SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 12:43:41 PM permalink
Hello everyone. I have recently started to become a casino addict. Small backstory. My grandfather LOVED to go to the casino and it seemed like his retirement was making money at our closest casino (Akwesasne Mohawk Casino). And he always begged me to go with him, and I would always decline because, for one, I'm cheap. I don't like to "waste" money. Even though I have no doubt he would have funded my bankroll. Unfortunately, he passed away in late November, and I never did take a trip to the casino with him. After all the happened, as a small Christmas gift, my mother gave my brother and I some money out of his wallet, sort of as a token as the last one. My brother and I decided the only way to honor him was to spend that money at the casino. So we did. And had a blast. And I have been back several times since. I've been studying the different games, and seeing what fits my budget. Mostly card games. However, one of the first that really caught my eye was craps. And I was hoping to get some advice on a strategy that I think may work well, to stretch the money I have to play with. If I make a little, fine. If I lose some, thats ok too.

Here is my strategy. (Remember, I'm cheap.) And patient. :-)

Bet $5 on the Don't Pass. (Dirty looks don't bother me and I'm pretty quiet anyways.)
If the Come Out isn't a 4 or 10, I would just let it sit there until I win or lose.
If the Come Out is a 4 or 10, play the max odds, which I believe would be $15, and let that go until I win or lose.

I have not tried this in the casino, only on many computer and internet games. I usually come out ahead a little bit. And I know its probably not true to life. And like I said, I'm not trying to strike it rich, and not trying to lose my shirt. And I don't want to be there for 5 minutes either.

Thank you in advance. And thank you for all the other interesting topics.

Jeremy.
sodawater
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February 9th, 2014 at 12:54:29 PM permalink
Your strategy is fine. Stick to line bets and odds, as they have the lowest house edge at craps.

The max odds for a $5 DP bet with a point of 4 or 10 couldn't be $15, because that would pay $7.50. At casinos with 3-4-5 odds, the max odds for a DP or DC bet are always 6 times your flat bet.

I would back up all my don't bets with odds, because it reduces the combined house edge of your line bets. If you're going to make another $5 line bet if you win your previous line bet, you might as well use that $5 on odds on your first line bet, since the house edge is 0 vs. 1.4% for the line.
odiousgambit
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February 9th, 2014 at 12:57:10 PM permalink
Darkside you *probably* wager 30 to win 15 on 4 or 10, the reverse of what you stated. Not enough info.

You still are at risk at the other numbers to resolve as soon as you make the line bet. So, what is sometimes said, is that the odds do not help you win more money. The Wizard advises you to just size up what you are comfortable with. It is possible to reduce the HE with more odds bets, but it takes more money, and you aren't comfortable with that size bet [all the time anyway].

With your concerns I would be a rightside bettor and wager 15 to win 30, so you can stay comfortable.

And one way to get the HE down and stay comfortable is to go max odds on all numbers, but limit your total action. That means short sessions. Long sessions with your strategy can mean just as much action, but at higher HE. If you aren't sure what I mean, then don't sweat it. Coming to Wizard sites in general is a good sign you are on the right track [but a lot of that is at wizardofodds.com. ]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 1:22:23 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Your strategy is fine. Stick to line bets and odds, as they have the lowest house edge at craps.

The max odds for a $5 DP bet with a point of 4 or 10 couldn't be $15, because that would pay $7.50. At casinos with 3-4-5 odds, the max odds for a DP or DC bet are always 6 times your flat bet.

I would back up all my don't bets with odds, because it reduces the combined house edge of your line bets. If you're going to make another $5 line bet if you win your previous line bet, you might as well use that $5 on odds on your first line bet, since the house edge is 0 vs. 1.4% for the line.



Ah, I wasn't paying attention to the max odds of don't pass/don't come.
So I would assume my odds would have to be an even number? So, on my $5 I could put $6 in odd down, which would pay $3. (Sounds ridiculous, LoL.)

My thought process with only putting odds down on the 4 or 10 is that they are harder to get than 5-6-8-9 and therefore if they did come up, before the 7, I am only losing $5 rather than $10 or $20.
sodawater
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February 9th, 2014 at 1:31:04 PM permalink
Quote: SkittleCar1

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to the max odds of don't pass/don't come.
So I would assume my odds would have to be an even number? So, on my $5 I could put $6 in odd down, which would pay $3. (Sounds ridiculous, LoL.)

