great job

I would like to congratulate the guys on here that are always critical
about anything said that does not meet their narrow minded
expectation about what can happen at a craps table and what a good
shooter can or can't do.

You have driven off every decent craps player.....

great Job....... now you can sit and talk about whether or not you should
be $54 across or put it all on the line hoping for the big quick score.

You have made this the perfect forum for new craps players..

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

You have driven off every decent craps player.....

dicesetter

Then what are you still doing here ;)

That's funny

A "decent" "good" or "smart" craps player will NEVER play craps.

Quote: dicesitter

I would like to congratulate the guys on here that are always critical
about anything said that does not meet their narrow minded
expectation about what can happen at a craps table and what a good
shooter can or can't do.

You have driven off every decent craps player.....

great Job....... now you can sit and talk about whether or not you should
be $54 across or put it all on the line hoping for the big quick score.

You have made this the perfect forum for new craps players..

dicesetter

I haven't had much craps discussion nor commented on any hot topics such as "good shooters" or "dice setting," but I probably view it the same way... Give me any kind of real proof (throw 50,000 rolls and beat expectation clearly) and I'd hop on board. The fact that no one has EVER been able to do this is pretty obvious what the truth of the matter is. Occam's Razor...

That being said I'd never want to drive someone from a site, and I encourage open discussion. If you're going to make claims in BJ, VP, Craps, Slots, online gambling, or whatever, by in large the majority here expects you to be able to back up those claims. If that's what drives people from the site, then it's not us, it's a lack of evidence that's shunning them from continuing their arguments.

Quote: dicesitter

I would like to congratulate the guys on here that are always critical
about anything said that does not meet their narrow minded
expectation about what can happen at a craps table and what a good
shooter can or can't do.

You have driven off every decent craps player.....

great Job....... now you can sit and talk about whether or not you should
be $54 across or put it all on the line hoping for the big quick score.

You have made this the perfect forum for new craps players..

dicesetter

Good shooter? No such exists. No bad shooters, either.

All those dice setters, and craps still survives. I don't get it.

Don't beat up the game of craps. It is a ton of fun and has a vibe that is hard to match anywhere else in the casino, or so I've been told.
I don't play craps ;-)

I've never played craps. Just never looked like fun to me - all those people crowding around, screaming "easy six" or "Easy eight". Too much noise for my tastes.

dicesitter who has been run off who's a "decent player"?

Dicesitter (no1 cares)
Ahigh (not because of craps)
Alan (no explanation necessary)

"GREAT JOB" I agree.


If the forum and it's members that was (a forum that was originally dedicated to making gamblers smarter) has successfully quelled the BS'ers

I call that a Victory.

DI=bunk, If not whomever is actually doing it should be jumping for joy.

You should be happy because if the casinos really though DI was possible, you wouldn't get to attempt it.

Craps is FUN

I like rooting for a seven

Blackjack is FUN

I like getting BJs and getting paid

You can quantify how much of an advantage you have in blackjack, and make money doing so.

Not in craps. It's just FUN

I sound like mustangsally, someone hit me. With a monkey on my 11.

Quote: djatc

Craps is FUN

I like rooting for a seven

Blackjack is FUN

I like getting BJs and getting paid

You can quantify how much of an advantage you have in blackjack, and make money doing so.

Not in craps. It's just FUN

I sound like mustangsally, someone hit me. With a monkey on my 11.

What're you talking about? I bet I can play craps with a significant advantage. :)

Quote: RS

What're you talking about? I bet I can play craps with a significant advantage. :)

How many yo's in a row?

Quote: djatc

How many yo's in a row?

Yos are easy. I shoot for 12's, boxcars baby!!

Quote: AxelWolf

You should be happy because if the casinos really though DI was possible, you wouldn't get to attempt it.

This is my argument against DI. If even 1 person could accomplish it (not 1%, 1), then the casinos would take drastic measures to ensure it couldn't happen - you would throw the dice out of a cup. Like Yahtzee.

Quote: BasesLoaded

This is my argument against DI. If even 1 person could accomplish it (not 1%, 1), then the casinos would take drastic measures to ensure it couldn't happen - you would throw the dice out of a cup. Like Yahtzee.

