700 (18,000 - 3,300). Your 10,000 DC is still up. You can take that down or even take half away if you want and let it ride.

- if the 7 comes , you win your DC minus your initial any 7, Yo, and 12 bets for an aggregate profit of 6700 (10,000-3,300 = 6,700)

With this played out scenario you basically guarantee yourself a profit of either 14,700 or 6,700.. Give or take depending on the come out scenarios. If the yo comes a few times in a row on the come out, that will take away from the profit.. rethinking.. I may even put an extra 100 or 200 on the yo on come out roll.

I understand people like to go for the home run and think hedging is foolish. I disagree in scenarios where you can guarantee yourself a Win , whereas the probability of the home run play is very low ( 2 is .027 chance of hitting (1 in 36) If the probability of winning were to be much greater, say 50% or more, than I may not hedge depending on the risk/payout ratio.

Yo mentioned that this happens often... perhaps 5 times already or 5x a day... never hitting that last 2 number. always 7 out. if you lock in the 6,700 win each time . 5 x 6700 = 33,500. It adds up over time.

good luck!

Quote: WatchMeWin

I don't typically play the side bets, but when I do, it is usually the All Small Tall bet. I see it hit much more often then the other side bets. So there is reason to believe that this can happen to someone several times a day.

Here is what I would do and the reasons why:

Scenario:
- 300 risked
- 3,000 is already won and locked away.
- 2 is needed prior to a 7 to win 18,000
- prior point was made so you are on a come out roll

My play assuming any 7 pays 5-1, if its 4-1 I would adjust a bit:
- Come out roll bet 10,000 on the DC, 700 on the 11 (Yo), 2500 on any 7, 100 on the 12
- if the 2 comes!!, you win the DC and the All bets but lose 7, 11, 12 bets (18,000 + 10,000-3,300 = 24,700)
- if the 3 comes, you win the DC and lose the yo, 12, and any 7 .. still alive (10,000-3,300 = 6,700)
- if the 11 comes, you cover your DC bet but lose your 7, 12 bets .. still alive (10,500-10,000-2,600 = -2,100)
- if the 12 comes, you lose your DC and Yo bet..still alive (3,000 - 3,200 = -200)
- if the 7 comes, you win any 7 bet and lose DC, Yo, and 12 bets (12,500 -10,000-800 = 1,700)

In the above scenarios, you are pretty well hedged positioned to win in all possible ways accept the Yo. If none of the above numbers are rolled on the come out , then you lost the any 7, yo, and 12 bets (-3,300) but you still have the 10,000 on the DC and you are positioned to win regardless of what the come out number is . You only care about the 2 or 7 at this point.

- if the 2 comes, you win the All bet .. Congrats, at this point you have only lost out 3,300 from the any 7, Yo, and 12 for an aggregate profit of 14,700 (18,000 - 3,300). Your 10,000 DC is still up. You can take that down or even take half away if you want and let it ride.

- if the 7 comes , you win your DC minus your initial any 7, Yo, and 12 bets for an aggregate profit of 6700 (10,000-3,300 = 6,700)

With this played out scenario you basically guarantee yourself a profit of either 14,700 or 6,700.. Give or take depending on the come out scenarios. If the yo comes a few times in a row on the come out, that will take away from the profit.. rethinking.. I may even put an extra 100 or 200 on the yo on come out roll.

I understand people like to go for the home run and think hedging is foolish. I disagree in scenarios where you can guarantee yourself a Win , whereas the probability of the home run play is very low ( 2 is .027 chance of hitting (1 in 36) If the probability of winning were to be much greater, say 50% or more, than I may not hedge depending on the risk/payout ratio.

Yo mentioned that this happens often... perhaps 5 times already or 5x a day... never hitting that last 2 number. always 7 out. if you lock in the 6,700 win each time . 5 x 6700 = 33,500. It adds up over time.

good luck!

You are missing the scenario where point is established and made before a 2 is rolled and you are out the DC and all your other bets, and back to square one on the All All.

Quote: unJon

You are missing the scenario where point is established and made before a 2 is rolled and you are out the DC and all your other bets, and back to square one on the All All.

You are absolutely right. My apologies. I was rushing to a meeting and did not think about that scenario. Shame on me. I will rethink this later.

Quote: WatchMeWin

My play assuming any 7 pays 5-1, if its 4-1 I would adjust a bit:

Just about every craps table I have seen the any7 pays 5 for 1 or 4 to 1. (different in England)
sure hope you agree and if not your ignorance (lack of knowledge or information.) is showing on that matter.

Quote: WatchMeWin

- Come out roll bet 10,000 on the DC,

a DC bet is not allowed on the come out roll. never seen it, table or machine.
what tables do you play at that allow this?
the don't pass is allowed on the comeout roll.