My thought process with only putting odds down on the 4 or 10 is that they are harder to get than 5-6-8-9 and therefore if they did come up, before the 7, I am only losing $5 rather than $10 or $20.



If you are playing the don't and the point is 4 or 10, your odds bet can be any even number up to the maximum, yes.

You are right that 4 and 10 are the hardest points to make, and therefore you will win your odds bets 2/3s of the time. But that's exactly offset by the fact that you will lose 1/3 of the time, and you are laying 2 to 1. So the odds bets on the 4 and 10 are no better or worse than the odds bets on the 6/8 and 5/9. I would still recommend you play odds for all your don't points, as long as you are planning to gamble that money anyway. You can't beat 0 house edge.
SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 1:31:27 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Darkside you *probably* wager 30 to win 15 on 4 or 10, the reverse of what you stated. Not enough info.

You still are at risk at the other numbers to resolve as soon as you make the line bet. So, what is sometimes said, is that the odds do not help you win more money. The Wizard advises you to just size up what you are comfortable with. It is possible to reduce the HE with more odds bets, but it takes more money, and you aren't comfortable with that size bet [all the time anyway].

With your concerns I would be a rightside bettor and wager 15 to win 30, so you can stay comfortable.

And one way to get the HE down and stay comfortable is to go max odds on all numbers, but limit your total action. That means short sessions. Long sessions with your strategy can mean just as much action, but at higher HE. If you aren't sure what I mean, then don't sweat it. Coming to Wizard sites in general is a good sign you are on the right track [but a lot of that is at wizardofodds.com. ]



My first craps experience was with $5 pass line bets, and $5 odds. Then I was doing $5 come bets, with $5 odds. I did this three times in a row, and got 7'd out every time. So that was $60 gone in a matter of 15 minutes. It kinda soured me on the whole thing. With that said, I did very little studying on the game at that point in time.

Also the thought with my strategy is to have a longer session. I like watching everyone play and having a small stake in it.



Thank you both for replying. I will keep your advice in mind and try it out. :)
SFB
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February 9th, 2014 at 1:57:11 PM permalink
Skittle:

Did you have fun playing Craps?

You can grind it for a period of time... I played for over 3 hours in Reno with a bank roll of $200. Never played the Don't, however.

But I had a lot of fun. That is why I keep coming back.

Think about how you would like to gamble at the craps table, then go with the flow. You will get killed on the Don't if the shooter starts hitting points... So, go with the flow, play what's working at that table at that time.

How many were at your table for the first time you played? The wildest craps tables I have ever played were at the Motor City Casino on New Years Eve.

SFB
SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 1:57:56 PM permalink
After a little more testing, I played $5 on the don't pass. And then $6 odds no matter what the point is. It seems to be about what I am looking for my fun. Thank you again. Saturday can't come fast enough!! :-)
Beethoven9th
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February 9th, 2014 at 2:12:57 PM permalink
Quote: SkittleCar1

After a little more testing, I played $5 on the don't pass. And then $6 odds no matter what the point is. It seems to be about what I am looking for my fun. Thank you again. Saturday can't come fast enough!! :-)


Just so you know, many casinos require that the amount of your potential win on your odds be (at least) equal to the minimum table bet. So if you're on a $5 table, many places will require that you lay at least $9 odds (to win $6) if the point is 5 or 9, and $10 odds (to win $5) if the point is 4 or 10.

Also, if you really want to impress the crew, learn how to bridge and heel your odds bet properly, since most people always screw this part up. :)
Fighting BS one post at a time!
SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 2:30:44 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Just so you know, many casinos require that the amount of your potential win on your odds be (at least) equal to the minimum table bet. So if you're on a $5 table, many places will require that you lay at least $9 odds (to win $6) if the point is 5 or 9, and $10 odds (to win $5) if the point is 4 or 10.

Also, if you really want to impress the crew, learn how to bridge and heel your odds bet properly, since most people always screw this part up. :)



Ok. I am glad you brought that up. I think I would be ok with that, since my original plan involved $15 in odds. So I should be good there.

As far as the bridge and heel, is there a tutorial? LoL.
wudged
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SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 3:06:49 PM permalink
I think I got it.

$5 Don't Pass bet.

For a 6 or 8 point. $6 odds would be bridged. ($6 to win $5)
For a 5 or 9 point. $9 odds would be heeled. ($9 to win $6)
For a 4 or 10 point. $10 odds would be bridged. ($10 to win $5)

Correct?
Beethoven9th
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February 9th, 2014 at 3:14:25 PM permalink
^^^^^^^^
Yep!

