"Sir, hit the back wall" rant.

Just came back from Southpoint table games for the first (and probably only) time. Their $5 Craps tables were jam packed. Their only $10 table was completely empty, so I figured, why not and bought in for a few bucks.

I went through my dice setting and tossing routine, and there were 2 rolls where one die didn't touch the back wall. The pit boss says condescendingly, "I bet they've told you to hit the back wall before. Yeah, this isn't your first rodeo now, is it?"

I cashed out and left without tipping. Casino personnel can be quite jaded and unpleasant. Unless you are flinging the dice around, there are going to be rolls where *one* die doesn't hit the wall. I wanted to fire back a few unpleasantries and pull out my President-status Station's card and tell him that I'm going to go support your top competitor. Amongst other insults I had in mind.

One of these days I'm going to just intentionally lob the dice *just* barely beyond the 50 yard line and see what they do. If DI worked, there'd be somebody world famous for it (and not the products they try to sell). Let me have my fun.

Been mentioned a few times around here that the name is "sweat joint" Think it was Ahigh who had tee shirts made up to wear there.

Some joints are touchy about hitting the back wall, - but a class supervisor is never rude or sarcastic to a good faith player.
Take his advice and do play at Stations.

SouthPoint is famous for things like backing off BJ players who try to go from two red chips to a Green one or something like that. Do they still have wimpy odds at the craps table?

They write up their craps crews for failure to tell the shooter to hit the back wall the very first time a die fails to reach it. I think the comment made was probably meant well and shoud have been appreciated. Else, stay out of a sweat the money joint because well... they sweat the money.

The crew has a job to do and at South Point they have to do it each and every time. They probably don't like it too much either. Nice large rooms, clean... pleasant... but don't be a 'sharpie' because they think they are pretty sharp too and they run a joint for ploppies.

Next year when my buddy and I are at South Point for Super Bowl i think we will play some craps. He is blind and when throwing he often tosses them short of the wall, and most places cut him slack and don't say anything. If they tell him at SP to hit the back wall I'm going to tell him to say "where's the back wall?"

Quote: Dyvan13

. I wanted to fire back a few unpleasantries and pull out my President-status Station's card and tell him that I'm going to go support your top competitor.

Don't, not one snarky supervisor ever would care.

Quote: FleaStiff

SouthPoint is famous for things like backing off BJ players who try to go from two red chips to a Green one or something like that. Do they still have wimpy odds at the craps table?

Yep. Only double odds. I should have known just from that that they are a sweat the money joint.

Throw them either softly enough so that they will occasionally not hit the back wall, or so hard they will often hit the back wall and bounce off the table. Nothing in between.

Actually, if you're going to play dice, then throw the dice appropriately, get into the game itself, and be done with it.

Quote: Paigowdan

Actually, if you're going to play dice, then throw the dice appropriately, get into the game itself, and be done with it.

It isn't often I agree with Dan and I'm no defender of casinos, but the rules are the rules. Hit the wall and stop taking so f'n long to "set" the dice thinking you can actually control the outcome. There are others playing at the table that want the game to continue while you are wasting everyone's time with your nonsense.

Quote: Boz

Hit the wall and stop taking so f'n long to "set" the dice thinking you can actually control the outcome.

Craps is my preferred game and I set the dice for every throw. I have no delusions about it affecting the outcome of the throw; it's just a fun thing to do before throwing the dice. It takes no more than 2 seconds (maybe 3 if I am fumble fingered) to get the exact orientation that I want, so I don't think it really slows down the game. The much bigger slowdown is that after picking up the dice, I prefer to wait until all the jokers at the other end of the table have stopped moving their chips around, tossing additional late bets in the general direction of the dealers, generally acting like jerks and finally get their hands out of the way of the dice. Then, I throw the dice and very rarely miss the end wall (usually because of hitting an obstruction on a chip-crowded table) and extremely rarely having them go off the table.

