Going to vegas with a $700-$800 gambling budget...
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With that said that really only gives me about $200 a night...I think I can definitely make that last in BJ. Might be a little tougher on UTH...but craps scares me the most.
I'm looking for a low variance play style with only $200 on a $5 min table at 3-4-5 odds. I obviously want to be able to walk away from the table with something but if I walked away up $200 I'd consider that a big win! What strategy would you use to make playing for 2-3 hours a guarantee (i get there are no guarantees on anything but you know what i mean)?
And I'll take any other advice on any of the other games I mentioned as well...does this just sound like an awful idea...too many games? too little of a budget?
That should last awhile, and help keep your bankroll fairly intact when variance raises its ugly head.
Then again, a two buck high-low on every shooter, with nothing more, while mathematically suicidal should let you play through a couple hundred over a few hours.
BJ and craps have the lowest edge of the table games you mentioned but you will need to find $5 tables which is difficult on the strip. You will need to play very disciplined and know basic strategy in blackjack. If you want to put time in at craps and not go broke you will only be able to play a single number, more than one number or odds will eat your bankroll in minutes on a cold table.
Although the house edge is high you can likely get in your time on the penny slots playing minimum (usually 40 to 60 cents) a spin.
If your 2 to 3 hours a night is not the main goal and you have the discipline to walk out of the casino you can be more aggressive with any of the games but be prepared to have spent your $200 in under an hour.
If you are going to have fun enjoy the holiday and gambling but recognize that your gambling bankroll is part of the cost of your holiday.
This sounds like me! :) I will usually buy in for $100 and start with 1 Pass & 1 Come bet, double odds. If I start winning, up the odds. If I keep winning, introduce another come bet.Quote: v14I'm looking for a low variance play style with only $200 on a $5 min table at 3-4-5 odds. I obviously want to be able to walk away from the table with something but if I walked away up $200 I'd consider that a big win! What strategy would you use to make playing for 2-3 hours a guarantee (i get there are no guarantees on anything but you know what i mean)?
If you lose the initial $100, maybe consider if you want to immediately put the rest of your day's BR at risk, or maybe take a break and come back to hit it later.
Just a few suggestions; nothing guarantees a winning session, or even a losing session that lasts more than a few minutes, but this usually seems to keep me at the tables for a while, and occasionally wins a few bucks. Just remember, increasing your odds increases your variance.
I'm not sure if you can still find a $3 table Downtown, or even if you will be going Downtown, but that would definitely make your buy-in last longer.
Quote: kenarmanFirst kiss your bankroll goodbye as you get off the plane. You are severally under bankrolled for the play you want to get while there. You might get lucky but the most likely scenario is you will go home with the bankroll gone. This isn't a problem if you had fun and are prepared for it.
BJ and craps have the lowest edge of the table games you mentioned but you will need to find $5 tables which is difficult on the strip. You will need to play very disciplined and know basic strategy in blackjack. If you want to put time in at craps and not go broke you will only be able to play a single number, more than one number or odds will eat your bankroll in minutes on a cold table.
Although the house edge is high you can likely get in your time on the penny slots playing minimum (usually 40 to 60 cents) a spin.
If your 2 to 3 hours a night is not the main goal and you have the discipline to walk out of the casino you can be more aggressive with any of the games but be prepared to have spent your $200 in under an hour.
If you are going to have fun enjoy the holiday and gambling but recognize that your gambling bankroll is part of the cost of your holiday.
I agree with most of this. A good game for bankroll preservation or maintenance is Pai Gow Poker. It's a fairly easy game to learn if you have never played it and many of the hands wind up in pushes.
the 2 point MollyQuote: JoemanThis sounds like me! :) I will usually buy in for $100 and start with 1 Pass & 1 Come bet, double odds.
$5 bets with $100 bankroll = 20 betting units
I have data on that 2 (too or 1+1)
Oh ohQuote: JoemanIf I start winning,
that is a BIG IF there
the odds are against that happening, to start winning i due say
ruin looks to sit at 54.3% to 62.8%.