(Assuming, of course, that the amounts being bridged are of the same denomination. For example, if your flat bet is a nickel, and you're laying 6 singles, then obviously that can't be bridged)
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SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 4:37:31 PM permalink
Thanks everyone.....if I could tip you, I would. :-)
SkittleCar1
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February 9th, 2014 at 7:11:53 PM permalink
So, ignoring my bankroll for a moment.

If I am wanting to play the darkside, I want to...

Bet $5 on the don't pass.
Then when the point is established, lay the max odds, no matter what the point is, which would be $30. (heeled)

So those are really my best odds/bets?

If I think I understand it all correctly?
sodawater
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February 9th, 2014 at 7:20:09 PM permalink
Quote: SkittleCar1

So, ignoring my bankroll for a moment.

If I am wanting to play the darkside, I want to...

Bet $5 on the don't pass.
Then when the point is established, lay the max odds, no matter what the point is, which would be $30. (heeled)

So those are really my best odds/bets?

If I think I understand it all correctly?



Yes -- minimum on the don't pass and laying maximum odds would reduce the house edge to its lowest possible number.

If the casino offers 3-4-5 odds, then your odds bet would be $30 or 6 times your flat bet every time.

4/10 -- $30 to win $15

5/9 -- $30 to win $20

6/8 -- $30 to win $25

If the casino offers different odds, it will be different.

For example, if the casino offered 5x odds, here are the max odds you could lay for a $5 DP bet:

4/10 -- $50 to win $25

5/9 -- $45 to win $30

6/8 -- $30 to win $25

If the casino offered only double odds, here are the max odds you could lay for a $5 DP bet:

4/10 -- $20 to win $10

5/9 -- $15 to win $10

6/8 -- $12 to win $10


I went to the Web site for the Akwesasne Mohawk Casino, but it doesn't say the craps odds offered. I assume it is 3-4-5 since that is most common.
Beethoven9th
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February 9th, 2014 at 7:21:22 PM permalink
Technically speaking, yes. But if you're going to do this, just make sure your bankroll is large enough to withstand the swings.
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soxfan
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February 9th, 2014 at 8:00:06 PM permalink
1. The average random roller at the dice table will make less than 2 passes/naturals befor seven out.
2. Either the deuce or 12 will pop once within 18 rolls of the cubes.

The above is all any cat needs to know about dice, hey hey!
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tringlomane
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February 9th, 2014 at 8:31:52 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Just so you know, many casinos require that the amount of your potential win on your odds be (at least) equal to the minimum table bet. So if you're on a $5 table, many places will require that you lay at least $9 odds (to win $6) if the point is 5 or 9, and $10 odds (to win $5) if the point is 4 or 10.

Also, if you really want to impress the crew, learn how to bridge and heel your odds bet properly, since most people always screw this part up. :)



Does this rule typically apply to pass line bets as well? I have put odds down lower than the minimum bet, because I am a poor wuss, and I have yet to be corrected by anyone. But I have never played live craps in Vegas. Just bubble craps and the bubble definitely doesn't care. $1 odds is fine with the machine.
Tomspur
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February 9th, 2014 at 8:38:19 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Does this rule typically apply to pass line bets as well? I have put odds down lower than the minimum bet, because I am a poor wuss, and I have yet to be corrected by anyone. But I have never played live craps in Vegas. Just bubble craps and the bubble definitely doesn't care. $1 odds is fine with the machine.



I think it very much depends on casino to casino. If you are playing at Bellagio they will probably ask you to conform to the "odds at or higher than the table minimum" rule. If you are playing at a locals spot or even at O'Sheas or Casino Royale, I doubt if they would care to be honest, as long as the crew has the ability (read chip variation) to pay the bet.

Everything is dependant on if you have a nice crew or a crew who hates their job!
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Beethoven9th
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February 9th, 2014 at 8:39:03 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Does this rule typically apply to pass line bets as well?


Usually it does, but occasionally you'll find places that don't care.
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sodawater
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February 9th, 2014 at 10:01:26 PM permalink
In NJ, if you have a legal pass line bet, you can bet $1 on the 4 and 10 odds, $2 on the 5 and 9, and $5 on the 6 and 8. Every casino allows this.
Tomspur
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February 9th, 2014 at 10:03:24 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

In NJ, if you have a legal pass line bet, you can bet $1 on the 4 and 10 odds, $2 on the 5 and 9, and $5 on the 6 and 8. Every casino allows this.



