HorseJeff
HorseJeff
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Thanks for this post from:
LuckyPhow
November 17th, 2016 at 12:41:37 PM permalink
Scenario: I'm strolling through an empty downtown LV casino on a quiet weekday morning. Not a soul in the pit and only a few all-nighters playing slots. There is an empty craps table with 3 employees bored out of their mind.

Situation: they aren't going to allow me to walk up to the table and simply place a field bet. I must also bet a pass or don't pass wager.

My question: Why? Considering that they have a greater edge over me (especially if it's a rare table where the 12 only pays double on the field) on the FB than the P/DP it seems that they would actually encourage me to place the FB.

Again, I'm not talking about other players being at the table where it's necessary to establish a point; it's just me.

There must be some logic behind this that I'm missing.

Thanks for your theories/explanations.
The only thing more pathetic than watching a gambler who's afraid to lose is watching a gambler who is afraid to win. And I've seen plenty of both.
GWAE
GWAE
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November 17th, 2016 at 1:01:30 PM permalink
because them are the rules.

You must have line to shoot. What if you are throwing and others walk to the table. Are they supposed to take the dice off of you?

Not sure if it is in the official rules with Nevada but if the games rules say you must have line to shoot then they are breaking the rules and could be fined.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
HorseJeff
HorseJeff
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November 17th, 2016 at 1:09:08 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE


What if you are throwing and others walk to the table. Are they supposed to take the dice off of you?



Sure, I'd have no gripe with that.
The only thing more pathetic than watching a gambler who's afraid to lose is watching a gambler who is afraid to win. And I've seen plenty of both.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 17th, 2016 at 1:11:45 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE


Not sure if it is in the official rules with Nevada but if the games rules say you must have line to shoot then they are breaking the rules and could be fined.


It's the official rule on every crap table, shooter must have a line bet (pass or don't pass), then may add prop/place/field bets.

The shooter is going FOR for AGAINST the pass/don't pass line result as the basis for the game.

It's similar to a blackjack game: you have to have a main bet to play the 21+3/Lucky Lucky/Bust It side bet.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
RS
RS
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November 17th, 2016 at 2:21:49 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

It's the official rule on every crap table, shooter must have a line bet (pass or don't pass), then may add prop/place/field bets.

The shooter is going FOR for AGAINST the pass/don't pass line result as the basis for the game.

It's similar to a blackjack game: you have to have a main bet to play the 21+3/Lucky Lucky/Bust It side bet.



Is that the actual rule for the game (craps), or is it a casino rule? Some casinos allow you to play pairs plus on TCP without an ante, while others require an ante if you want to play PP side bet.

I'm not sure which it is, but, I have seen casinos allow a player to shoot the dice without a line bet at all (ie: not even husband/wife/friend with a line bet). It would typically be because the player is about tapped out (and a big player), so he wants to give it one last hoorah and throw a few hundred on the 12 or something.
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
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November 17th, 2016 at 8:38:04 PM permalink
Here is a pdf of New Jersey's rules for craps. It says, "13:69F-1.8 Throw of the dice
Upon selection of the dice, the shooter shall make a Pass or Don't Pass Bet..."
RS
RS
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Thanks for this post from:
LuckyPhow
November 18th, 2016 at 12:38:39 AM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

Here is a pdf of New Jersey's rules for craps. It says, "13:69F-1.8 Throw of the dice
Upon selection of the dice, the shooter shall make a Pass or Don't Pass Bet..."



Indeed it does. However, there's an interesting caveat (sort of), which reads:

Quote: 13:69F-1.11 b)

If a shooter, after making the Come Out Point elects not to place a Pass
or Don't Pass Bet, and other wagers remain on the table with respect to Come and/or
Don't Come numbers, the craps stickperson or the mini-craps dealer or stickperson shall
offer the dice to the player immediately to the left of the previous shooter, as provided
for in (c) below. If there are no other players at the table, or if no other players at the
table elect to make a Pass or Don't Pass Bet in order to shoot the dice and continue the
game, the previous shooter shall be allowed to shoot the dice without a Pass or Don't
Pass Bet only for the purpose of effecting a decision on the remaining Come and/or
Don't Come Wagers. The On/Off marker shall be placed on the Don't Pass Line in the Off
position in front of the shooter in order to indicate that the shooter is rolling the dice
only to effectuate a decision for those wagers remaining on the layout. Once the
remaining Come and/or Don't Come Wagers have been decided or a player wishes to
place a Pass or Don't Pass Bet, the game shall proceed in accordance with N.J.A.C.



IE: If you're shooting, make the point, and decide not to make another line bet, the dice get passed to the next player who makes a line bet. If no one wants to make a line bet (or no one else at the table), then the original shooter can continue shooting if there are active come/don't-come wagers, but a point will not be marked, instead, the puck should be placed on the don't-pass line in front of the shooter.


So this begs the question -- do those bets' odds (comes/DCs) have action on the first roll? o_O




Are the regs posted for craps in Nevada? A quick google search shows a post here at WOV from AlanMendelson saying they don't exist and also a link to his site (alan best buys) talking about it. But that was also 5 years ago.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 18th, 2016 at 7:30:41 AM permalink
You need a line bet in order to throw the dice yourself.
It is a rule of the game. The dealers will explain this to help it be understood.

The Come bets/DC bets operate the same way: they have action on the "come-out roll," which may appear to be mid-game for the pass line bets, so:

On a new come bet, it will lose on a 2, 3, or 12, and win on an 11 or a 7-out, which is called a "Last Come bet," and is paid right in the Come box.

On a new DC bet, it'll win on a 2 or 3, push on a 12, and lose on an 11 or a 7-out.

The odds on the existing come bets (that have moved up to their numbers) do not have action on the come-out (called "Save the Odds" if a come-out 7 is rolled, and only pay on the flat bet part if a come-out number hits the bet), and are returned on a come-out winner-7, unless you declared them "working on the come-out."

DC bets and their odds are always working.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
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November 18th, 2016 at 7:41:50 AM permalink
I understand it the rule of the game, but my question is why is it a rule? Especially in the scenario the OP describes. If the table is empty, and someone would want to bet the field or some one roll prop bet, why would the casino be against it letting them try to hit it? If a pass/don't pass shooter walked up, the next roll would be on them.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 18th, 2016 at 7:53:43 AM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

I understand it the rule of the game, but my question is why is it a rule? Especially in the scenario the OP describes. If the table is empty, and someone would want to bet the field or some one roll prop bet, why would the casino be against it letting them try to hit it? If a pass/don't pass shooter walked up, the next roll would be on them.



It is because the shooter is shooting FOR or AGAINST the point number that is established, and this game rule is enforced in play, just like requiring a main blackjack bet in order to play the side bet.

It doesn't have to make sense to the player. It doesn't even have to make sense to the casino dealers. It's like the requirement that ten men must form a minyan for the temple to have a praying congregation, as nine won't do. God said so, and here the casino says so, and there you go. Also similar to when a priest says "it's one of the mysteries of the church....make Nine First Fridays so that you can go to heaven...." You can ask, "But WHY, oh why..."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

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