I guess (could be wrong) you never really make these bets.
I have made many Lay bets over the years and find that almost 100% of players have no clue what they are.

I also agree you did not leave room for the point to be hit.

Quote: 7craps

Just about every craps table I have seen the any7 pays 5 for 1 or 4 to 1. (different in England)
sure hope you agree and if not your ignorance (lack of knowledge or information.) is showing on that matter.
a DC bet is not allowed on the come out roll. never seen it, table or machine.
what tables do you play at that allow this?
the don't pass is allowed on the comeout roll.

I guess (could be wrong) you never really make these bets.
I have made many Lay bets over the years and find that almost 100% of players have no clue what they are.

I also agree you did not leave room for the point to be hit.

I assumed he meant DP.

Quote: unJon

I assumed he meant DP.

U t correct. Of course. .. i meant DP.

Quote: WatchMeWin

You are absolutely right. My apologies. I was rushing to a meeting and did not think about that scenario. Shame on me. I will rethink this later.

This was a really interesting post/scenario. The final answer is...... enjoy the 3000 you already won and hope for the best on hitting the 2. Lol. Unless you could somehow find some place that would allow you to lay the 2, theres no significant guarantee hedge worth while.

I am thankful for your response. There are many opportunities for hedging on the ALL|TALL|SMALL. I have experience at least 3 and 4 time per hour to lay 4,5,6,8,9,10 against one of the sides SMALL or TALL with $100 bet. Much appreciation for the many wizards here. Thank you.

Quote: fengshui

I am thankful for your response. There are many opportunities for hedging on the ALL|TALL|SMALL. I have experience at least 3 and 4 time per hour to lay 4,5,6,8,9,10 against one of the sides SMALL or TALL with $100 bet. Much appreciation for the many wizards here. Thank you.

Yep... if your last number to hit for the all bets is anything but horn numbers, (2,3,11,12) then I would lay the number needed for guaranteed payout.

Where do you play that sees this scenario happen four to five times an hour? Must not have crowded tables and lots of rhythm with rolls. This is typically a scenario in which I see the all small tall bets win.

Quote: WatchMeWin

Where do you play that sees this scenario happen four to five times an hour? Must not have crowded tables and lots of rhythm with rolls. This is typically a scenario in which I see the all small tall bets win.

Basing on my experience
* Both sides not complete with possible hedge 4,5,6 or 8,9,10 happens approximate 3 to 4 times for 1-2 hour period
* Both sides not complete with possible hedge 2,3 or 11,12 happens approximate 6 to 8 times for 1-2 hour period
* One side complete happens approximate 1 times for 2 hour period but in many occurrences resulting in 2 or 12 being the final number.
* One side complete happens approximate 1 times for 4 hour period and in many occurrences resulting in a hedge possibility being the final number of 4,5,6 or 8,9,10

There are more experiences but the one that catches is the one that
* One side complete happens approximate 1 times for 2 hour period but in many occurrences resulting in 2 or 12 being the final number.

I've done it successfully several times but have never won a cent. I've just won money for other people because I won't make such a silly bet.

I don't know what the edge is, but whoever thought of the bet and putting on the layout in the first place deserves a raise.

My fellow Wizards, This is happening to me again a couple times just in last few days with needing last number 2 or 12.
I wanted to include a better approach to the last number and recommending
*LAY ALL NUMBERS 4-5-6-8-9-10 for $1000 Each followed by DON"T COME $1000 for EACH.
Awaiting replies.

Quote: fengshui

My fellow Wizards, This is happening to me again a couple times just in last few days with needing last number 2 or 12.
I wanted to include a better approach to the last number and recommending
*LAY ALL NUMBERS 4-5-6-8-9-10 for $1000 Each followed by DON"T COME $1000 for EACH.
Awaiting replies.

No Beuno! If the shooters keeps making box numbers then you lose all of those lay bets which will add up if the shooter shoots numbers for a while.

The way I see it is if the 7 gets rolled I will catch all the lay bets but while the lay bets are still up I can follow up with DON'T COME bet to go in behind to give me full payout. In this case we LAY4 for 1000 but only pays 500 an we still lose 5% charge. Having the DON'T COME of $1000 will now pay Even if the 7 was rolling. Do this with all 6 numbers will still give me many chances to favor my wagers. I've tried this with success against 9 numbers rolled. In this case even if I incorporate martindale style bet to bring me to less my losses. What do you think?

Why isn't it good enough to catch the one side of it? If you're hitting it for 3k 2-3-4 times a session, so what if you don't hit the rest? It's not like you're losing 300 every roll - it takes numerous rolls to resolve. I just don't see hedging in this situation.

I wish it came to resolve that much. No the ending one number left occurnce is maybe 1-2 times per 4 hours and is most like to showing 2 or 12. I am quite happy with even one time to make one side but maybe best to play smaller amount for ALL numbers. like 100|50|100.