Yes, I have seen shooters who start their hand by throwing all five dice several times against the wall in front of them trying to select the perfect pair, then on each subsequent roll toss the dice a couple of times more in front of themselves looking for some magical sign, and then finally go through some bizarre exercise routine pushing and pulling on the table rail until they are finally fully-prepared for the throw. These are either knuckleheads who normally play in some dark alley or the idiots that paid money to some dice system instructor and actually believe that the routine will lead to a brilliant career at the craps table.

I agree with Dan's recommendation with regard to the general play of the game. I think (not certain) that TomG's comments were in regard to how to deal with an anal-retentive dealer who wants to come down hard on a shooter the very first time that the dice bounce sideways and don't reach the end of the table. That is, I think Tom might have been suggesting that if the paid employee wants to act like a jerk, then his employer's guest might go ahead and return the gesture.

I'm a crap dealer, and I just came back from my shift. (And yes, I did go back, and it keeps me busy.)

Basically, players are expected to make a good faith effort to throw the dice decently, and for the most part, they do so indeed.
And floor personnel are also supposed to be fair, friendly, and reasonably forgiving over minor dice mishaps when players are trying in good faith.

Problems occur when either players or floormen get standoffish or territorial about things, the whole 'look at me, I'm the big man in charge here at the crap table" type of thing - the human condition being what it is. While we try to get a team spirit going, many players try to assert some "Alpha dominance/man-in-charge/I'm Gumby, dammit!" ego-boosting routines at the crap table by pushing the limit a bit. Lobbing five dice down when it is not necessary and very disruptive at the table is a case in point; some places will pass the dice to the next shooter with no warning.

Tonight, one guy threw the dice off the table frequently; the pit crew thought they were doing cardio, chasing the the dice back into the pit so often. But this player was given a lot of leeway because he was trying, and our table is a bit bouncy. Fine.

Crap dealers can also get "crap dealer Ego" on other dealers. I dealt with one dealer who also deals part time at the Aria.
One player threw the dice pretty hard, and one die started to spin on its axis for quite a while, like a child's top toy. I said, "Wait for the call, the dice are spinning," and then I gave the call about twenty seconds later ("Mark the 9, point is 9") when they landed.

But this other dealer, in the middle of the game with the one player present said, "Excuse me, little Danny, but what you said wasn't a p-r-r-r-oper stick call, so let me instruct you, little boy..." where I said, "you aren't instructing me squat, as I gave it as a game notification only. Don't tell me what's a proper stick call when you're not on stick, as I'll say things like "Good morning" to a new player, or "there's a space on the 2nd base side," and other things that are not stick calls as part of my job. YOU have a name tag and a table, and are no better than anyone else here. Let's get back to the game here."

I discussed this with the shift manager, and he is aware of prima dona dealers trying to peck themselves up by dressing down other dealers under b.s. pretenses like "instructing" - while supposedly on a team game, just as floormen and players do also. For me, it is bad enough when players take shots at dealers, but inexcusable for dealers to take shots at fellow dealers while on a live game, and for a floormen to be abusive, even if a player is a shot taker - all for the sake of their own ego boosting in a group environment. Basta! ("Enough!")

The simple fact of the matter is that on a multi-player, multi dealer game like craps with a lot of shoulder-to-shoulder action, you're going to see a good bit of Alpha Dog maneuvers and one-upmanship in group behavior, - a lot of shenanigans, basically - from the players, dealers, and even floor personnel drilling on a player. There may be team captains like Derek Jeter on the New York Yankees, but not on a crap game aside from the boxman. Any action in good faith that is related to trying to play the game right is generally tolerated, but you'll see some jerks.

Many crap dealers think and act superior because they believe that craps is the hardest game to deal.

Fire a fastball

Quote: Boz

It isn't often I agree with Dan and I'm no defender of casinos, but the rules are the rules. Hit the wall and stop taking so f'n long to "set" the dice thinking you can actually control the outcome. There are others playing at the table that want the game to continue while you are wasting everyone's time with your nonsense.