THat makes complete sense Soda, again it is all about whether the table is able to pay the wager or not. If they allowed you to have a $4 6 and 8, they would have to have pennies in the tray to pay....not going to happen.

Just a silly example I know but it holds water.
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
tringlomane
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February 9th, 2014 at 10:16:49 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

THat makes complete sense Soda, again it is all about whether the table is able to pay the wager or not. If they allowed you to have a $4 6 and 8, they would have to have pennies in the tray to pay....not going to happen.

Just a silly example I know but it holds water.



If you don't bet an amount that makes an even dollar result, they will round down the change I believe (except on bubble craps), but I would never bet that because it doesn't make sense. In Missouri or Tunica, I would usually just bet $2 odds on the 5 or 9 and they would pay me $3 even if the minimum was $5 on the pass. But if it was 6 or 8, I always bet $5 so I can get $6 from odds.
Tomspur
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February 9th, 2014 at 10:26:36 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

If you don't bet an amount that makes an even dollar result, they will round down the change I believe (except on bubble craps), but I would never bet that because it doesn't make sense. In Missouri or Tunica, I would usually just bet $2 odds on the 5 or 9 and they would pay me $3 even if the minimum was $5 on the pass. But if it was 6 or 8, I always bet $5 so I can get $6 from odds.



It is also very much up to the crew you are playing with to ensure that you always have the correct amounts bet in order to maximize your payout. You are correct though, if they cannot pay you correctly they will round in the houses' favor. Some crews will, if you continue to bet low on the odds, make up for it next time if they feel your "fractions" have reached the next $1 and consequently pay you an extra $1.
Kinda similar with paying the vig on buy numbers.
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
odiousgambit
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February 10th, 2014 at 6:52:29 AM permalink
You should know that you are asking a lot, playing Craps with a small bankroll. I generally don't recommend it, but if you accept that you will blow it plenty of times and be able to shrug that off and wait till a next time without getting the blues you'll be OK.

In Craps you can get bored waiting for your bets to resolve. The solution to the boredom is to make other bets. So, maybe not now for you , but later it's an experience of either getting bored or risking more ... needing a bigger bankroll. Let us know how it goes with you.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
SkittleCar1
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February 10th, 2014 at 7:44:42 AM permalink
I think I am just going to start with $100 and see where it takes me, and keep it pretty conservative. And whatever happens, happens. :-)
SkittleCar1
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February 12th, 2014 at 3:38:13 PM permalink
Quote: SFB

Skittle:

Did you have fun playing Craps?

You can grind it for a period of time... I played for over 3 hours in Reno with a bank roll of $200. Never played the Don't, however.

But I had a lot of fun. That is why I keep coming back.

Think about how you would like to gamble at the craps table, then go with the flow. You will get killed on the Don't if the shooter starts hitting points... So, go with the flow, play what's working at that table at that time.

How many were at your table for the first time you played? The wildest craps tables I have ever played were at the Motor City Casino on New Years Eve.

SFB



I was going back through this thread, sorry I missed it.

Yes, I loved playing it in the short amount of time I did. It's a lot of information overload for a rookie to take in. People yelling at the dealers, and throwing chips in the center bets. But it's very interesting to watch others strategies. Some of the chances people take, and the amount of money are real eye openers.

I would say there were about 3 players including me my first time, but it grew to 6 or 7 pretty quick.

I'm gonna try my small bets & odds and see how that goes. However, the max odds is really intriguing. Gotta be patient and not worry about what I "could" have won. Over time, I may get a little more aggressive.
sodawater
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February 12th, 2014 at 4:15:06 PM permalink
the thing is, why make 10 $5 flat bets, which will cost you 1.4% on 50, rather than use that same $50 in free odds bets, which costs you 0.0%?
RaleighCraps
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February 12th, 2014 at 4:29:38 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

the thing is, why make 10 $5 flat bets, which will cost you 1.4% on 50, rather than use that same $50 in free odds bets, which costs you 0.0%?



Because you get 10 decisions vs only 1 decision when you play $50 in free odds.

In those 10 decisions , you're most likely not going to lose them all. Let's say you win 4. Your loss is $30

With Free odds, you win $60+, or you LOSE IT ALL.

Mathematically it is correct to play the free odds, but it comes at the expense of not being able to have more decisions, which would tend to mean shorter playing sessions.

This is what makes craps so hard to quantify. The best mathematical way to play the game is not necessarily the best way for a person to play, depending on their bankroll AND what they are looking to get out of their playing session.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
sodawater
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February 12th, 2014 at 4:49:54 PM permalink
Problem is, when you gamble at a negative EV game, you're buying variance.