Hey, nothing like starting out in a very deep hole
(as pass/come betting ,to me, is a major sucker bet system)
lots of very large IFsQuote: Joemanup the odds. If I keep winning, introduce another come bet.
If you lose the initial $100, maybe<snip>
nice to imagine
no IF on the lose part
when you lose...
or
when you win
when you are still even
i think the 2 point Molly
$5 bets with 2x odds along with a $100 buy-in just feels wrong
i mean, feels like a loser system
just me on that part
thank you for sharing
of course, you could show a net win after 200 to 300 rolls
(2 to 3 hours of winning)
i show that probability being abouts 32%, still hope
and when you do win with this system, i also show the average win = 34.7 units
the median = 31 units
that is no small change there
Yahoo!
thank you for sharing fun!
so you want to start out with 40 betting units and the 1 point MollyQuote: MathExtremist$800 bankroll for 4 craps sessions, 2-3 hours/session, here's what I'd do.
$200 bankroll, try to find a $5 table. Play just a single line bet with 2x odds;
that gives you about 20 bets (on average) and it's hard to be down 20 line bets in 3 hours.
here is my data in photo form
"and it's hard to be down 20 line bets in 3 hours."
not grasping that
How about ruin after that amount of play?
but there is more MLB tonight
My Angels pushed on the OVER last night
a push
i think they want to go trick-or-treating early this year
I get back after the games
trick or treat!
more more and more
At your $5 table bet $5 on the passline. That's all. You'll be able to cheer on the shooter just like all the big players with $130 and $260 across with $100 on the hardways and $50 come bets. But your fun and excitement will cost you only $5 per shooter.
If you get lucky and win a come out roll then you'll break even on the shooter.
No one said you have to go to Vegas to win a lot of money or to bet a lot of money.
I've enjoyed craps the most when I played my version of what I just told you: In addition to the passline without odds, I also bet the fire bet just in case the shooter gets real lucky.
My version doesn't mean you won't win money. One night at Caesars at a $25 table I bet only $25 on the pass with $10 on the fire. TWICE at that table shooters made FIVE numbers on the Fire for a payoff of $2500 on each shooter, plus I had the wins from the pass line. I call that maximum return for minimal risk. In fact, my total risk on each of those two shooters was only $35.
i disagree 100% with your "you will enjoy the fun of the game"Quote: AlanMendelsonHere is a simple strategy for your bankroll for craps. You won't get rich but you will enjoy the fun of the game. At your $5 table bet $5 on the passline. That's all.
so
no
the probability of that is less than 10% and more likely less than 1% (2%-1%)
why i say this?
experience, i due have lots of it...
I have been to many casino night parties too where the initial excitement is "they have Craps!"
and they (the ones that have never played or played just a tiny bit B4) want to play and are told exactly that
start out small, one pass line bet and root to win
well, after watching roll after roll go by and they do not win, well pickup their chips and head to the BJ table or the poker table
every time
saying always, "this game is boring!"
Alan, it is true,
out of my 300 or so close friends, 299 of them said the same thing betting exactly the way you suggested.
Imagine what playing with real money will do the the first timers flat betting the pass line.
again, you do NOT cheer the shooter when they hit a place number that is not your pass line point number to win. watching other people win and lose and not yourself. NO fun it that in my opinion.Quote: AlanMendelsonYou'll be able to cheer on the shooter just like all the big players with $130 and $260 across with $100 on the hardways and $50 come bets.
again, my point is there IS no fun in this betting system, in my opinion, as well as your opinion too
i due say and a
poll of 1 million other craps players would show that most agree with me, and this is not my idea
this is not true eitherQuote: AlanMendelsonBut your fun and excitement will cost you only $5 per shooter.
I remember exactly the very 1st time I tried to get a group of friends to see how craps is played
$5 pass and 12 was rolled.
they lost and were grumpy
I convinced them it would not happen again and make another bet
next roll a 3 and they all lost their pass line bet again!!!
new bets
the next roll was a 5, finally a point, and the very next roll was a 7 out and they all gathered their remaining chips and went to play BJ and slots.