Did you read the OP? The table was completely empty. And for anybody who has practiced even a little bit, setting the dice should only take 2-3 seconds.

On DI: I know it's not changing the probability of anything. For myself and many players, its a big part of the fun and the Craps experience. We could just fling the dice hastily, but there is something about the finesse of the setting procedure and toss that makes it much more fun.

One thing I have always been amused with are the people that set the dice, then throw a MLB fastball down the table.

Quote: Dyvan13

Did you read the OP? The table was completely empty. And for anybody who has practiced even a little bit, setting the dice should only take 2-3 seconds.

On DI: I know it's not changing the probability of anything. For myself and many players, its a big part of the fun and the Craps experience. We could just fling the dice hastily, but there is something about the finesse of the setting procedure and toss that makes it much more fun.

One thing I have always been amused with are the people that set the dice, then throw a MLB fastball down the table.

Yes I read the post but the same story happens to some degree 24/7 at craps tables. Basic expectation is the player hits the wall. Dealers can tell when someone is being cute or just didn't hit the wall. Big difference. No excuse for them being a dick to most players but some deserve it. Not saying you did but some push their patience with nonsense over and over.

As for the setting, I don't care what someone does as long as they do it quickly. The jokers that take 10 seconds to throw them slow down the game. But I can also leave the table if I don't like how others are playing. To each his own game.

Quote: Doc

The much bigger slowdown is that after picking up the dice, I prefer to wait until all the jokers at the other end of the table have stopped moving their chips around, tossing additional late bets in the general direction of the dealers, generally acting like jerks and finally get their hands out of the way of the dice.

When I first learned to play this was my instinct... but the crew at the time made it quite clear- when we give you the dice, go ahead and throw them.

But if you do throw then, hit the hand/arm of the joker that is interfering, and the dice wind up showing that nasty number, then everyone at the table is mad at both the joker and the shooter. Of course it's random, but try convincing a group of POed players who just lost their money and saw exactly what happened!

I have a vague and probably false memory of a time a guy kept blocking the table and ignoring the fact the dice were out. According to this "memory", I didn't make my usual throw. Instead, I threw one die as a fastball that bounced sharply off his arm and (by "accident") still held the other die securely in my hand for a no-roll call. The point was to make a point.

Of course, that was probably just in one of my fantasies and never happened in real life. I'm not sure. I wonder how PGDan would have felt if that had happened at his table.

Some of my favorite responses to those dice setters:

Please throw them before you pick them up.

and

I believe those dice come pre-set from the factory.

Quote: Dyvan13

Yep. Only double odds. I should have known just from that that they are a sweat the money joint.

Yeah, its a sure tip off. A cruise ship often does that because you ain't got nowhere else to go, but SouthPoint just does it to be cheap and ever vigilant. If a player gets real lucky they don't want it to cost them, even if his play is totally legitimate. Its a nice place for several reasons, but its a place that likes ploppies and red-button pushers who don't even read the paytables.

ATTN. Paigowdan: Good advice about a proper throw, but why not spell out for us just what a proper throw is. A high arcing lob is frowned upon in some places. I do NOT ever try any funny throws but I once got a high arc and the dice settled exactly at the base of the wall without bouncing. I'd have called it a no roll but they were quick to take my bet away. I still think that Box had it in for me for some reason.

Craps is the most demanding game to deal. Math ALL the time. A BJ dealer can 'zone out' from time to time but a craps dealer can't. A stick man can 'run over' a base dealer but usually should pace the game in such a manner that each end of the table gets properly serviced.

I feel embarrassed if I get a 'Too Tall To Call' or other die overboard result even though I know I sure didn't try to throw it into the slot machine area.

I'm often hesitant to pick up an errant die for fear of anyone thinking I'm about to switch them and that I'm in collusion with the current shooter.