You should want more variance, not less.

You should want less house edge, not more, to pay for this variance.
RaleighCraps
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February 12th, 2014 at 5:01:51 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Problem is, when you gamble at a negative EV game, you're buying variance.

You should want more variance, not less.

You should want less house edge, not more, to pay for this variance.



But buying that variance comes at a huge expense.
You have to have a MUCH MUCH higher bankroll if you want to put $50 in free odds on your $5 bet.
It is great when it wins, but if it loses, you're out $55. And it took less than a minute or two.

OTOH, $5 bets means you get to sit through 11 decisions, which could mean as much as 10-30 minutes. AND, you most likely are NOT going to lose all $55. You can't say the same for the Free odds bet.

IF you are trying to play craps with a limited bankroll, say $100, you can try and play the best mathematical way of $5 and $50 in Free odds, but you will only get 2 chances. And you have a decent chance at losing both of them. Two and Done. Now what?

But 20 decisions of $5 bets is going to last a long time.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Beethoven9th
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February 12th, 2014 at 5:08:44 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

IF you are trying to play craps with a limited bankroll, say $100, you can try and play the best mathematical way of $5 and $50 in Free odds, but you will only get 2 chances. And you have a decent chance at losing both of them.

+1

Most people buy in for $100 or less, and if they want to stay at the table for a while, I totally agree that they shouldn't be taking/laying odds.
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Dicenor33
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February 12th, 2014 at 6:02:13 PM permalink
This website had an interesting discussion on the way side bets are designed. Craps is a collection of different side bets and I assume they were added gradually as designers of such bets were coming up with new ideas. It's fun to try all type of combinations and it might last years before you give up on a game. I think what's important is that the game made you think, in turn it develops your ability to analyze things which might be helpful in life.
helpmespock
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February 12th, 2014 at 6:18:54 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

+1

Most people buy in for $100 or less, and if they want to stay at the table for a while, I totally agree that they shouldn't be taking/laying odds.



When I play at Casino Royale on their $3 table and I only want to risk $60 total I typically put the $3 minimum on the pass line and then $3 on the 4/10, $4 on the 5/9 and $5 on the 6/8. This gives some time at the table if the dice start out against me, and gives me some exposure to the free odds bets. I can still wash out quickly with only $60, but neither is it all or nothing. Mind you I don't typically gamble for more than an hour at a time so maybe that's why the bet size and bankroll work out.

--helpmespock
endermike
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February 12th, 2014 at 7:25:20 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Problem is, when you gamble at a negative EV game, you're buying variance.

You should want more variance, not less.

You should want less house edge, not more, to pay for this variance.



That is one (valid) way to look at it. On the other hand, most people are buying entertainment. Dollars go in and entertainment time comes out. Hence something combining:

-Distribution of outcomes of session (including EV and SD)
-Time spent playing
-Method of play (what do you do? pick sides, roll dice, pull a lever, watch a sporting event, etc.)
SkittleCar1
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February 14th, 2014 at 10:28:51 AM permalink
OK, I have another question, mostly because I am TERRIBLE at math.......

Say I want to put my white hat on and play the pass line...

I will play $5 on the pass line.
What are the minimum odds I can play to get my full payout? I am not good with figuring the whole 6:5 thing.
So could I just throw down $5 in odds and not get short changed?

EDIT: I did figure out the 5 & 9 need $6 in odds to avoid the 50 cent thing.
sodawater
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February 14th, 2014 at 10:32:00 AM permalink
Quote: SkittleCar1

OK, I have another question, mostly because I am TERRIBLE at math.......

Say I want to put my white hat on and play the pass line...

I will play $5 on the pass line.
What are the minimum odds I can play to get my full payout? I am not good with figuring the whole 6:5 thing.
So could I just throw down $5 in odds and not get short changed?



To receive a full payout, if your point is 5 or 9, pass odds must be an even number. If your point is 6 or 8, pass odds must be a multiple of 5. Odds for 4 and 10 can be any number.

In NJ, all casinos let you bet $1 odds on 4/10, $2 odds on 5/9, and $5 odds on 6/8 and get full payouts -- other casinos may make you bet some higher minimum on odds.

5/9 pay 3 to 2 so it has to be even.

6/8 pay 6 to 5 so it has to be a multiple of 5.

