LONGER shooting time ?

Assuming that most players like to be the shooter ...

I would think that most players would prefer their roll to be LONG and all the other players to have SHORT rolls,
so they could maximize how much time they are the shooter while at the table.

But, it doesn't always work that way.

I've heard people say they like a hot table, but hate to be waiting for their turn to shoot (I would wait and be betting a lot),
and I've heard people say they don't mind a choppy table, because they get to shoot more often.

So, the poll is to help me know what stroke to use while
I am swimming up stream trying to come up with a Craps variant ...

If the game were to be changed so that the "Seven-Out" number has fewer ways to be rolled (say 5 instead of 6),
that would statistically make each shooters roll longer.


1) Would you prefer longer possible rolls, meaning more shooting time for yourself, but also more non-shooting time?

2) What if during the longer rolls, the Place bets and Odds bets having much larger payouts, but as a tradeoff they hit less often.
Place bets paying 24:5, and Pass Odds bets paying 5 to 1. Would that be preferred?

3) Are you a "LEAVE CRAPS ALONE" type that doesn't even allow a Yahtzee game in the house because it is blasphemy?
Craps should NEVER be changed (OK to have 101 different poker and bj variants with their 101 sidebets, but NOT FOR CRAPS).

4) Are you OK with roll times as they are, but having some larger payouts would be nice (even though they hit less often)?

5) Would you prefer a lot of different chances of getting a HOT roll going, so rolls being shorter but more often is OK?
The "Seven-Out" number having more ways to be rolled (say 10 instead of 6) could do this.

6) Would shorter rolls, but easier to hit Place numbers be what you would play?
Crapless craps, or no crap craps offer more Place number hits.

There should be a, I would like to avoid craps as much as possible because beating craps is next to impossible unless you have something extra going on.

No such thing as a hot shooter or choppy table until after the fact.

If people want to shoot for fun that's wonderful. They really don't need to think about it much, learn the best bests to make and just have fun.

PSO's all night long, thank you.

I like to shoot with one other player preferably a don't shooter. That way I get my breaks and he don't get rich.

.....

If you want more shooting time show up at 6AM. If you want less shooting time show up at 6PM. It's not rocket science. See you tomorrow morning!

And oh what is this crap about more money on the place bet? Buy the number, pay a small vig on a win, again not rocket science.

The math says that a shooter will throw the dice an average of 8.5 times so no matter what your opinion is it wont matter. If your asking for purposes of just asking of course i would want someone to shoot longer if im a pass better and less if im a dont better.

Quote: spadeknight

The math says that a shooter will throw the dice an average of 8.5 times so no matter what your opinion is it wont matter. If your asking for purposes of just asking of course i would want someone to shoot longer if im a pass better and less if im a dont better.

The math says 8.5 times for Casino Craps, but the variants that I am working on change the math ...

the main purpose of the first one I posted was to lengthen a shooters roll ...
the math says 20.3 times for 2nd Chance Craps^sm, which is a lot more ! (Thanks for the math work mustangsally)

I'm asking because I have a couple other game ideas that I am working on, and there are a lot of different opinions about shooting time. I want to see what the MASSES would prefer.

Hope you voted above .... thanks

.....

When I walk up to a table and make my first bet, I pray that the current shooter will hold the dice for the next 36 hours. Why would I want to shoot when the current shooter is doing all the good work?

This is the most worthless poll since the peoples choice was "I am a bigot"

If you had a poll option of, "I don't care if I have to wait, as long as I make a boatload of money" it would certainly lead the poll. Players don't mind waiting as long as they are winning. If your variants reduce payouts or increase the house edge on the traditional game, I fear they will ultimately fail. It makes it harder to win compared to the alternatives.

Can any variant reduce the house edge on traditional Craps any further, and still find a casio manager willing to try it? The loss on the edge would have to be made up in volume. Can your games lower the house edge and raise the total player exposure?

Nevertheless, I wish you luck with your new ideas. Keep moving forward.

The only improvement to craps would be the ability to buy extreme numbers while still in the game of craps, not crapless. Would a casino give up a horn bet vig for a buy bet with a 1-2% vig? I'm not holding my breath. Of course you could have both, crapless does, and some fools do make horn bets playing crapless.

Most people want a 50/50 chance to win because it's hard to understand other chances to win for most people. The further off it goes, in either direction, the fewer people will understand the bet.

The beauty of craps is that many people think they still have closer to a 50/50 chance to win after the point is established and continue betting accordingly.

The whole notion of losing EV on a pass line bet or a come bet that travels is foreign to more than 50% of all craps players.