Quote: Dyvan13

...On DI: I know it's not changing the probability of anything. For myself and many players, its a big part of the fun...the setting procedure and toss...makes it much more fun...

this Fun all by itself is the BEST reason possible to play the game and with no clarification or amplification necessary...it is either Fun or it isn't. period.

o, sure, winning adds much more to the Fun than losing does but no one can have a (legitimate, valid) differing opinion as to WHAT is fun for you (the same probably cannot be said about IF you are having Fun, clues to which one might glean from your demeanor or general aspect [even then the opinion might not be accurate but it is at least valid to have an opinion about such])...

personally i just grab 'em and fling 'em and no one has any standing to tell me whether i think it is Fun or not...it either is or it isn't and any words cannot change that...but as is oft-said on here (or at least should be oft-said...lol) "to each his own"

tom p

Quote: Dyvan13

On DI: I know it's not changing the probability of anything.

If someone could change the probability, even a small amount, the gambler would suddenly have the advantage. And, if they could do that, they would be foolish to boast about it here (or anywhere).

Quote: Dyvan13

For myself and many players, its a big part of the fun and the Craps experience. ... there is something about the finesse of the setting procedure and toss that makes it much more fun.

Agreed. And, if shooters think it improves the chance of a win, or believe it improves the chance of a win, or hope it improves the chance of a win, why not let them have their fun?

Quote: Dyvan13

We could just fling the dice hastily....

...And thereby avoid wasting the time of those who cannot spare a few extra seconds between throws, don'cher know? Because time is money, and those hasty gamblers cannot abide anything that delays their losing money to the HA.

As for myself, I just hope all shooters do whatever they need to do to have a successful roll, whether "dice setters" or "chicken feeders." However shooters throw the dice, I'm there rooting for them, hoping they bring home the bacon.

(Edit: Deleted the dash in front of "HA")

Dice setting is a superstition, an affectation, employed by the desperate and the deluded in the "hope" that it will "work."

Uh-huh.

No different than a slot player waving his / her fingers across the screen in the same pattern before every play.

"It don't mean nothin'."

Quote: MrV

Dice setting is a superstition, an affectation, employed by the desperate and the deluded in the "hope" that it will "work."

Well, I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

But, just so I understand your post: In your opinion anyone who sets dice is "desperate"? (Clearly someone is "deluded," but lemmie clarify this reference, because the "deluded" reference may take care of itself here shortly.)

Others in this thread (and elsewhere) indicate they consider it part of the "fun" to set the dice, and agree it does not affect the random outcome of the throw. I'm puzzled as to how that makes them"desperate." Are you perhaps "deluded" in suggesting (all?) dice setters are "desperate"? (Curious minds want to know...)

We craps players all want to win, but in the long run we don't because the house has the edge over us.

Many players simply refuse to accept this as a fact, and seek ways to "beat the house:" it is in this regard that I use the word "desperate" to describe them.

They're "desperate" as they must construct some form of plan, scheme, or methodology to try and accomplish their goal, and rather than look foolish they simply "believe" that it works, or that it will work for them.

In hoping it works they evidence at minimum a form of "quiet desperation," as their embracing of DI clearly involves the superstitious as opposed to the empirical.

How else to explain grown men setting the dice if they otherwise know that dice setting "does not affect the random outcome of the throw?"

Quote: LuckyPhow

Well, I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

I don't see much point in it either, unless it could spark some other idea. However, if all the world depended on one roll against me, I'd like to see it make it all the way.

Quote: FleaStiff

I'm often hesitant to pick up an errant die for fear of anyone thinking I'm about to switch them and that I'm in collusion with the current shooter.

There is literally no reason for any player to EVER pick up a die from the floor for the casino after a no-roll. Only bad things can happen. You can get accused of switching dice. You can have your chips stolen from the rail. You can get blamed by morons if the shooter requests same dice and the seven hits next roll.