4/10 pay 2 to 1 so it has to be a multiple of 1.
endermike
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February 14th, 2014 at 10:43:02 AM permalink
Quote: SkittleCar1

OK, I have another question, mostly because I am TERRIBLE at math.......

Say I want to put my white hat on and play the pass line...

I will play $5 on the pass line.
What are the minimum odds I can play to get my full payout? I am not good with figuring the whole 6:5 thing.
So could I just throw down $5 in odds and not get short changed?

EDIT: I did figure out the 5 & 9 need $6 in odds to avoid the 50 cent thing.



$10. Keep it divisible by 10 and everything will be fine.
SkittleCar1
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February 14th, 2014 at 10:46:47 AM permalink
Thanks again guys! I owe you all big time! :)
SkittleCar1
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February 14th, 2014 at 10:54:39 AM permalink
I think when I do bet on the pass, I will keep it similar to my don't pass strategy.

Pass---------------Don't Pass

6/8-----------------6/8
$5 - $5odds *** $5 - $6odds

5/9-----------------5/9
$5 - $6odds *** $5 - $9odds

4/10---------------4/10
$5 - $5odds *** $5 - $10odds


Hopefully this will give me some good time at the table, and not lose a whole lot. Haha.
odiousgambit
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February 14th, 2014 at 11:03:13 AM permalink
never mind I think I get it
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
SkittleCar1
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February 14th, 2014 at 11:07:54 AM permalink
Yeah, $9 to win $6. There was a question on whether your odds had to have a payout with a minimum to the minimum table bet. So that is why.
sodawater
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February 14th, 2014 at 12:43:07 PM permalink
just remember that when you're playing the DP, you're the one "paying off" (or laying) the odds. When you play the pass, you're taking the odds. It's 2 sides of the same coin.

If you lay 9 dollars on the DP odds for the 9, you can win $6. If you take 6 dollars on the pass odds for the 9, you can win $9.
SkittleCar1
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February 14th, 2014 at 5:19:16 PM permalink
Slowly getting this!

Another question I have with the odds, can I remove them any time? Or once I place them, is that it?
odiousgambit
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February 14th, 2014 at 5:37:36 PM permalink
Quote: SkittleCar1

Slowly getting this!

Another question I have with the odds, can I remove them any time? Or once I place them, is that it?



The only bets that can't be removed are the contract bets on Pass and Come. The odds behind the pass line you can pick up yourself. The others often are just declared "off".

Personally, I think picking up bets is a bad habit to get into.

PS: when do we get a report on how this goes?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
sodawater
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February 14th, 2014 at 5:39:50 PM permalink
aside from pass line and come wagers after a point has been established, every bet on the craps table can be removed at any time, including all odds bets.
SkittleCar1
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February 14th, 2014 at 5:50:56 PM permalink
My only reason for pulling odds is my own cheapness and insecurity of losing. If someone tosses a bunch in a row, without hitting the point, its like you can just feel the 7 coming easier than the point (or vice versa.) Its like the whole "635 days since our last job related injury" sign. You are one day closer until the next one happens, you never know when. :-)

And as far as my report on how all this works out ..... we will know tomorrow night. Headed to Hogansburg NY tomorrow morning.....and hopefully all day!
sodawater
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February 14th, 2014 at 5:59:04 PM permalink
Quote: SkittleCar1

My only reason for pulling odds is my own cheapness and insecurity of losing. If someone tosses a bunch in a row, without hitting the point, its like you can just feel the 7 coming easier than the point (or vice versa.) Its like the whole "635 days since our last job related injury" sign. You are one day closer until the next one happens, you never know when. :-)



This is faulty logic. Try to stay away from thinking like this. Craps is a game of independent trials. That means each roll of the dice is a fresh start. The dice don't have a memory to know they haven't rolled 7 or the point in a while. Even if they did, they lack the muscles and dexterity to arrange their faces to "correct" the run.

Even your example of workplace injuries is flawed. Absent any other knowledge, I'd argue a workplace injury today is LESS likely at a job site that had gone 635 days without one, than say a job site that had gone 30 days without one. Regardless, the analogy makes no sense for craps.

You should leave odds working whenever you intend to continue gambling because odds bets carry 0 house edge and every other bet you might make carries a house edge. So if you plan on continuing to play you might as well leave the odds working.
SkittleCar1
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February 14th, 2014 at 6:23:18 PM permalink
That's the thing I have to keep remembering, the dice have no memory.
Plus, I'd be kicking myself if I pulled them, and the number I need came up. The mind is a terrible thing.
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