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Dabba
Dabba
Joined: Jan 28, 2018
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January 28th, 2018 at 10:26:38 AM permalink
So currently my buy ins for craps are about 200 bucks and I play twice a month. I used to play with a lot more. Starting out I liked 3 point molly with full 5x odds on a $5 table, even taking it up to 10/50 when I had more winnings to play with. Currently though I'm just looking to stretch my playtime out as much as I can with $200.

I know it's good to have 10x your average bet, so I figure I can have around $20 on the table at a time. For a warm or hot table I like to do PL with 1x odds and then $6 6 and 8. I take 4 hits and then start pressing out and then up with a take/press progression. If a point is hit I'll take 2-3 hits then continue the press where I left off. Its been pretty fun.

But I need something for when the table is cold that works with my bankroll. I've tried a few and had success with good luck (for me anyone, sorry light siders) but the bankroll requirements are often too high. Lately I've been thinking of doing a $5 Don't pass with 1x odds and placing the 6 and 8 for $6. Two hits and I take them down and wait for the 7/point to be made, then repeat. I really only intend to use this when the table is cold and there are a lot of seven outs. Advice on this? Any suggestions for any other systems to play with while the table is cold on the cheap?

Thanks!
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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January 28th, 2018 at 10:34:13 AM permalink
Quote: Dabba

So currently my buy ins for craps are about 200 bucks and I play twice a month. I used to play with a lot more. Starting out I liked 3 point molly with full 5x odds on a $5 table, even taking it up to 10/50 when I had more winnings to play with. Currently though I'm just looking to stretch my playtime out as much as I can with $200.

I know it's good to have 10x your average bet, so I figure I can have around $20 on the table at a time. For a warm or hot table I like to do PL with 1x odds and then $6 6 and 8. I take 4 hits and then start pressing out and then up with a take/press progression. If a point is hit I'll take 2-3 hits then continue the press where I left off. Its been pretty fun.

But I need something for when the table is cold that works with my bankroll. I've tried a few and had success with good luck (for me anyone, sorry light siders) but the bankroll requirements are often too high. Lately I've been thinking of doing a $5 Don't pass with 1x odds and placing the 6 and 8 for $6. Two hits and I take them down and wait for the 7/point to be made, then repeat. I really only intend to use this when the table is cold and there are a lot of seven outs. Advice on this? Any suggestions for any other systems to play with while the table is cold on the cheap?

Thanks!



Welcome to the forum. If you want to have an intelligent conversation with any of the math/gambling experts here, the first thing you must learn is that there is NO SUCH THING as a warm or cold table. The result of next roll has NOTHING to do with what the previous rolls were. NOTHING. If you cannot understand and agree with that concept you will gain nothing from the answers you will receive.
If your main goal is to last as long as possible the best bet is table minimum on don't pass. If that is too boring for you then adding the place bets you mention will slightly hasten your exit on average. If you have a different goal, such as doubling your initial stake, that's another discussion.
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
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January 28th, 2018 at 1:51:57 PM permalink
Quote: Dabba

Currently though I'm just looking to stretch my playtime out as much as I can with $200



Assuming you like to have about $20 on the table, bet $10 on pass or don’t pass with 1 x odds. You will have about a 2 in 3 chance of surviving 100 bets, roughly 2 hours of play.
Dabba
Dabba
Joined: Jan 28, 2018
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January 28th, 2018 at 3:51:03 PM permalink
Hmm. I know past rolls of the dice have no effect on future rolls, but I also know there is variance. Sometimes the variance is high in one way or another for a time, which is when you see people bust or make a ton of money. That is what I mean by hot and cold. There's no way to predict variance of course but if you happen to be playing the same side as the variance is.. then you can make money. I know it's all luck and random and a -EV game, but I like to do my best to ride the variances one way or the other.

I do like to play 3 numbers including the point, but I'm always looking for other interesting ways to play to have some fun. I'd like to stay the longest, but wouldnt mind doubling my money either. But I have a feeling if I said if I want the best way to double my money you guys would say place it all on the PL and full odds and pray. I would like something though that can develop to money making on a hot roll.. like a take/press progression. Just on the darkside if possible.
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
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January 28th, 2018 at 4:11:58 PM permalink
Quote: Dabba

I'd like to stay the longest, but wouldnt mind doubling my money either if possible.