The casino isn't paying you to work for them so unless you're getting a paycheck, no one should pick up dice off the floor. Let the employees do it.

I can see that argument, but if a player chases down and picks up a die, (as often done at my joint), no harm or accusation is made. The floorman or shift manager looks at the die, checks it out (including the shift's serial number on the dice), says thanks, and puts it back into the game.

Quote: Paigowdan

I can see that argument, but if a player chases down and picks up a die, (as often done at my joint), no harm or accusation is made. The floorman or shift manager looks at the die, checks it out (including the shift's serial number on the dice), says thanks, and puts it back into the game.

Right. And that's the very best thing that could happen.

What if the shooter had switched the dice, then the die went off the table, you pick it up, and now the serial number or pips aren't right?

What if while you're walking halfway across the aisle to get a die some lowlife swipes a green chip off your rail?

If you wouldn't go out to the parking lot to valet park cars for the casino as volunteer, you shouldn't be picking up errant dice.

At Hollywood Cbus, the table is so bouncy that the dice go flying everywhere about one out of three rolls. I'm a regular there, and I can tell you players are expected to go get the dice when they don't land on the business side of the floor. Never known anyone to have had a problem with this policy...

Ignoring the mythology and superstition, and revisiting the OP; craps enjoys a bit of its own nature. I’ve said before that gambling games have existed since the first dice carved from the anklebones of an antelope were thrown against a cave wall. Modern craps only goes back a bit over two centuries, with humble beginnings in the lower Mississippi Delta. Unlike overly romantic tales of Fyodor Dostoyevsky, orgasmicaly wasting Francs in the casino in Baden-Baden, craps was a poor man’s game played in alleyways and occasionally riverboats.

It is, in fact, a very difficult game to deal. And, the dealers, when the tables are not full, can tend to use a bit of sharp banter, akin to the give-and-take of pick-up games. I think it is a bit of a throwback, and I welcome it. I’d welcome more throwbacks – like Early Surrender.:)

Quote: sodawater

Right. And that's the very best thing that could happen.

What if the shooter had switched the dice, then the die went off the table, you pick it up, and now the serial number or pips aren't right?

Floorman/boxman would notice, and have some questions, with security present. People can also try to switch dice into the game without a die thrown off the table.

Quote: sodawater

What if while you're walking halfway across the aisle to get a die some lowlife swipes a green chip off your rail?

The chip pincher would be noticed by the base dealer and surveillance, if not other players too. Players more often try to take chips from others when the game is busy, not when it is stopped with a die off the table.

Quote: sodawater

If you wouldn't go out to the parking lot to valet park cars for the casino as volunteer, you shouldn't be picking up errant dice.

I wouldn't quite put it in those terms; if a die falls off near the table and a player fetches it as a clear courtesy, it's no big deal.

Quote: Paigowdan

Floorman/boxman would notice, and have some questions, with security present. People can also try to switch dice into the game without a die thrown off the table.

Just out of curiosity after the dice go off the table do they check for balance or do they just check the serial numbers?

Someone could counterfeit biased dice with the same serial number. I certainly doubt they would want to switch dice retrieved off the floor, it's probably better for the cheat to do an in-game switch for that move.

Has anyone ever heard of anyone getting caught counterfeiting and switching dice with the same serial numbers?

Quote: MrV

Dice setting is a superstition, an affectation, employed by the desperate and the deluded in the "hope" that it will "work."

No different than the atheist who believes that everything came from nothing and The Universe has no cause.

The serial numbers change daily (sometimes shift to shift) and are different on each table. In addition to the serial number, many properties have a mark scribed on the die somewhere that they can check.

It is possible that someone could have some bad dice and have a hot stamp to put the proper number on the die, but the odds of that happening at any given time are astronomically small.

When I was a boxman, I checked the serial number and the scribe and also looked at all 6 sides of the die to make sure the numbers were all different. That takes a total of about 1.5 seconds. If someone gets a bad die on the game that passes those tests, good for them, they earned it.