They all lost $15. (Idid pay them back for it, i felt so bad, kind of)
they were losers playing your suggested system
now what have you to say?
Oh, i see you do win big every now and then, but you have also stated you are a lifetime loser at the game of craps.
so, is that fun?
i bet $5 it IS so much fun!
Sally says
That would rock.
What? Me worry?Quote: AlanMendelsonSally of course you disagree. You always disagree. So don't do it.
haha
make me
admit it,
you just do not like others pointing out how wrong you can B, as an opinion,
you are way older than me as a fact.
now you want others to stop sharing their opinions when they differ from yours?
haha haha ha
pass line bet - NO odds and cheer others as they win and you watch is so fun!
that IS SO FUNNY!
thank you for sharing such funny stuff
Sally stuff
Quote: MrVAlan, are you *really* a lifetime winner at the game of craps?
That would rock.
He believes in DI but no other advantage play, so of course he is.
It is not that someone who makes a point is more likely to do it again, but it is a way to slow your exposure to the house edge.
The OP says that a double up after two hours would be a success, but if he were to hit that goal in 10 minutes, would he quit for the night? I have played 8 hours on a $100 buy in, and I have burned through $100 in two minutes. The dice can make you the king of Las Vegas, or send you to the Keno lounge to scrounge for a seat... Sometimes in the same night. That's why I love the game.
Quote: mustangsallythe 2 point Molly
The internets say 2 points of Molly may be too much for a 1st-timer!
You think so? It's the same font as the rest of the post.Quote:Oh oh
that is a BIG IF there
I count 6 regular-sized ifs, but counting was never my strong suit.Quote:lots of very large IFs
Wait, are you saying it is a system that loses? If(there's that dratted word, again) so, then I concur. Or are you saying it is a system for losers? Because there are tons of better systems for losers in the casino.Quote:i think the 2 point Molly
$5 bets with 2x odds along with a $100 buy-in just feels wrong
i mean, feels like a loser system
just me on that part
thank you for sharing
That sounds about right based on personal experience.Quote:of course, you could show a net win after 200 to 300 rolls
(2 to 3 hours of winning)
i show that probability being abouts 32%
Woohoo! Enough for a bottle of DOM!Quote:and when you do win with this system, i also show the average win = 34.7 units
the median = 31 units
My pleasure, Sally!Quote:thank you for sharing fun!
Quote: MrVAlan, are you *really* a lifetime winner at the game of craps?
That would rock.
Hell no. I don't think there is a lifetime winner at craps and I am certainly not.
However, I have had years when I have had a profit at video poker and lost it at craps. That I admit to.
Quote: AyecarumbaI think Alan's suggestion is sound.
Thanks. The original poster has $200 to play.
Really, do you want him to start making two come bets with full odds for a strategy with the lowest expected house edge?
You have to start getting real.
He has $200.
Sally I am a lot older than you.
Quote: IbeatyouracesHe believes in DI but no other advantage play, so of course he is.
Of course I believe in DI. I can't do it but it doesn't hurt to try.
I also believe in card counting as an advantage play.
What I don't believe is all the claims of APs that involve all the magic that they claim to have.
You could place six and eight for six dollars each: that was my usual play when I started out.
Depending on your level of aggression, you could leave the bets up til a seven out, or take them down, or press them.
I am, though at this point it's probably only up 2k or so because the last few sessions have been bad and I'm betting more. I had a few monster hands years ago and I don't play much, so this is really still a short term swing.Quote: AlanMendelsonHell no. I don't think there is a lifetime winner at craps and I am certainly not.
And to Sally's question, if you're just on the passline for 3 hours, that's about 100 bets. What I meant by "20 bets is hard to lose" is that going 40-60 or worse is pretty unlikely.
Quote: AlanMendelsonOf course I believe in DI. I can't do it but it doesn't hurt to try.
I also believe in card counting as an advantage play.
