NokTang
NokTang
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
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October 1st, 2015 at 11:54:51 PM permalink
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2-dealers-2-friends-indicted-173435090.html

Don't see this story here in the craps section, where it belongs. We should never under estimate the willingness of people to take risks and the inability of professional security personnel to notice. Even in an upscale joint like Belagio they were it reads, getting ripped off for a few years. I guess the crooks didn't get greedy but the story doesn't give us the actual wager sizes. Oh well, as Dr. Carson says "You go into prison straight, but you come out gay" which proves cheating is a learned behavior I guess?
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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October 2nd, 2015 at 7:38:08 AM permalink
I'm confused as to how the box boss didn't catch this. It says they were dealers, and I'm assuming meaning the 2 on both sides of the box. Every casino I've been at the box has caught dealer mistakes both for and against me before I'm about to correct them even; they're generally sharp guys in my opinion.

The article talks about passing "late" bets to the box and not identifying the bets until after the roll then paying them. Really, how many times could you get away with this? I've got to figure the box would say "Declare that bet before dice land" or something.

Anyone else think the box had to of been in on it?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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October 2nd, 2015 at 8:02:07 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

I'm confused as to how the box boss didn't catch this. It says they were dealers, and I'm assuming meaning the 2 on both sides of the box. Every casino I've been at the box has caught dealer mistakes both for and against me before I'm about to correct them even; they're generally sharp guys in my opinion.

The article talks about passing "late" bets to the box and not identifying the bets until after the roll then paying them. Really, how many times could you get away with this? I've got to figure the box would say "Declare that bet before dice land" or something.

Anyone else think the box had to of been in on it?

He was to busy looking for DI's and switching in the biased dice.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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October 2nd, 2015 at 8:12:05 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

He was to busy looking for DI's and switching in the biased dice.



Yes, had to have been in on it. He wasn't looking for DI or dice switching at all, but for properly book bets. Oldest trick in the book claiming on unbooked prop bets. Player throws in money to the stick, says "Lemme get a three-way slammy-jammy, a two-way hopping Wazoo, and a curly-cue" as the dice are in there air, and screams when they land: "Yes, I won, my $20 hopping hard six is a winner!" All the stickman has to say is "No bet, no action, return this clown $20 after the roll."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Wingnut
Wingnut
Joined: Jun 21, 2015
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October 2nd, 2015 at 12:45:59 PM permalink
In my experience the craps crews and their supervisors at Bellagio are the worst on the strip. I have personally seen harassment of unskilled dicesetters, ridicule of tokes that don't meet their expectation and always an attitude of some sort or another. Crosstalk that is so blatant, making the game an irritation to them is especially common there.

How could any box or floor allow a player to be paid more than once on a bet that they didn't see or hear booked? I would be amazed if some boxmen and floors were not involved. Almost anything can slide once on a busy game but a million dollars worth? If security and supervisors didn't become suspicious of the same players being paid by the same dealers under these circumstances then a house cleaning should be underway.

Resources are regularly spent catching low level card counters but no one is paying attention to employees stealing seven figures? Where is the training and direction from upper management? Many people were not paying any attention to their jobs.
wilbsmitt
wilbsmitt
Joined: Mar 16, 2015
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October 2nd, 2015 at 1:01:25 PM permalink
"
Quote: Romes

I'm confused as to how the box boss didn't catch this. "




I haven't seen a box person at a strip craps table in years. Dealers now perform the traditional roles of the box person with the pit occasionally helping out.

I wonder if the Belagio savings in not employing a box exceed what the stolen $ were.

RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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October 2nd, 2015 at 1:11:15 PM permalink
It's pretty freakin' easy to get hop-bets past a boxman. As a dealer, most of the time the box person wouldn't know what the hop bets were. I don't know what their layout looks like, but a quick google-image search shows there is no hop-bet area....meaning the bets just gotta be placed in a certain way to show which number is being bet. For example, it is setup as a triangle facing stick-man or box-man for a 3-way 6 or 3-way 8. Some dealers/box people set up a 2-way 9 pointing to the right because 9 is to the right of 5 (on layout). Others set it up pointing to the left, because that's where "9-o-clock" is on a clock.

If someone is primarily only betting hop-bets, he doesn't have to win every single one erroneously. He can throw in 5 chips and get a 3 way 6 or 8, 2 way 5 or 9 or 4 or 10.


PS: A "stick-man" or "stick person" is a dealer.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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October 2nd, 2015 at 1:48:52 PM permalink
Box person is only watching side dice are thrown from most times, stick man responsible for watching players and dealer on side dice land. Most likely was often stickperson and base on side dice are landing working with a player on that side.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
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October 2nd, 2015 at 2:54:35 PM permalink
Quote: Wingnut

In my experience the craps crews and their supervisors at Bellagio are the worst on the strip. I have personally seen harassment of unskilled dicesetters, ridicule of tokes that don't meet their expectation and always an attitude of some sort or another. Crosstalk that is so blatant, making the game an irritation to them is especially common there. ...<SNIP>...

I don't know anything about craps and pit stuff, but that remark is interesting to me because of the foul reputation the property has long had among poker players. The poker room is internationally famous for needlessly uncomfortable basic physical conditions and sh*tty unmerited snooty arrogance and poor treatment of players all the way through any mid-stakes games that aren't quite in "big name player" nosebleed territory. Unfortunately, it is also still the only place in town that regularly spreads games at some stakes & structures. I also found similar "attitude" from the book in the joint.
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
Face
Administrator
Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
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October 2nd, 2015 at 3:11:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wingnut


Resources are regularly spent catching low level card counters but no one is paying attention to employees stealing seven figures? Where is the training and direction from upper management? Many people were not paying any attention to their jobs.



The majority of my 6 years in GamePro was telling men and women with decades of experience that they're doing it all wrong. I was a complete pain in the ass because I would all but refuse (and sometimes did refuse) to count down a player, instead trying to gain some momentum to get more coverage in back of house. Some people do "get it", but there's a lot of old blood complete with old habits that are a bitch to break.

The instant I broke out and got independent, we nabbed a 30yr long fraud totaling in the millions. Guess who were the perpetrators?
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