Most dice switches are not done in that manner. A shooter will switch in bad dice, and very quickly switch them back out. They will not be making any large bets, the bets will all come from some other player or players on the game. There will usually be a distraction, and someone will have a large amount of money thrown in for the boxman to count. A simple die off the table is not enough to get bad dice into a game, assuming the boxman has at least a small clue :)

Quote: DeMango

No different than the atheist who believes that everything came from nothing and The Universe has no cause.

The biggest problem with the "Dice Setter" is that he slows the game down. Casinos make money on decisions per hour, and someone taking up to 60 seconds to shoot the dice cuts into the bottom line.

Quote: AxelWolf

Just out of curiosity after the dice go off the table do they check for balance or do they just check the serial numbers?

Just the serial numbers of the dice in use, unless suspicious.

Quote: AxelWolf

Someone could counterfeit biased dice with the same serial number. I certainly doubt they would want to switch dice retrieved off the floor, it's probably better for the cheat to do an in-game switch for that move.

Highly unlikely if off the table. Most dice travel within sight by several people, and are picked up quickly for the most part. Players are watched for one-handed use, and precautions seem fine and thorough enough.

Quote: AW

Has anyone ever heard of anyone getting caught counterfeiting and switching dice with the same serial numbers?

Never heard of a single instance, in comparison to pinching, capping, card marking, past-posting, etc.

Quote:

The biggest problem with the "Dice Setter" is that he slows the game down. Casinos make money on decisions per hour, and someone taking up to 60 seconds to shoot the dice cuts into the bottom line.

If it takes a few seconds or a moment, it's generally a non-issue.

The Venetian grinds used dice to a powder rather than drilling them and selling them as gifts.

Dice are examined mainlyl for their edges and the serial number/internal logo after going overboard.

Often the stick and box examine the die.

Collusion is less likely than simple nicks that might alter the outcome, but they check serial numbers just to be sure. A table being opened usually gets five dice and a list of their numbers. "Tops" are dice that have wrong number sequences.

Quote: MrV

They're "desperate" ...

I appreciate your thorough response. Thank you.

Lucky, one of the dice-setting Desperados

Quote: FCBLComish

The biggest problem with the "Dice Setter" is that he slows the game down. Casinos make money on decisions per hour, and someone taking up to 60 seconds to shoot the dice cuts into the bottom line.

Although I strongly agree a dice-setting shooter should never take more than a few seconds to set the dice, this seems more a problem (as you note) for the casino, rather than for the other players.

If I understand correctly, when the stick-person pushes the dice to the shooter, it is (supposed to be) because the dealers have finished "processing" pay-outs and new bets. As the dice-setter takes a couple of seconds to prepare her/his throw, I can scan the table to review my bets. Is everything as it should be? Did I take my Field-bet payout? With the fling'em-fast shooter, my "review" can get rushed (or completely aborted).

And, guess what? Might be hard to believe, but sometimes -- and far too often IMHO -- the stick pushes out the dice before both dealers have finished processing payouts and bets. I understand the stick is expected to keep the game moving as quickly as possible (because casinos make money on decisions per hour), but aren't they supposed to check both dealers before pushing the dice out? When a busy dealer overlooks paying my Field-bet win, my "Pay my Field!" alert -- even if announced just before the dealer finishes the Place bets -- sometimes comes as the dice are in mid-air. Situations like this should happen far less than they do. Dice setters often allow situations like these to get fixed before dealer errors become problems. And, problems often delay the game for more than a few seconds.

Quote: DeMango

No different than the atheist who believes that everything came from nothing and The Universe has no cause.

You have to wonder from came where all this (loaded) wording. It's like a few Pied Piper popularist scientists tell each of us what to say, and how to say it (back and forth to each other). So dated. Whatever happened to grounded or working originality?