What I don't believe is all the claims of APs that involve all the magic that they claim to have.
There is no magic. Hell, you don't believe in hole carding from what I'm reading. Thank goodness you don't!!
Quote: IbeatyouracesThere is no magic. Hell, you don't believe in hole carding from what I'm reading. Thank goodness you don't!!
WRONG. I believe there is hole carding. I don't believe the claims of the posters on my site who said that because of hole carding they had to pay $129,000 in income taxes. Let me repeat that: they had to pay $129,000 in income taxes. That doesn't mean that they had wins of $129,000 -- it means that after all their deductions they had to pay $129,000 in taxes.
What's more, because of hole carding they claim to have had a big run of getting quads at Mississippi Stud and they also claimed that sometimes they were able to see the hole card 90% of the time.
Want more? Mississippi Stud is a Shufflemaster game and the claim was made that they were seeing so many hole cards because a human dealer was shuffling and dealing the cards and the cards were not coming out of an automatic shuffler which makes hole carding much more difficult.
Sure I believe in hole carding. But it just doesn't happen the way it was described.
Quote: AlanMendelson...What's more, because of hole carding they claim to have had a big run of getting quads at Mississippi Stud and they also claimed that sometimes they were able to see the hole card 90% of the time.
Want more? Mississippi Stud is a Shufflemaster game and the claim was made that they were seeing so many hole cards because a human dealer was shuffling and dealing the cards and the cards were not coming out of an automatic shuffler which makes hole carding much more difficult.
Sure I believe in hole carding. But it just doesn't happen the way it was described.
This is why you shouldn't get into discussions where you don't know the truth about AP. I used to HC religiously and there are/were many dealers where you could see a HC 100% of the time for their entire shift! Whether it be the game in question, TCP, UTH, BJ, you name it. If you don't think it gives the huge edges listed, deal hands and keep a record. Trust me when I say you'll be amazed! I quit because of the overwhelming amount of heat playing this way. And who owns the game has nothing to do with internal casino dealing procedure. As I've read in that thread, the poster works with a team and not solo, meaning many big players and he/she probably was playing all and more of the games listed above, not just MS.
If you really want to know what to look for, PM me.
On the interwebs everyone is right, everyone is an expert, and everyone makes a lot of money.
Quote: v14Jjust so everyone knows my bank roll lasted forever in Vegas. I played a combination of craps, UTH, BJ and slots every day for roughly 3-4 hours across all 5 days and I never even went negative. Ended up coming home about $140 to the good and probably cycled through a good 5 or 6k in bets. Almost only played $5 tables across the board...played a little $10 craps but all in all my budget was totally fine.
nice! the perfect low-roller results!
kissQuote: kenarmanFirst kiss your bankroll goodbye as you get off the plane.
You are severally under bankrolled for the play you want to get while there.
You might get lucky
but
the most likely scenario is you will go home with
the bankroll gone.
kiss
thank you for sharing some funny thoughts
imo
some (not most) that gamble for money are always lucky (they are born that way)
some are always not-lucky (they are born that way too)
Excellent! Like Babs said, that is a great result. I hope the non-gambling parts of your trip were as enjoyable. Thanks for letting us know how you did!Quote: v14Jjust so everyone knows my bank roll lasted forever in Vegas. I played a combination of craps, UTH, BJ and slots every day for roughly 3-4 hours across all 5 days and I never even went negative. Ended up coming home about $140 to the good and probably cycled through a good 5 or 6k in bets. Almost only played $5 tables across the board...played a little $10 craps but all in all my budget was totally fine.
If you feel so inclined, you could post the details in the Trip Report section and let us all gamble vicariously!
Quote: AlanMendelsonOn the interwebs everyone is right, everyone is an expert, and everyone makes a lot of money.
Shucks.... I've learned far more from being wrong (and being told that I'm wrong) than I have from being right.
And I sure don't make a lot of money.
Quote: DieterShucks.... I've learned far more from being wrong (and being told that I'm wrong) than I have from being right.
