guitarmandp
guitarmandp
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 187
January 15th, 2015 at 2:53:09 AM permalink
There's this dealer that has been dealing at the casino I go to since it opened 2 years ago, and he worked at another local casino for over 10 years prior to that. I did not like the guy personally because I could tell he did not like me. He rooted for me to loose! I'd have $100 on the don't pass and there would be 3 people at the table with 2 other people playing the passline for $10 and he'd smile and laugh when they'd roll a Yo on the come out roll. If I won he'd say "You should be ashamed of yourself". He always knew I was a Van Halen fan (I'm only a fan of DLR era Van Halen) so he would always put down Van Halen to me.

Anyways I was surprised to find out that he was arrested for helping a player steal $80,000 from the casino. I was told by a dealer at another casino, whose brother is a boxman/floor manager at the casino that this dealer was busted at. Anyways this player would hand the dealer $100 and he would book him for $270 across, or he'd hand the dealer two black chips and get booked for $540 across. The player would then take all his bets down after one hit. This player would always be at whatever side his dealer friend was at, and the dealer wasn't taking his 20 minute breaks. Anyways the casino did an investigation and they took the casino for $80,000 with this scam.

Anyways they arrested him while he was doing stick! Can you imagine you are playing craps and they arrest the stickman! I was told that the casino knew about this for a few months but let it go on while they continued to build their case and see if other people were involved with the scam. I'm told that some dealers and bowmen might be getting fired over this for not catching it.

Some gamblers speculated that they probably arrested him at the table instead of knocking on his house or apartment door to set an example with other employees.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 312
  • Posts: 8647
January 15th, 2015 at 3:26:50 AM permalink
the dealer in that "dice dominator" episode comes to mind LOL
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
January 15th, 2015 at 4:13:09 AM permalink
There's gotta be a whole slew of problems in order for this type of thing to occur, at least as it is presented in the OP. Not saying it isn't true, but am very skeptical.

Your first line of defense against cheating and whatnot is other dealers and boxman at the table. They are supposed to correct errors, help each other with payouts, and ensure everything happens properly (ie: "You shorted the guy $1 on the hook when paying the line" or "that pays $119 not $121" or "that hard 10 that just came in is two from you not three-from" etc.). Same goes with when setting up bets and whatnot. If someone throws in $86 and says "$96 accross including", the base dealer might not be thinking clearly and go ahead and set it up, while the stickperson and boxman should fix the error.

The kind of "error" mentioned is a significant error and very easy to spot. I mean, come on. Either there was something very wrong with the dealers, they were all getting paid off, or....I don't even know.

But let's say it did somehow slip through the cracks and the box person + other dealers never caught this "$100 for $270 accross" stuff. You still have surveillance. I would suspect if this happened, the first time surveillance caught it, they would phone down stairs to the pit, and tell the pit boss of the "error". I would assume the pit boss would correct the error or do something about it.

And lastly, you have OTHER PLAYERS at the table. Frequently enough, people will say "I had the same bet he had, how come he got paid more than I did?!?" I'd imagine a player at this casino would see the error and make a fuss. It only takes one (although I'd imagine there'd be several players that'd spot the error...and at least one of them would report the dealer or make a huge stink over it).


My last point isn't too strong, but, what kind of a retarded scam is this anyway? How stupid would you have to be to come up with this idea? I mean, at least do something strange to disguise it as a dealer error. Maybe have the guy bet $168 on the 6 and $246 on the 8, and overpay him like that. Or accept "next roll hop bets", where the player drops money as dice are being thrown, mumbles something, dealer yells "Bet!", no one else knows what's going on, and whatever the next number that is rolled, the bet magically appears on that number. IE: Drop $50 as dice are in the air. If they land on a 5 or 9, book it as a two way 5 and 9. If it's a 6 or 8 book it as a $15 3-way 6 and $15 3-way 8. Etc. Or hell, even get a group of people that all make ridiculous prop bets ($24 3-way 7, $32 horn, $22 CE), then over-pay the player(s). Or accidentially double-pay a player. Or don't take down a bet when it should be taken down, or take/move them in the wrong way. (IE: Hard ways are $5 each. If a hard 6 or 8 hits, press all the hard ways $10 and give the player $25 [instead of $5].)

