Poll

1 vote (4.76%)
No votes (0%)
3 votes (14.28%)
1 vote (4.76%)
13 votes (61.9%)
1 vote (4.76%)
9 votes (42.85%)
3 votes (14.28%)
1 vote (4.76%)
2 votes (9.52%)

21 members have voted

Wizard
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May 30th, 2017 at 3:25:30 PM permalink
I went to the Orleans today in part to check out Free Flop Hold 'Em. While I was there I noticed some four hard way place bets in craps. The evidently work like regular place bets but only win if the specified hard way is rolled before a seven. Wins pay 5 to 1. House edge, on a per bet resolved basis, is 14.29%.

That is about all there is to say about them but I do have a little more math on my Odds site.

The question for the poll is would you bet these?

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
BasesLoaded
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May 30th, 2017 at 3:44:30 PM permalink
Don't like the fact that the layout of these new bets encroaches on the COME area.

The COME bet is underappreciated as it is.
DeMango
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May 30th, 2017 at 6:16:42 PM permalink
It would be interesting to work them on the comeout! As opposed to hop! Or all day.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
odiousgambit
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May 31st, 2017 at 2:57:07 AM permalink
For the same reason as the Big 6/8, it's inexcusable to have these boxes on the felt.

as far as "only win if the specified hard way is rolled before a seven", this different aspect just costs too much

PS: it is interesting that the probability of winning, and the HE, is the same regardless of the bet. It took me a moment to understand why.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Ayecarumba
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May 31st, 2017 at 9:56:56 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

...The(y) evidently work like regular place bets but only win if the specified hard way is rolled before a seven...]



Does that mean that, unlike "Hardway" bets, they don't lose if the specified number comes in "Easy"?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
odiousgambit
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May 31st, 2017 at 1:14:23 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Does that mean that, unlike "Hardway" bets, they don't lose if the specified number comes in "Easy"?



it has to mean that, otherwise having the same payout of 5:1 for each bet would mean different HE for hard 6 compared to hard 10, etc.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
BlueEagle
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May 31st, 2017 at 2:41:36 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

That is about all there is to say about them but I do have a little more math on my Odds site.


It looks to me that your side bet write-up from 2011 for Place the Hard Ways is the same thing as your new write-up Hard Way Place Bets.


Quote:

Place the Hard Ways
Place the Hard Ways is a proposition wager that was seen at the Orleans in Las Vegas in late 2011. It works like the other Place bets, except the point must be made the hard way. It differs from the Hard Way bets in that making the point the easy way does not cause a loss. There are four bets available, on the hard 4, 6, 8, and 10.

The following table shows the house edge is 14.3% per bet resolved.




Quote: Ayecarumba

Does that mean that, unlike "Hardway" bets, they don't lose if the specified number comes in "Easy"?


Yes, that is what one of the dice dealers at the table told me.
Wizard
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May 31st, 2017 at 3:05:56 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

PS: it is interesting that the probability of winning, and the HE, is the same regardless of the bet. It took me a moment to understand why.



Yes, it is. That is also true of the Any 7 bet, the probability of winning and house edge are both 1/6.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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May 31st, 2017 at 3:08:49 PM permalink
Quote: BlueEagle

It looks to me that your side bet write-up from 2011 for Place the Hard Ways is the same thing as your new write-up Hard Way Place Bets.



Dang. I had a suspicion that I had seen this somewhere before. That is why I had a choice for that in the poll. Am I getting senile or do people just forget things they saw six years ago?

Thank you for telling me.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
gamerfreak
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beachbumbabs
May 31st, 2017 at 3:25:42 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: BlueEagle

It looks to me that your side bet write-up from 2011 for Place the Hard Ways is the same thing as your new write-up Hard Way Place Bets.



Dang. I had a suspicion that I had seen this somewhere before. That is why I had a choice for that in the poll. Am I getting senile or do people just forget things they saw six years ago?

Thank you for telling me.


I'm 25 and most days I can't remember what I had for breakfast, which is especially concerning because it's ALWAYS cheerios.
Wizard
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May 31st, 2017 at 6:14:07 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I'm 25 and most days I can't remember what I had for breakfast, which is especially concerning because it's ALWAYS cheerios.



Thanks. That was funny.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
odiousgambit
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June 1st, 2017 at 3:56:05 AM permalink
delete
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Jun 1, 2017
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
FleaStiff
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June 1st, 2017 at 4:44:02 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I'm 25 and most days I can't remember what I had for breakfast, which is especially concerning because it's ALWAYS cheerios.