Except they already have, and that's why you throw against the rubber bumpers and the rolls don't count otherwise. It was well known in the middle of last century that playing dice without a back wall (e.g., on an army blanket) or with a flat back wall was beatable with a skillful throw. Here's a picture of an elephant shooting craps in 1966 at the Dunes. The pyramids are clearly visible:


The fact is that casinos have made no substantive game protection changes in the table equipment or craps rules in over fifty years. That means they haven't had to. Compare and contrast with the numerous protection-related changes made to blackjack, including dealer peek mirrors and 6-to-5 on naturals. If anyone is out there beating the game of craps with skillful throwing, the casinos haven't noticed any impact to the bottom line. And that doesn't jive with the results claimed by the dice throwing seminar gurus ("You'll have a SRR of 9! You'll have a 20% player edge on the passline!").

Bottom line, I'm with you, I don't think anyone's really doing it. I think lots of people *think* they can control the dice, but that's more wishful thinking than properly-verified evidence.

I still want to test the question of whether a properly-constructed robotic arm could do it (and if not, then neither can a human) but that's a different topic.

Axelwolf


You did not debunk anything, you just looked a little silly.

All the folks that believe otherwise still do, they just do in other
ways and different forums.

The most amazing part of your posting was a comment about dedicating this
site to making gamblers smarter..... I almost fell off my chair...

I am still laughing....

I will check back in few months, if the math of the game changes so you can bet your
way to constant wins... I will be impressed. In the meantime I guess I will sleep better
knowing you have made the average gambler a lot smarter.

dicesetter

I have never seen axel look silly ( well except the one time he was drunk- but that's another story). Di does not exist - sorry you absolutely have no substance to say it's possible ...::: the fact that you say we chased away good members
IE someone who thinks he saw 18 hoes
Another guy who lost 30 hands of blackjack at 30 different tables with thirty different dealers in 30 minutes and I think someone else who hit back to back power all jackpots.
Are we really missing anything? It was their choice to leave...... As of now I'm missing kentry

Quote: dicesitter

The most amazing part of your posting was a comment about dedicating this
site to making gamblers smarter..... I almost fell off my chair...

Well, dedication to a goal and sincere, repetitive effort toward that goal are still no guarantors of success.

But you know all about that.

Quote: Wizardofnothing

IE someone who thinks he saw 18 hoes

A stroll down tropicana ave at night

Quote: djatc

A stroll down tropicana ave at night

Yo, ho!

Yo!

Hey man, I banged EIGHTEEN HO's in a row, one after the other.

I owe it all to the posts on the 'net about dick influencing.

OK, where's number 19?

Quote: dicesitter

Axelwolf


You did not debunk anything, you just looked a little silly.

All the folks that believe otherwise still do, they just do in other
ways and different forums.

The most amazing part of your posting was a comment about dedicating this
site to making gamblers smarter..... I almost fell off my chair...

I am still laughing....

I will check back in few months, if the math of the game changes so you can bet your
way to constant wins... I will be impressed. In the meantime I guess I will sleep better
knowing you have made the average gambler a lot smarter.

dicesetter

IMO your reading comprehension is worst than my spelling and sentence structure.The only time I used the word I was when I said," I call that a Victory. "

Where did I say, I debunked anything?

I would be willing to bet you this site has made gamblers smarter. So why are you laughing?

I propose a bet. We can pick 10 random people of significant education and they can vote whether or not this site has made gamblers smarter gamblers. People can post their experience.

If you have a problem with a majority of the outspoken people on this site why do you wast your time?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I have an idea.

We can make a worthwhile bet. I have a felling we could get as much action as you and the DI believers could handle (significantly more than you could make over thousands of hours of craps play)
Sign a confidentiality agreement with Michael S. AKA the Wizard and prove you can roll better than random. I don't even care if it's not enough to beat the game. Just you or ANYONE prove you can roll better (or worst) than random. Michael S can simple confirm if in fact you can do as you claim .

YOU WON'T....Because YOU CAN'T nor can anyone you know.

I get it,you want to believe it so much because you have a love for craps, you are stubborn because you invested tons of time and money.

Quote: ukaserex

I've never played craps. Just never looked like fun to me - all those people crowding around, screaming "easy six" or "Easy eight". Too much noise for my tastes.

Easy? If I could have booked those bets I could have cleaned up in the past! j/k

don't go ukaserex! ... just kidding!

"<edit> deleted"

math


I agree completely with your comment.

But here is my but...... Just because the world of gambling is full of suckers
does not mean everyone is. Just because 100 people try something and
95 of them fail does not mean something can not be done.

The truth of the matter is very simple, you honestly have no idea whether or
not Alan saw the yo's, you have no idea what my toss can do, you have no idea
what my team mates can do or anything other person in the country can do.
You have no real knowledge of anything except your opinion.
Axel has no idea of anything...except his opinion.

And yes to me Axel looks very silly, I have played 40 years, worked on my shot the last 7-8
I understand what my shot can do and what it certainly cant do.....( laughing) do you think
I am going to believe what Axel says or what I know, when it comes to my shot????

Now I did not say anything about winning or losing or being a life time winner, I have spoken
on this site and others about the ability to alter number arrangements with different sets. Note
this statement did not indicate you can change the number of 7's you get, it does suggest you
can change the specific 7 you get.... I am sure of that.

This does not mean the average person can at this time win more, I suspect for the vast
majority, maybe 95 out of a hundred that can never happen. But the fact that there can
be 5 is exciting. I would much rather listen to our nonsense trying to be one of the 5, than
one of the 95.
As far as casino's not caring. this is nonsense, I have been told not to play at several places, we
had another one close the table to setting 1 month ago. I know dice setting is good for a
casino because the 95 out of a hundred that cant will lose much more than the 5 that can.
But the idea that a casino does not think a players advantage is possible is a lie.

So you guys think you won a battle all you have done it limit the discussion to the art of
the impossible... may make sense to you...not me.

Soon will see something new in the world of craps... it is will be fun and exciting, I am sure
I will not see you or Axel participating because you would not bet on yourself.


dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

And yes to me Axel looks very silly, I have played 40 years, worked on my shot the last 7-8
I understand what my shot can do and what it certainly cant do.....( laughing) do you think
I am going to believe what Axel says or what I know, when it comes to my shot????

I don't think it's true that you "understand what your shot can do". You've never been able to precisely articulate it. Here's another opportunity to address the point:

Q: If you set both dice with five facing up and six facing forward, and you throw them with "your shot", what is the expected probability of each face on each die?

If you can't answer that question, you don't understand anything relevant to "what your shot can do." If you can answer the question, and the answer is "1/6 for both dice" then your shot does exactly what mine does: moves the dice from one end of the table to the other.

Quote:

Now I did not say anything about winning or losing or being a life time winner, I have spoken
on this site and others about the ability to alter number arrangements with different sets. Note
this statement did not indicate you can change the number of 7's you get, it does suggest you
can change the specific 7 you get.... I am sure of that.

Lots of people have spoken about contrails being evidence of aliens in the atmosphere. Doesn't make it true. Your theories are unsupported by any evidence, and handwavy arguments don't work here. If you want anyone to take you seriously you're going to need to actually demonstrate that you can "alter number arrangements with different sets." Not just talk about it.

Because as others have rightly pointed out, it's very easy to delude yourself into believing falsehoods when it comes to randomness. Humans are hardwired to favor confirmation bias. It's just the way we're built. That's why learning to overcome those biases is important when collecting data. I don't think you've done that, but I also don't think you've run anything remotely resembling a correct experiment. All you've done is spend over seven years (!) practicing throwing the dice, without any quantifiable evidence that your time has been effectively spent. That's unfortunate. If all you're holding is a fervent belief that "your shot works," well, that shouldn't be enough. It certainly wouldn't be for me. So you've got two choices. If you don't care what others believe, it's not clear why you keep making unsupported, implausible claims about your dice-control effectiveness. If you do care, it's going to take more than those naked claims to convince anyone.

Quote:

=MathExtremist All you've done is spend over seven years (!) practicing throwing the dice, without any quantifiable evidence that your time has been effectively spent. That's unfortunate.

"Unfortunate" in more ways than one.

He hasn't profited from his efforts.

Which would be OK for a random shooter playing a negative expectation game, but I thought the point of him spending hundreds of hours "practicing" at home was to make money at the casino?

I don't see this thread going anywhere productive, and it seems to be spiraling downward into a morass. All parties have been heard, so I'm closing it. Thank you.