Quote: NewToCraps

The math says 8.5 times for Casino Craps, but the variants that I am working on change the math ...

the main purpose of the first one I posted was to lengthen a shooters roll ...
the math says 20.3 times for 2nd Chance Craps^sm, which is a lot more ! (Thanks for the math work mustangsally)

One can easily calculate these values too.

Just multiply

the average number of pass decisions (come out rolls or games) per shooter (7out)
that simply = 1/prob of a 7out

by

the average number of rolls per game (pass decisions)

Don Catlin shows here how easily this can be done using a data table
http://catlin.casinocitytimes.com/article/how-long-is-a-craps-roll-1240

The rest is hertory!
Sally

Oh, more 7 outs per shooter

Quote: Ayecarumba

Can any variant reduce the house edge on traditional Craps any further, and still find a casio manager willing to try it?

a variant on traditional Craps
I say yes

"and still find a casio manager willing to try it?"
and yes
no problem

many Casio managers can also be found at a local Karaoke night event.
I know of many

Quote: Ayecarumba

The loss on the edge would have to be made up in volume.

on a variant of regular craps?
not always on multi-roll bets

Quote: Ayecarumba

Can your games lower the house edge and raise the total player exposure?

to me it looks like they (new dice Craps games)
do just that

As the house edge goes down the EV goes up

name that tune!

Sally

Quote: Ahigh

The beauty of craps is that many people think they still have closer to a 50/50 chance to win after the point is established and continue betting accordingly.

#1) How is that beautiful in your expert opinion?

#2) are you Ahigh a craps expert?
yes
or
no

I really think NewToCraps is a craps expert
he is just acting the part of a newbie to gain some advantage


#3) do you Ahigh have your simulation completed yet?

can one really have sex with their dice?

my guitar (vintage 1976. Nice curves!)

Sally... Oh

@Sally,

Thanks for sharing

A Steely Dan man?

Quote: NewToCraps

The math says 8.5 times for Casino Craps, but the variants that I am working on change the math ...

the main purpose of the first one I posted was to lengthen a shooters roll ...
the math says 20.3 times for 2nd Chance Craps^sm, which is a lot more ! (Thanks for the math work mustangsally)

I'm asking because I have a couple other game ideas that I am working on, and there are a lot of different opinions about shooting time. I want to see what the MASSES would prefer.

Hope you voted above .... thanks

Show how 2nd Chance Craps offers the player a more nostalgic and comfortable and sexier game than standard Craps with a per capita gain index better than 42.7 to make up for the loss of the Classic table that you're shoving out the door to make way for this 250-lb. canary that alienates homesick sharpshooters. The main objections to new games probably have nothing to do with game math or even simplicity. They mostly arise from the difference in enthusiasm between designers and players. Many gamblers have a bad attitude about some novel variant of the game they already "fit into". Personally, as a dice-dealer, I don't like to feel like a Ridley Scott space cadet on a distant planet or in some mechanistic future casino playing some game that "reminds" me of Craps while not actually being Craps at all.

Quote: mustangsally

a bunch of stuff

huh?

Quote: petroglyph

@Sally,

Thanks for sharing

Thanks for sharing too

You changed your reply
I saw something about SO (not mine) and a put bet

Looks like a place the point in the photo

she has nice fingernails
Sally

Quote: Ahigh

Quote: mustangsally

a bunch of stuff

huh?

when did I say that?
show link please

you are known for changing your posts
in other words,
Ahigh is a known post changer

3 simple questions you seem have problems with

Quote: Ahigh

The beauty of craps is that many people think they still have closer to a 50/50 chance to win after the point is established and continue betting accordingly.

#1) How is that beautiful in your expert opinion?

#2) are you Ahigh a craps expert?
choice#1: yes
choice#2: no

#3) do you Ahigh have your simulation completed yet?

the one written in Perl, I assume you deleted that post too
as your results were not correct - but at least you are consistent and that is a very good thing

see, no math harmed in my post
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

Thanks for sharing too

You changed your reply
I saw something about SO (not mine) and a put bet

Looks like a place the point in the photo

she has nice fingernails
Sally

For the op, I prefer shorter rolls [under 15 minutes] if its me throwing, all day long if its someone else. Five or less no prop or hop players.

@ Sally. The photo is centered or cropped well [not that easy] not clear but lots of pertinent info.

Those nails grown in one hour? Seems like you can never have ten real ones at the same time.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/3853-discussion-about-the-suspension-list/14/#post175673

You have a history of being wrong and not admitting it.

I just wish you admitted when you were wrong.

Then I might have more respect for you.

I just don't.

Have.

Hm.

Quote: mustangsally

I am out of here.

Yeah.