I have to remember to have both cereal and milk in the house and then try to remember if I ate breakfast already or not.

I guess if its the same house edge as Big Red then people can play them with less social impact on the table.

I don't think I would ever play them. Its getting so its going to be difficult to find a simplified craps layout.
bushman
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June 1st, 2017 at 9:42:15 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I'm 25 and most days I can't remember what I had for breakfast, which is especially concerning because it's ALWAYS cheerios.



I think it is awesome that a 25-year old actually eats breakfast. Good on you, mate.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
MrV
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June 1st, 2017 at 10:14:12 AM permalink
Quote: BasesLoaded

Don't like the fact that the layout of these new bets encroaches on the COME area.

The COME bet is underappreciated as it is.



In my observation, the come bet is pretty much ignored by most players, who usually bet PL, place bets, or both.

Why so much space is given to the come bet, when most players ignore it, remains a mystery.
"What, me worry?"
DJTeddyBear
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June 1st, 2017 at 10:56:56 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Why so much space is given to the come bet, when most players ignore it, remains a mystery.

I've always felt that part of the come (and/or field) box, next to the stick, should have a small DC box.

Similarly, part of the dont come box could be for a small field box. Then again, yesterday I saw a lady next to the dealer reaching to the field box. She was wearing a low cut top. Nice.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FleaStiff
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June 1st, 2017 at 11:47:48 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Why so much space is given to the come bet, when most players ignore it, remains a mystery.

Because the ComeBet Area is also the "check change only" area and the box, floor, pit and camera crew all want an area utterly free of obstacles or shadows.

I don't know about "most players". I would think most know that a PassLine Bet is for the entire table and uses that great big hockey puck while a ComeBet is simply a Private PassLine bet with the stack of 'chips' being its own "hockey puck".
FleaStiff
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June 1st, 2017 at 11:59:00 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I've always felt that part of the come (and/or field) box, next to the stick, should have a small DC box.

What about the dealer at the old Terribles who took a razor blade and scratched off the Dont Come lettering leaving only the outline of the box. He didn't like people who made DC bets and he didn't like having to check that box since it was seldom used, so he essentially got rid of it on his own. Only in Las Vegas!!

Often a dealer will inform a young lady who is standing next to the Stick to put her Field bet on the 2 so as to get paid double, of course if she is standing well away from the Stick she will be told to put her Field bet on the 12 so as to be paid tripple. Its not proper bet placement, but sometimes it takes the young lady a while to realize what is happening.

And of course there was the famous incident when a woman who had just headlined at Caesars was shooting dice at Binions and the stick "short sticked" her: she took one out and said if you want to look go ahead but give me my dice. She finished her roll that way too.

I sometimes think I'm the only one at the dice table who is simply trying to win rather than look at scenery.
I used to consider "scenery" to be a Barney, now I consider a Green to be "scenery".
Ayecarumba
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June 1st, 2017 at 2:45:25 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

it has to mean that, otherwise having the same payout of 5:1 for each bet would mean different HE for hard 6 compared to hard 10, etc.



Do they offer the same "all day" action for the 2 and 12?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Wizard
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June 1st, 2017 at 4:21:08 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Do they offer the same "all day" action for the 2 and 12?



If you mean, do they have hard way place bets on the 1-1 and 6-6, the answer is no.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ayecarumba
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June 1st, 2017 at 5:37:19 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

If you mean, do they have hard way place bets on the 1-1 and 6-6, the answer is no.



In that case, I see an opportunity here... "Place Pairs" (c) allowing the option to place bet any of the six pairs.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
DeMango
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June 1st, 2017 at 7:28:18 PM permalink
Just go to a Crapless game. Place 12 will pay $27
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Ayecarumba
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June 1st, 2017 at 8:22:58 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Just go to a Crapless game. Place 12 will pay $27



Better double check. I would only pay 5.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
DeMango
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June 1st, 2017 at 9:19:28 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Better double check. I would only pay 5.


? $10 place pays $55, $20 buy pays $119
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Ayecarumba
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June 1st, 2017 at 10:37:55 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

? $10 place pays $55, $20 buy pays $119



My bad. Sorry for the confusion. I was expanding on "Place the Hardways" where each pair only pays 5-1. Placing the Hi-Lo on a crapless table is a much better deal. Maybe the offerings on the crapless table can be further expanded to accommodate place betting the hardways too?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
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