Thread Rating:

seadragon
seadragon
Joined: Mar 16, 2015
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 14
March 16th, 2015 at 8:51:43 PM permalink
I was in Las Vegas at Aria - great trip. Something happened at the MGM that has had me scratching my head though.

I was playing craps at the 15 dollar table around 2-3:30am last Friday. We had 3 incredible rollers back to back to back (There were a few thousand dollars on the table and even someone playing the darkside). It was an exciting table with lots of action - lots of tips for the dealers too.

The point was six. On the shooters roll, one of the dice came to rest between two piles of chips on it’s edge in the field (each pile of chips was a stack of two). The stick men didn’t know whether it was a six (5 and 1) or a seven (5 and 2). The table was in disagreement about what it was as well, but unanimously felt it should probably be a re-roll, which I believe would be the proper custom in this situation. It was too tall to call.

The Boxman told the stick man to pull one pile of chips away to turn the roll into a seven, and Seven’ed out the table rather than pulling the other pair of chips and making a six, or just letting the shooter re-roll. Either pile could be easily pulled by the stickman. Nevertheless, the stickman obliged the bowman and pulled one pile of chips away making the dice fall to a 2, making it a seven.

The table exploded - people we yelling at the boxman and the game grinded to a halt. The stickman and base dealers didn't want to collect the money - in fact they didn't touch it for 5 minutes. The table demanded security footage to be reviewed and when the base dealers and stickman finally did start picking up the money, some of the players tried to push behind the table to get in the boxmans face. The table refused to put new bets down for a new come out roll - it was wild!

***Was this the right call?***
***If not, what is the right call?***
***Can anything be done?***

I wrote the MGM to inform them of the events (which I'm sure are all recorded on the security footage). I know they won't do anything (I'm sure they get lots of complaints about losses at the casino), but wanted to gone on record.
sc15
sc15
Joined: Sep 28, 2014
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 594
March 16th, 2015 at 9:08:44 PM permalink
Don't write to MGM.

Write to gaming. (If this is true, I highly doubt this story is true).
mustangsally
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
  • Threads: 25
  • Posts: 2463
March 16th, 2015 at 9:17:56 PM permalink
Quote: seadragon

The table was in disagreement about what it was as well, but unanimously felt it should probably be a re-roll, which I believe would be the proper custom in this situation. It was too tall to call.

no re-roll unless the die was actually NOT touching the table
i have seen this a few times actually


i say
total blame is on all the pass line players at the table

players make the field bet themselves and should always leave space between different stacks of chips, i have dealers tell players many times this when their odds are too close to their pass line bet


so, 1% fault on the dealers

and 99% fault on all the pass line players
so i guess about 9% is your fault

unless you want to take all the fault for this happening

i was not there
so 0% fault for me

Oh, one may think I'm (Sally Oh) an idiot? (Ren and Stimpy lesson - they funny too)

i might just B 1

Mully

oh, yes
the right call is what the boxman says
I Heart Vi Hart
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 2778
March 16th, 2015 at 9:21:31 PM permalink
Were the dice leaning one way or the other? The rules state that if it comes to rest on an object in the field of play, the call is whatever the dice would be if the object were moved. If it was touching the 5-1 side chips, but the chips that would have it 5-2 were the one holding them up, then it's the correct call. It's difficult to get a visual from the description given.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
March 16th, 2015 at 9:30:25 PM permalink
Whichever way it is leaning towards (more) than the other. Without actually seeing the dice and how they lied, then idk if it was the correct decision or not. But, they are not supposed to move the chips in moving the dice.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
March 16th, 2015 at 10:30:18 PM permalink
Imagine all such objects are ice cubes.... as they slowly melt ... what will happen to the die.

It is a judgment call... its like a die bouncing off a girl's sweater. If its tightly woven, the roll counts. If its a loose, fuzzy weave that interferes with the progress of the die, its a no-roll.

Boxman's word is supposed to be final. Period.

Gaming calls for sums above 500 would have shut the table until an agent arrives.
dfwbird
dfwbird
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 19
March 16th, 2015 at 10:31:35 PM permalink
Reminds me of the 3am flamingo 'momentum' call! My buddy was not having a good session. He's degened/drank himself into a monkeystack the field strategy. $1500 on the field... Dice fly down the table... one comes to a stop against the base of the wall and I swear it was literally on its edge. Truly impossible to call as far as I can tell. Stick looks at box, who calls momentum and a loser for my buddy. Buddy explodes MOMENTUM! WHAT THE F#$% DO YOU MEAN MOMENTUM??!!! IF THERE WAS ANY F#$%ING MOMENTUM LEFT IN THAT F#$%ING DIE IT WOULDN'T F#$%ING BE LEANING AGAINST THE F#$%ING WALL! Might of had to leave after that.

Had those kinda calls go either way. Just sucks to get one go against you on a stupid large bet or when the tables hot!
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 19995
March 16th, 2015 at 11:12:33 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff



Gaming calls for sums above 500 would have shut the table until an agent arrives.

What's that supposed to mean? Gaming usually comes within a reasonably amount of time with 1 call. I have seen them come on absolutely ridiculous calls.

One time gaming control came out because some guy was playing a Double Diamond slot machine that had car symbols on it, 3 car symbols won the car. The machine clearly stated wild symbols didn't count towards the car. He got double Diamond double Diamond car symbol and he wanted 4 cars and claimed the double Diamond wasn't wild.

I have called gaming quite a few times, they have came out each time and have sided with me most of the time, except on 2 occasions.

Is seems to be agent dependent on the derision making, if you don't like the decision there's an appeal process.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
sc15
sc15
Joined: Sep 28, 2014
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 594
March 16th, 2015 at 11:16:53 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

What's that supposed to mean? Gaming usually comes within a reasonably amount of time with 1 call. I have seen them come on absolutely ridiculous calls.

One time gaming control came out because some guy was playing a Double Diamond slot machine that had car symbols on it, 3 car symbols won the car. The machine clearly stated wild symbols didn't count towards the car. He got double Diamond double Diamond car symbol and he wanted 4 cars and claimed the double Diamond wasn't wild.

I have called gaming quite a few times, they have came out each time and have sided with me most of the time, except on 2 occasions.

Is seems to be agent dependent on the derision making, if you don't like the decision there's an appeal process.



lol, I'm sure after that they clarified the text to say explicitly it has to be 3 cars and that double diamond symbols don't count towards it.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 311
  • Posts: 8621
March 17th, 2015 at 4:28:43 AM permalink
I have the suspicion that many dealers are trained to quickly call a '7' if there is doubt. Perhaps that training is indirect, such as having other dealers give you the lowdown privately on 'how to keep your job'.

So in this case the dealers who wouldnt make the call were messing with a boxman they didnt like?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

  • Jump to: