Why you should bet the don't pass

Quote: Bobby7Out

If I lose 1 dc number, I move the lay bets to place bets for $ 102 each.

Now, on a 7 out, I break even and when the shooter rolls any of my dc bets, I win on the place bet and lose on the flat dc bet.

If you are looking to break even, why not just take down all your bets and be done with it?

Quote: Bobby7Out

as to your question of playing time, what is your definition of occasionally or a lot? i want to play more but my business obligations take up a lot of my time. i would like to play once a week locally, atlantic city every month and i cruise a few times a year.

we are close to the same age and I have been playing Craps for about the same amount of time, but I play less than that, about every other month normally; I don't live close to a casino.

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what stories do you want to know?

Things you see happen with other players, interactions with dealers, what you like and don't like about certain casinos, things like that.

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i play with no superstitions, no emotion, just as a robot.

We just aren't going to agree on what superstition is and isn't. And at this site, you can catch a lot of flak for perceived fallacies, you may need a thick skin.

If you feel too exposed with too much in action at times playing Darkside, I'd consider a different strategy that doesn't have you moving those bets. Some players have suggested making a new Rightside bet on the exact number , not moving the bet. That's hedging, which I don't like to see either, but it's got to be better than giving up your advantage altogether.

i never stated wanting to break-even.

what i want, is a 2 and out, a 3 and out or a 4 and out.

i do not want to have the shooter roll each of my dc bets with odds, which is gut wrenching torture.

again, i do not want to lose more than 1 dc bet with odds.

at times, i will lose 1 dc bet with odds, move my remaining lay bets to place bets for $ 102 each and then the 7 out is rolled; it is going to happen. i am taking the conservative approach by not losing big.

i will never lose more than one dc bet with odds but may win a net of 1, 2, 3 or 4 dc bets with odds. are these not good odds; 1 to 1, 2 to 1, 3 to 1 or 4 to 1? and, a 4 and out wins approximately $ 670. how many times have you played craps and seen many 3 or 4 and outs?

i am not not going to get hammered on the don't side, as i did on the do side for years.

thank you for the comment.

as to stories, i find it amusing how all the simple minded individuals, playing the pass line, blame me for every 7 out.

i just ignore them, mind my own business and keep counting chips over and over again.

comments are said to me, such as, "strategies and systems do not work; winning is based on luck".

i do not believe in luck, just as meeting girls is not about luck or finding the right job is not about luck.

dealers are never an issue, wherever i play.

some dealers have even given me a few suggestions for the don't side over the past year.

as far as casinos, i play where i win and change when i lose.

the key for me, again, is discipline and patience.

sometimes, i have to wait 10 to 15 minutes for a 7 out, before i play.

finally, i play to win money not for free rooms, food and shows.

thank you for the comment.

Quote: Bobby7Out

comments are said to me, such as, "strategies and systems do not work; winning is based on luck".

well, for some reason I have determined to not be the the guy who tests you for how thick your skin is, but that sounds like something I might say!

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i do not believe in luck, just as meeting girls is not about luck or finding the right job is not about luck.

I'll allow you to elaborate though.

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dealers are never an issue, wherever i play.

look out for that.

what region of the country are you located? just generally if you don't want to be specific

forgive me, my friend, as i did forget to address your comment on how thick my skin is; "very thick", i also live in the philadelphia area, file civil complaints against former clients who have not paid us, and i usually win. after all, lawyers these days only want "non refundable retainers", even if they only work 1 hour.

if one is not thick skinned in today's environment (society), he is going to fail.

dealers do not give me a difficult time at the craps table, i tip them when i win a grand slam (4 and out) and when leaving the table a winner.

i am also very aware of what is going on around me, as to dealers correctly setting up my bets and correctly paying off winners.

some of the tough players, i have come across, are the ones on cruises, as i was on 2 last november and december. a few fights almost broke out as a couple ny firefighters blamed me for many 7 outs. in the end, we all befriended each other, exchanged communication information, enjoyed a few cocktails at the bar, etc.

also, i am a prime target for hot heads, being i am not over 6 feet tall, very educated, self confident and work in very challenging business industries.

in my opinion, most craps players (pass or don't pass) do not know all the rules or the correct pay outs of the game.

one should constantly improve on their game, whatever their game is; business or fun. i am always reading online or listening to utube videos for any type of advantage when playing craps. it is not just about throwing the dice and betting the same way, as everyone else does. the casinos were not built because everyone plays the same way, all the time and wins.

most blackjack players use "basis strategy", yet in the long run, most of them will lose.

as you know, i play to win, because winning is fun.

thank you for the comment.

Hi, bobby7, welcome to the forum. Interesting take you have in the game. Thanks for posting.

Quote: Bobby7Out

as you know, i play to win, because winning is fun.

That is a good goal and it should always be remembered that it is YOUR money and no amount of 'table pressure' should influence you.

I've heard dealers welcome a player they know with a "its been choppy but definitely better on the don'ts". Players prefer honesty above all else and dealers do not always think Don't Players drive away tipppers.

When craps first came to New Jersey it was said that many dealers were unsure of some of the weird payouts so the principle was "just keep dropping chips until one of those New Yorkers cracks a smile, then take one back". Many players are hesitant about rules and payouts. Its strange.

Its nice to tip if you walk away a winner. I try to do that too, but I also tip as part of my first bet so that the dealers on the same line I am on and the dealers also "get shoes" (an odds bet) if I take/lay odds. In doing this at the start of the game, I feel I get the best "mileage" out of my tip dollar. Its good to hear a dealer just being rotated in being told "Shooter is our friend". This means they have noticed and do appreciate my toke bets and that incoming base dealer better pay attention to me on behalf of the entire crew.

I'm going to have to study this thread later as I do like to be a Dark Sider but its terrible when the stickman intones "From the Don't, hoping they won't" and several other players immediately walk away from the table.

hello my friend, being at work, with a challenging day still ahead of me, i will state, the sound of a stickperson, uttering the words, "7 out, line away, pay the don'ts", is music to my ears, especially with 3 or 4 don't bets with odds on the table. until next time...

Quote: Bobby7Out

Now I bet $ 100 on the dp with single odds, followed by 3 dc bets of $ 100 with single odds.

The key now, is I am not going to let the shooter beat me on more than 1 number.

If I lose 1 dc number, I move the lay bets to place bets for $ 102 each.

Now, on a 7 out, I break even and when the shooter rolls any of my dc bets, I win on the place bet and lose on the flat dc bet.

I'm feeling a bit thick on your system. When you move them, which lay bets do you mean? All the odds on the DCs?

What do you do if the DP is the one that loses? (i.e. shooter makes his point)

And when you say single odds, do you mean $100 or enough odds to win a net of $200 on a given number?

hello bbb, remember, my handle is "bobby7out", not just bobby7. thank you.

hello cowboy,

when losing only 1 dc bet, i then move all the lay bets from the dc bets to place bets for $ 102 each.

again, i am not going to allow a shooter to beat me on more than 1 dc or dp bet.

if the shooter makes his point, i will still move any and all dc lay bets to place bets for $ 102 each.

furthermore, i will not continue to bet until a shooter rolls a 7 out.

i want to bet on cold or chilly tables, not hot or luke warm tables.

forgive me for the lack of a definitive single odds bet amount; to keep it simple and easy to follow, i will only lay $ 102 on every dc bet, no matter the number.

in the future, i most likely will be betting a $ 250 flat bet with $ 300 in odds, on any number.

this strategy eats up so much concentration and energy, as it is, that i prefer the dealers, perform most of the thinking, instead of me.

thank you for the great comments

I hope, given the opportunity, those $102 bets are buy bets if possible? (4, 5, 9 and 10)

Quote: Bobby7Out

The key now, is I am not going to let the shooter beat me on more than 1 number.

If I lose 1 dc number, I move the lay bets to place bets for $ 102 each.

Now, on a 7 out, I break even and when the shooter rolls any of my dc bets, I win on the place bet and lose on the flat dc bet.

However, remember, 1 bet is the most I will lose and a net of 1, 2, 3 or 4 bets is what I will win on a 7 out.

Those are excellent odds.

No.

Since you stop making Don't bets after a loss and add Place bets to the remaining Don't bets, you've eliminated any possibility of winning a hand after a single loss behind a number.

Getting four Don't bets behind numbers without a loss is difficult enough. If you do get four behind numbers, the odds against winning all four before a seven out can be as high as three to one.

With four Don't side bets with odds on the 4,5,6, and 8, you are facing seventeen losing dice combinations, versus only six winning dice combinations.

Lose just one of those numbers with odds, the six, and you have to win the remaining three to get ahead. The odds against that happening are twelve to six.

At this point a seven out that wins all three remaining Don't bets will hurt you, since you've taken down your odds and offset your Don't bets with corresponding Place bets.

With just two Don't bets working, the five and eight, the odds against winning both before a seven out are nine to six.

Not excellent.

hello tanko,

you are not incorrect with your analysis.

i choose not to complicate my strategy with your excellent comments and odds analysis.

however, as stated in my previous posts, i am not going to lose more than 1 dc or dp bet while at the same time, having a chance to win 1, 2, 3 or 4 net don't bets with odds.

i will be in the game longer by losing less and having exit points.

furthermore, you may not have read all of my posts but winning a net of 1, 2, 3 or, better yet, 4 don't bets versus only losing, at the most, 1 dc bet are, in fact, excellent odds. would you not agree?

finally, i do not expect to win all the time with a 4 and out or even a 3 and out.

again, i choose not to have 3 or 4 don't bets with odds working, with the shooter knocking them all off, after i have lost the first don't bet.

betting on every roll, with odds, in my opinion, is suicide, just as it is on the do side.

thank you for the excellent comments.

i only buy the 4 and 10; not the 5 and 9.