Problem is, those 2 goals generally have an inverse relationship.
Dabba
Dabba
Joined: Jan 28, 2018
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January 28th, 2018 at 5:16:23 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Problem is, those 2 goals generally have an inverse relationship.



Figured, which is why I said you'd probably tell me just to make a big PL bet with max odds and pray. Luckily my casino is $5 min.
ahiromu
ahiromu
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
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Dabba
January 28th, 2018 at 5:31:29 PM permalink
Walk away when you lose. Any step you take towards session length preservation will inevitably decrease your positive variance in one way or another (aka: if you try to stay alive at a cold table, you'll miss out on a hot roll). Also known as regret.

You're already starting at the table minimum and not pressing immediately. These are my generic answers: Start at lower values (like only bet the 6 OR 8) or press less often (not at all). Those are the two options I see.

Don't hedge. Don't hedge. Don't hedge.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Dabba
Dabba
Joined: Jan 28, 2018
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January 28th, 2018 at 7:47:14 PM permalink
I do walk away when I lose. I lost a lot of money making stupid bets and not adapting my betting to table conditions, but I do have a loss limit, and I also do have a win limit.. which I'm still working on being good with!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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SOOPOO
January 29th, 2018 at 4:17:16 AM permalink
Quote: Dabba

I do walk away when I lose. I lost a lot of money making stupid bets and not adapting my betting to table conditions, but I do have a loss limit, and I also do have a win limit.. which I'm still working on being good with!

There's evidence in your statement that you are working with several fallacies, one in particular. The glaring one, hot/cold tables, definitely needs to be quashed. Now you said you know that previous rolls don't effect future rolls, but here you are still are talking about 'table conditions'. Sure, it can be proved that the results of what has taken place already can be deemed good or bad, to say it was a hot or cold table if you like, but you cannot say it will be a hot or cold table since the future starts with the next roll. If you could, your bankroll is gigantic compared to what you would need.

The fact of the matter is Craps is not a good game to play with an inadequate bankroll. If you stick to just making the Pass line bet with little or no odds, it is a boring game, known to have low variance. The usual experience would be watching your bankroll slowly dwindle with some unexciting, minimal ups and downs along the way. I've never seen anybody stick with that.

If you can't produce a big bankroll all the time, should you gamble at all? There are a lot of factors to look at, and I can't address all of them, but assuming you are not at risk to becoming a gambling addict, I think anyone can still play the same way I assume about anyone can and should indulge in some recreation of some kind. Gambling can be some of the best Escape, something most of us need too. It can be a cheap form of recreation compared to some of the other choices out there, like golf.

In your case, I would have to say what I would do is accept that I can't go all the time. I would save up my money, the amounts which you have already deemed to be expendable, till I had $1000 and go to the table with that. If you balk at that amount, then you are working with another fallacy. It is quite possible that your 'total action' would actually be less doing this than the way you have been doing it.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
klimate10
klimate10
Joined: Feb 6, 2012
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RogerKint
January 29th, 2018 at 7:07:11 AM permalink
If you want a low risk system, my system really does work to significantly lower the expected loss per hour.

Buy in, but do not bet until a shooter wins two points in a row. I’m not talking about a 7 winner, or a come bet winner, rather, I mean two come out rolls, where roller then rolls the point.

If you bet and the shooter then 7s out, start the process over for next shooter.

If you want to lower your hourly expected loss some more, when the shooter appears to be a male under the age of 40, do not bet, no matter how many points he makes. Males under the age of 40 are negative expectation craps shooters. This is a fact.

When you do bet, bet only the table minimum and max odds you can afford.

Then order a drink, but specify a top shelf alcohol. For example, don’t say ‘martini’, say ‘Belvedere martini in a glass’. This is a positive expectation bet compared to the bar or nightclub.

If you’re playing this system with a friend, and you’re afraid they’ll lose discipline and start betting when they shouldn’t, then whenever a shooter sevens out, point to the table and say loudly to your friends, ‘oh look at how much money everyone lost’. Then order another drink.

If everyone bet using this system, I guarantee the casinos would lose money offering craps and probably pull every craps game. But people don’t have discipline, so that’s not going to happen.

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