Quote: DeMango

No different than the atheist who believes that everything came from nothing and The Universe has no cause.

I'm an atheist and that is not how I look at it.

I simply say "It's beyond me, I don't know how the universe came into existence."

Unlike the devout, I can face life without a pre-programmed response to this Deep Question.

I can face up to the fact that when my life is done, it's DONE: no afterlife, no harps, no 72 virgins awaiting me in paradise.

Quote: MrV

I'm an atheist and that is not how I look at it.

I simply say "It's beyond me, I don't know how the universe came into existence."

Unlike the devout, I can face life without a pre-programmed response to this Deep Question.

I can face up to the fact that when my life is done, it's DONE: no afterlife, no harps, no 72 virgins awaiting me in paradise.

I'm an Agnostic, but basically feel the same way. I don't apply the, 'Atheist,' tag to myself so much because it is still a belief, it's just a belief in a lack of something. My perspective on the matter is that the only thing I know is that I don't know.

If there is some great deity, or more than one, he/she/they should have made his/her/their presence more immediately obvious.

I go along with Douglas Adams:

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

"There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

Quote: FCBLComish

The biggest problem with the "Dice Setter" is that he slows the game down. Casinos make money on decisions per hour, and someone taking up to 60 seconds to shoot the dice cuts into the bottom line.

I have a new appreciation for the routine/method/ritual that others use. After grinding away for 3+ hours last weekend and nearly exhausting a 100x bankroll, we had an Old-School Vegas Diva buy in at our table. She was a regular, she knew what action she wanted and how to call it and she had a routine when it came time to throw. To select her dice she would pinch and drop looking for sixes to set aside. Finding two, she would line up boxcars and rest them across the passline for two or three seconds then shoot. It was a welcome distraction that focused the table and gave plenty of time for setting bets. She was consistant in her method which meant the table picked up a rhythm. Normally I don't miss an opportunity to shoot but she did well enough on her second time at bat, I colored up despite being next on the rail.
We all get the boxman that doesn't recognize an honest effort to throw properly, I usually get an apologetic look from the stick when it happens. There are times they lay it on too thick and ya just want to ask, "Are all of your kids in therapy or do you single out one of them as well?"

If a setter is slowing the game, the stickman can preset the dice.

In my view, the superstitious nature of the game is part of what makes Craps fun and I pseudo buy into it just for entertainment purposes. It is for that reason that I set the dice with the sixes up on the come out roll (and one six facing sideways) and then either do the Flying-V or a Mini-V with the twos up on all subsequent rolls.

I naturally realize that none of this accomplishes anything at all, but I also do not take seventeen years setting the dice, either, whether or not other people are at the table. I generally don't play Craps (unless I am at the casino with someone) if anyone else is at the table, anyway, so how long I take is really not anybody's concern except for mine. I would feel bad taking even two seconds to ineffectually set the dice if I went to a table that other players were already at, but I figure it is their problem if someone joins the table when I was there first, and, again, I have them set in under two seconds.

I do believe the superstition is also a fun part of the game. The stick must not have been paying attention when he sent the dice back to me showing 4-3 on one occasion. Unable to help myself, I looked at the dice very pointedly and then looked at the stick and said, "Really?" I'm a pretty good tipper, so he just chuckled and asked, "What do you suggest we do?" I told him just to change one of the faces to something else with his stick, and then I would live with it.

I don't say the number, 'Seven,' when there is an established point number, either. I tried it once just to prove that the superstition is utter bunkum (which we all know it is) the only problem is that I sevened out on my very next roll.

I guess I don't apply it in life, but I now adopt Pascal's Wager at the dice table.