The thing with craps is, you can make so many bets and make it super confusing, especially if the layout is poorly designed (no hop box, small horn box, etc.), that if even the box person is damn near the best there is, he wouldn't be able to keep up. Most of the time the box person just makes sure everything is happening "good enough". If someone over or underpays someone on a weird bet, especially on some weird press, he's likely not paying good enough attention to spot it. But he will make sure that each bet is paid or taken appropriately, but not necessarily if the amount is correct.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 228
  • Posts: 12528
January 15th, 2015 at 5:03:22 AM permalink
The scene in "Casino" comes to mind when the slots get cheated and Rothstein (Rosenthal) says, "Either you were too dumb to see what was going on or else you were in on it! Either way, you're out!"

I find it hard to believe the box or stick never caught that $100 turned into $270. On the one hand this kind of bet would keep the dealer's hands in his working stacks and out of the bank. OTOH when you buy in the boxman is supposed to watch you spread the cash and cheques each and every time. I can see getting away with this once or twice on a busy night, but not over and over. When you buy in for blacks the box is supposed to log where the cheques went.

The other dealers had to either be in on it or were told the parking garage is a dangerous place and it would be a shame if a couple dudes mugged and beat them after a hard day on the floor. I can see the guys manning the eye missing it, but the box and floor not so much.

As to arresting him on the floor, that is bad for business. Arrest him in the dealer's break room. Players do not need to see that, very bad for business. I think I read that back in the day in vegas there was only one mafia-connected guy arrested on the floor, the others were asked to go to the back room and talk.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
guitarmandp
guitarmandp
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 187
January 15th, 2015 at 6:06:26 AM permalink
Somebody, perhaps management caught it early on and they decided not to do anything while they built their case. I'm guessing the casino wanted to see if other boxman or dealers were in on the scam.

I was told that some of the dealers and box men will probably be fired over this. It is a fact that the casino got taken for $80,000 and I would expect to hear a lot more about this in the coming months as the casino is prosecuting.

And btw: I've had some dealer errors before come out significantly in my favor. One time I had my 10 pressed up to $200 but my 6 was only at $60 and a 6 rolled and the dealer thought a 10 rolled and paid me with 4 black chips.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 312
  • Posts: 8647
January 15th, 2015 at 7:07:38 AM permalink
Quote: guitarmandp

the dealer thought a 10 rolled



these are some weird errors ... maybe the guy thought "hey, he'll keep his mouth shut"

but like has been said, these kinds of errors are very detectable, what the ...
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 262
  • Posts: 8918
January 15th, 2015 at 8:06:23 AM permalink
Well, remember, errors are detectable because they are mistakes and are openly done.

When a hustle is going on, it is pre-meditated. What I am getting at, is while the other dealers should have caught it, likely, the actions were purposefully undertaken when the moment was just right. When the dealer, from his experience, knew his co-workers were distracted.

Possibly, one co-worker did catch and is the reason this came out, alerting the pit boss that there was something funky going on. We won't know till the facts come out.

As for other players blowing the whistle, probably unlikely. Players are too busy in their own bets and many would assume the dealer knows what he is doing.
Plus, many don't care or are rooting for theft from the casino as they are losing their money gambling. In "American Roulette", Richard Marcus states many times that the players were the last people they worried about. They had a rat amongst the players once a decade. Most of the time they saw something they kept quiet, even smiled at them as they capped and past-posted.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 191
  • Posts: 10547
January 15th, 2015 at 8:44:45 AM permalink
Quote: guitarmandp

And btw: I've had some dealer errors before come out significantly in my favor. One time I had my 10 pressed up to $200 but my 6 was only at $60 and a 6 rolled and the dealer thought a 10 rolled and paid me with 4 black chips.

Maybe that was a test. Or hush money.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Joeman
Joeman
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2009
January 15th, 2015 at 8:50:46 AM permalink
Quote: guitarmandp

... and the dealer wasn't taking his 20 minute breaks.


How common is this? I've never seen a dealer refuse a break. Seems like it would surely draw attention.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
Venthus
Venthus
Joined: Dec 10, 2012
  • Threads: 23
  • Posts: 1111
January 15th, 2015 at 9:11:14 AM permalink
I'd've tried booking the same bet, in the same fashion, to see what happened.

  • Jump to: