muleyvoice
muleyvoice
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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December 17th, 2015 at 1:55:01 PM permalink
" Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't believe in coincidence." You dont believe in giving full reports on number of hands, rolls, etc.
waasnoday
waasnoday
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December 17th, 2015 at 2:08:46 PM permalink
Casino staff do make mistakes both ways. I know because as part of my audit/regulatory duties, I do investigate any cash variance above $300. We do not have that many (pretty small place) but the shortpays and overpays are made at about the same rate here. In every investigation I have conducted the end result is either the customer is made whole or the casino is. Now this is mainly at the cage so mistakes at tables may be higher but I have also seen the Surveillance reports when mistakes have been caught there and I do follow-up to verify the accuracy of the reports. I highly doubt there is a casino wide conspiracy in the OPs situation but I can definitely see the possibility of a dishonest box person. If the box person is actually stealing then that chip would never have reached the count room. The box person would have palmed it and kept it for himself. That is the simplest explanation and does not need the involvement on any other staff members.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 17th, 2015 at 2:13:51 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Don't bet on it. Once I was coloring up for $300, and the dealer must have had 3 on his mind because it was $300, so he made *three* stacks of $300, for $900 total. The other players dutifully kept their mouths shut. He called it out to the boss, "Color out, $300!" The boss glanced over and said, "Okay," then did a double-take and came up to the table and politely asked the dealer, "How much is that?" The dealer said, "Well it's....... Oh!"

That was at the Four Queens. I liked how the supervisor didn't jump down the dealer's throat for an honest mistake. At Terrible's the floor guy would have boxed the dealer's ears.


I bought in at PGP for $265 once. The dealer cut out $365 and called it out. The supervisor came to the table to verify it and said "go ahead." I took the chips, got a lammer and scurried away.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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December 17th, 2015 at 2:14:50 PM permalink
waas said it better, and with more experience, but I think you busted the boxman, who I would fully expect to palm the chip, as (a lot of the time, anyway) they're also floormen and allowed to have pockets and such in their suits, and to exit the table without showing their palms, and touch other things (like tissues and ashtrays) without clearing as well. Perhaps one or more of the dealers were working with him, perhaps not, but somebody in that transaction was a crook, maybe more than one of them.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Dalex64
Dalex64
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December 17th, 2015 at 2:18:14 PM permalink
Quote: rottenluck

So I had dinner with my good friend last night. Like I said, he is very regimented and systematic in his craps play. Like me, his "systems" have changed over the years. So we both have that in common. Another thing we have in common is this: we both agree that when either one of us is at a craps table, we are almost, like 99% of the time, the guy at the table betting the most money. If the casinos did have methods for cheating, if there is one player the casinos would want to beat, it would be me and him 99% of the time. (Oddly, we barely get free rooms and I was just told to F-off for a room on NYE in Louisiana and apparently my play isn't enough for a Sugar Bowl ticket even though that casino has at least two suites at the Super Dome that I'm aware of, maybe more. Another rant for another thread.)

So I asked him last night. He's a very intelligent guy, basically, have his results been anywhere close to expectation? Low and behold, he too, has consistently hit bad luck for YEARS. His losses are in the high five figures, maybe low six figures. Theoretical hold, he might be down maybe $5k at the most. He's smart, so most of his action is behind the line, with no house edge.

So not only is this never ending cloud of doom and horrible luck hovering over me for life, but that very same cloud of rotten luck just happens to follow him around everywhere he goes too. Wow, that's so odd. Just random happenstance, I'm sure.



If the casinos did have a method of cheating, and they wanted to target the person who was betting the most on the table, then you should not be that person, and in fact should bet slightly less than that person, and make the opposite bet.
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
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December 17th, 2015 at 2:28:51 PM permalink
Fifteen years ago I read a book by Barney Vinson of interesting casino stories. What I remember from it is that most cheating in the casino is by dealers, not customers. One story in particular I remember is how once a dealer sneezed and a mucus-laden $100 chip (that had been in his mouth) went flying across the room.
rottenluck
rottenluck
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December 17th, 2015 at 2:46:06 PM permalink
Quote: muleyvoice

" Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't believe in coincidence." You dont believe in giving full reports on number of hands, rolls, etc.



Ok, since you seem to think my total win/loss percentage matters: On progressives we made a total of 47 wagers the other day. We won 18, tied on 2 and lost 27. Overall win percentage: 40%

Baccarat, where we never saw 5 losses in a row: 67 wins, 10 ties, 64 losses. Overall win percentage: 51.1%

Overall progressive craps since we started this on 08/29/15: 263 wins, 6 ties, 305 losses. Overall win percentage: 46.30%

Hope that helps.
waasnoday
waasnoday
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
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December 17th, 2015 at 2:47:58 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Fifteen years ago I read a book by Barney Vinson of interesting casino stories. What I remember from it is that most cheating in the casino is by dealers, not customers. One story in particular I remember is how once a dealer sneezed and a mucus-laden $100 chip (that had been in his mouth) went flying across the room.



Ewwww! Definitely believe there is more cheating by dealers than customers. Dealers are probably the weakest link for casinos. Cage staff may handle more funds in the end but the paper trail in place for the cage makes it so much harder for them to steal without it being caught. Dealers and box-men on the other hand do not have an extensive paper trail for every transaction and would be able to hide funds much more easily. Like BBB said the lack of hand clearing and the ability to have pockets just makes it so much easier for these staff members to steal. The current uniform for table staff were I work has always worried me. Long sleeves, large watch bands and pockets just make it too easy.
rottenluck
rottenluck
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December 17th, 2015 at 3:17:59 PM permalink
Quote: Dalex64

If the casinos did have a method of cheating, and they wanted to target the person who was betting the most on the table, then you should not be that person, and in fact should bet slightly less than that person, and make the opposite bet.



That extremely logical argument is exactly the thing that I keep telling myself. My results are screaming otherwise. But this argument says, all dealers would figure it out and hang out in casinos on their days off and make more money betting against the big player than they could make working. It's an extremely logical debunking.
muleyvoice
muleyvoice
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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December 17th, 2015 at 3:22:13 PM permalink
Quote: rottenluck

Ok, since you seem to think my total win/loss percentage matters: On progressives we made a total of 47 wagers the other day. We won 18, tied on 2 and lost 27. Overall win percentage: 40%

Baccarat, where we never saw 5 losses in a row: 67 wins, 10 ties, 64 losses. Overall win percentage: 51.1%

Overall progressive craps since we started this on 08/29/15: 263 wins, 6 ties, 305 losses. Overall win percentage: 46.30%

Hope that helps.




Thanks. pretty obvious no proof of cheating, thats for sure.

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