Quote: LuckyPhow

And, guess what? Might be hard to believe, but sometimes -- and far too often IMHO -- the stick pushes out the dice before both dealers have finished processing payouts and bets. I understand the stick is expected to keep the game moving as quickly as possible (because casinos make money on decisions per hour), but aren't they supposed to check both dealers before pushing the dice out? When a busy dealer overlooks paying my Field-bet win, my "Pay my Field!" alert -- even if announced just before the dealer finishes the Place bets -- sometimes comes as the dice are in mid-air. Situations like this should happen far less than they do. Dice setters often allow situations like these to get fixed before dealer errors become problems. And, problems often delay the game for more than a few seconds.

Excellent point! - The stick is supposed send the dice when both base dealers are clear and ready, with all base-side bets processed from lay bet removal/DC bet removal or move-up-behind bets FIRST, then...(line bets if a line action), field bets, come bets, and place bets - in that order, while the stickman takes down center prop bets. Field bets are the first or second to be paid, but are often paid late and out of sequence - as a more sporadic bet than an up-for-the-point-cycle place bet or a 'move that come bet' bet. This is because 'serious' crap players don't play the field bet as a newbie bet.

Generally, when we have a full table of serious players, when see a field bet, what is thought is "what is THAT doing out there in plain sight? and we handle it. Fine.

Stickman may also give the FULL ORDER call: "[Winner] Nine, Down behind the 9, move new DCs to the 9, [take the don't, pay the line if the point], pay the field, come bets go to 9," rarely said fully, - mentioning everything YOU see on stick to be handled to help the base dealers - with the place bets handled without a call as the only instruction never given by the stickman. Basically it is '9, pay the line and field, typically, done with, you base dealers handle this.

The DC bets get processed "quick and first" on the rare occasion someone bets them or has then behind the line. You can see how messy crap dealing can get, just nasty on a jammed up and messy table with demanding players yelling for immediate service first and out of order. It can get nuts.

Stickmen/women who run over base dealers are shunned, and it is sometimes done to make a dealer look bad or slow, more often just from bad dice dealing habits from a moron on stick. Never acceptable, regardless. Hence a short moment allowed for dice setting.
Now, if center prop bets need to be paid out, this will help prevent some "base dealer run over," as its done last in a bang-bang-bang action, with the stick having calculated the needed payouts as he base dealers did their own take and pays, which can get real busy and hairy. Actually this is why Graveyard/Overnight shift is good: one or two players max each side at 5:30AM on a Tuesday morning, eminently doable!

A NOTE TO MIKE: A Man "Eric" bought into the crap table at 4AM tonight, saying he watched the "MIKE SHACKLEFORD EXCELLENT CRAP GAME TEACHING VIDEOS," and is here to play when no one is around, and is going to make don't pass bets with one or two DC bets; he did so for 90 minutes, doing great. A reeal quick study is a testament to Mike's video, for all that was said here: this was real world at a Station's property. The player absolutely insisted that the Pace of Mike's video was really perfect for training new players, and keeping them interested.
When I shipped the dice to him, he then saw me and shat his pants, as if I came out of the videos he was just talking about! (Mike used me on the videos as a crap dealer. He then said "Dan? Holy Sh]t, you lost a ton of weight from when you did that video with Mike and Angela." Eff me! This is 100% true, the player played on his card, and crap dealer Frank M. (formerly of the Horseshoe) was on 2nd base. And I did not hit him with the stick, but thanked him, as he was one of the few to notice.

The player then spent half his time perfecting his DC/don't bet knowledge (again saying Mike's video was super, and was at a GREAT pace for new learners, and wasn't slow at all or in the least!)

The other half of the time the player was asking a lot of questions about Angela Wyman. Frank asked why all the questions about this Angela, and I told Frank he has to see the videos to get that. And Yes, the player did discuss "short-sticking" with us. Then Frank got it and laughed.

Quote: Mission146

If there is some great deity, or more than one, he/she/they should have made his/her/their presence more immediately obvious.

What if God/Devil is simply our interpretation of the religion as it exists, itself?

Quote: QFIT

I go along with Douglas Adams:

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

"There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

Can't have a universe which is solved, ie, one without problems.