I was rolling solo on the craps table this morning. Played the All Bets. Rolled a boat load of numbers in a short period of time. It was beautiful! Made all of the numbers except the 11. I can see how people get hooked to that bet. It comes so close.. so often.

Yes. Now you see how easy and fast they come to resolve each number and in many cases you will also notice 4,5,6 & 8,9,10 available as last number to hedge. Easy money honey. But then take noticing for 2,3,11,12 how many times offering hedge opportunit on both sides.
This is why I choose LAY4,5,6,8,9,10 on comeout bet small when both sides and larger when gets to one side needing only one number.

Wagering $1.00 or $5.00 on ALL|TALL|SMALL is too cheap but when you increase your wager to $25, $50 or $100 you will see what I mean to hedge 3-5 times within 1-3 hours of playing. Easy money honey. What do you think?

I think you just threw me off with your 'easy money honey' comment. Are you Nathan in disguise ?

Take a pic of the table today when you have your money up on the All bets .

Sorry for my expression. EASY MONEY HONEY. It good note for saying to you like SWEET AS CANDY BABY.

As a custom in the US someone addresses "honey" to someone of the opposite sex, or to their children, only .

NoNo. I mean like WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER, also like BRING ME NEW SHOES MAMA. Like that. You understand this? Sorry from my comedy.

Quote: fengshui

NoNo. I mean like WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER, also like BRING ME NEW SHOES MAMA. Like that. You understand this? Sorry from my comedy.

It is ok with me but you unintentionally insulted the other man I think.

Naturally, you need permission to address strangers and especially the opposite sex in a less than formal way anywhere in the world. But "honey" is very risky and "baby" can be risky. yes, amongst fellow gamblers much is acceptable , but I would never use "honey" except with close friends.

NoNo. This we say to dealer when she pay the wins. not guy. What do you think?

Buzz?

Quote: WatchMeWin

I think you just threw me off with your 'easy money honey' comment. Are you Nathan in disguise ?

I am so sorry. I only mean to express laughter in saying this to the dealers at the table. not meant for you direct or indirect.
I am very honored to be talking with wizards here. What do you think of this ALL|TALL|SMALL bet so far?

Quote: fengshui

I am so sorry. I only mean to express laughter in saying this to the dealers at the table. not meant for you direct or indirect.
I am very honored to be talking with wizards here. What do you think of this ALL|TALL|SMALL bet so far?

At 20% advantage for the house, you need to learn to throw one six, preferably two sixes.

How can personage learn to throw a six since the game of the craps is random and recent slow motion videos proved dice controls does not exist unless your from the Arizona.

Gentalmen. This has nothing to do with rolling a 6. Random is much best suited for the ALL|TALL|SMALL
If you take note for this you will see many occurance of 1 number remain for complete reguardless of the house. What do you think to do when this happens to you?

Watch this video and see in only 3 minute less this gentalmen made all numbers.
youtu.be/KBGTGRNTYhM

Solution for the ALL|TALL|SMALL what do you think?

Earlier today I was faced with another delemna for this ALL SMALL completed and paid $1500 for my $50|50|50 wager leaving me with last number ELEVEN to be made totaling another $9000. What do you think? I will kindly wait for logical answer.

Quote: fengshui

Gentalmen. This has nothing to do with rolling a 6. Random is much best suited for the ALL|TALL|SMALL

Random results favor the house by 20%. What part of that do you not understand? Learn to roll a six preferably two. This, while staying hydrated, can be done.💰💰💰

How will you roll sixes?

My fellow wizards, I will put this ALL | TALL | SMALL to Secret. I have found the solution and Thank you again for your Expertize.

You have learned to roll 6’s! Congrats 🎈🎉🎊!

Unfortunately I wish I had learned to roll 6's in this early morning being faced with completing all number but a 12. My solution involves to

* LAY ALL NUMBERS 4|5|6 8|9|10 for maximum wager
* Continuous DON'T COME wager of amount equal to the amount of each LAY wager.
* HOP each 7 with 25 wager increasing each loss with an additional $25 chip for each after 4 losses against one of the remaining numbers 2|3|11|12.
*Stretching each 7 by 25|25|25|25|50|50|50|50|75|75|75|100|100|100 until accomplished.

What will be achieved in this is the LAY and DON'T COME wagers will be insurance for the HOP Wager resulting in a much larger payout against one of the remaining numbers 2|3|11|12.

I hope you tip the dealers

Quote: fengshui

LAY and DON'T COME wagers will be insurance for the HOP Wager

HOP wager? ... you've lost me, I thought you were looking for a solution to the problem of having advanced on the all/tall/small and needing one more number - finding a way to create value to that.

we know that no combination of negative expectation bets can create positive expectation, perhaps you know that too.