And I sure don't make a lot of money.
Yep I surely make no money. Going to vegas in 6 days with a budget of $500. Not gambling budget, total budget. I am going to do a live trip report. It will be the ultimate low roller in vegas.
Quote: GWAEYep I surely make no money. Going to vegas in 6 days with a budget of $500. Not gambling budget, total budget. I am going to do a live trip report. It will be the ultimate low roller in vegas.
You'll be there for G2E. I'll be there Monday through Friday. PM me if you want to meet up sometime. Lots of members meet up at I ❤️ Burgers for dinner on Wednesday.
Quote: mipletYou'll be there for G2E. I'll be there Monday through Friday. PM me if you want to meet up sometime. Lots of members meet up at I ❤️ Burgers for dinner on Wednesday.
Hmmm I had no idea. Is there no thread for that or did I block it since it wouldn't involve me.
Cheers!
Isn't that like that guy with the lamp looking for an honest man?
>> Play just a single line bet with 2x odds; that gives you about 20 bets (on average)
>> and it's hard to be down 20 line bets in 3 hours.
Not for me it ain't.
I'd stay at a casino with a good buffet and a good movie theater.
Or study Pai Gao Tiles... its fifty percent Push. Yet you still get free booze.
Quote: StevenHowdinI think your budget is pretty good, I also had around $200 but ended in big profit, if it goes your way that is!!
Cheers!
I hope your (bot) next trip is (bot) fun and you (bot) win again.
I know this was a joke, but please do remember that virtually every hooker in Vegas is more interested in stealing from her client rather than performing the agreed upon acts.Quote: EdwardjKI'd spend the money on a hooker. You'll enjoy a better out come than playing craps.
Besides craps is far more fun.
And rarely necessitates a trip to the free clinic.Quote: FleaStiffBesides craps is far more fun.
Quote: FleaStiffI know this was a joke, but please do remember that virtually every hooker in Vegas is more interested in stealing from her client rather than performing the agreed upon acts.
Besides craps is far more fun.
Hmmm.
Rolling dem bones, or boning dem holes.
Decisions, decisions.
Of course no one believes any of this unless you contact them and confirm.
Another winning day for me. I only rolled one time myself. Hit 2 points.
Pass line 1X odds. 2 Come bets with 1X odds. As any bet hits, replace that number AND one of the sister numbers with place bets at table minimum. Continue this as the rest of your pass and come bets hit. As your new place numbers hit, use a take and press strategy on every other hit.
I like this way of playing because it is much better than an all across strategy in regard to PSO. Place bets don't come down on a come out seven during a hot roll. This strategy puts you in a position to exploit a hot roll.
Now, to answer your question about playing for most table time. I would make a Don't Pass and lay 1X. One per shooter. Problem is this can be boring unless you just enjoy standing at the table and people watching. I can't think of one strategy that would give you a lot of "guaranteed" table time that is not mundane.
Quote: SiegfriedRoyEllis Island is also a hidden gem. They typically have $5 shoe with 3/2 blackjack all weekend. I do believe its H17 and DAS. Their beer is pretty good. Also, don't miss their $6.99 Steak and Eggs special. Probably one of the best valued eats in Vegas.
+1 Ellis Island has always been my recommendation for low-rolling and great food with great value. Craps table is only open at night though. Video poker is decent on the main floor and the bar. The servers at the cafe are hit and miss. Very generous sign up rewards, if you add the LVA book.
Locals get free pizza and beer on Tues/Sat I think for very little play.
Quote: SiegfriedRoyEllis Island is also a hidden gem. They typically have $5 shoe with 3/2 blackjack all weekend. I do believe its H17 and DAS. Their beer is pretty good. Also, don't miss their $6.99 Steak and Eggs special. Probably one of the best valued eats in Vegas.
the steak and eggs special is great, but they took out all the QQ VP, and downgraded the steak dinner special several times in the last couple years.
i think the 2-for-1 metro pizza on thursdays and sundays is the sole redeeming quality of that spot.
