Vietnam Wall
November 6th, 2013 at 8:53:44 PM
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The travelling Vietnam Memorial Wall will be in Laughlin Nevada at the Tropicana November 10, 2013
November 6th, 2013 at 9:07:35 PM
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I remember all us Vietnam Era Vets being upset at the design of the original memorial . We were as wrong about that as the war itself.
was. Mohammed Ali called it right.
was. Mohammed Ali called it right.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 6th, 2013 at 9:20:55 PM
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Quote: BuzzardI remember all us Vietnam Era Vets being upset at the design of the original memorial . We were as wrong about that as the war itself.
was. Mohammed Ali called it right.
My ex and I participated in the reading of the names several times whenever it came through Florida. It's an honor and very moving. He was the only survivor of his Blue Team at one point, and they're all on there. I saw the big one first in 1993, before I met him. I think it's the most meaningful memorial for me, along with Thomas Jefferson's.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
November 7th, 2013 at 8:30:36 AM
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Quote: BuzzardI remember all us Vietnam Era Vets being upset at the design of the original memorial . We were as wrong about that as the war itself.
was. Mohammed Ali called it right.
Much of the controversy was over the ethnicity of the young woman who designed the memorial. Rumors abounded that she was Vietnamese. She was not, in fact she was an American citizen by birth.
Buzz, were you ever spat upon or called a baby killer? I went through some of the major airports during the war, in uniform, and not once did that happen to me nor did I personally know anyone that it happened to.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
November 7th, 2013 at 9:35:57 AM
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Quote: 1BB
Buzz, were you ever spat upon or called a baby killer? I went through some of the major airports during the war, in uniform, and not once did that happen to me nor did I personally know anyone that it happened to.
If you don't mind me asking, how were you received in general? I think the spitting that happened would only have happened sporadically when there was a large group around. But today while people get thanked for their service (thank you both, and anyone else out there btw) I think what happened to most was they got ignored and kind of had 400 days of their life missing when they came back.
I did hear a story when I was a kid (late Vietnam Era) about a guy was a Green Beret having a beer in the bar near the recruiting office. Two guys hassled him but he ignored them. They poured a beer over his head and you can imagine what happened before the cops got there. Bartender told the cops to leave the guy alone.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
November 7th, 2013 at 10:14:41 AM
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I also went through the major airports in uniform and was never accosted in any way, and this was both before and after My Lai...
November 7th, 2013 at 11:01:29 AM
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No harassment, but what used to piss me off was that on tv shows the nut job was always a Vietnam Vet. And killers in the newspaper was often painted with that same brush, which 90% of the time was not true. And of course those politicians who bragged about their sacrifices in Vietnam, until exposed as liars.
But quite a few vets made it back in one piece, but had trouble surviving here. I worked with a guy named Thomas Shanaman. He was one of only 3 survivors in his unit. But I found that out second hand, he never talked about it. Worked evening with him for several years. Great guy to work with. After things slowed at 8pm, he would carry the load and fight for something to work on. On
weekends he would work on crossword puzzles when things were slow. Anything not to put his brain in neutral, I guess. He rode the
bus home and would grab a 6 pack at the corner liquor store.
They AT&T forced us to another location and Tom was on days. Last time I spoke to him he had 153 days until he could take early
retirement. He never made double digits. A month later he shot himself in the head. They played this song at his funeral.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdigxCIuOE
Just before I retired somebody introduced me to a new hire. Thomas Shanaman Jr. Nice kid. I told him his Dad was a hell of a nice guy. Always regretted I could not tell him anymore than that !
But quite a few vets made it back in one piece, but had trouble surviving here. I worked with a guy named Thomas Shanaman. He was one of only 3 survivors in his unit. But I found that out second hand, he never talked about it. Worked evening with him for several years. Great guy to work with. After things slowed at 8pm, he would carry the load and fight for something to work on. On
weekends he would work on crossword puzzles when things were slow. Anything not to put his brain in neutral, I guess. He rode the
bus home and would grab a 6 pack at the corner liquor store.
They AT&T forced us to another location and Tom was on days. Last time I spoke to him he had 153 days until he could take early
retirement. He never made double digits. A month later he shot himself in the head. They played this song at his funeral.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdigxCIuOE
Just before I retired somebody introduced me to a new hire. Thomas Shanaman Jr. Nice kid. I told him his Dad was a hell of a nice guy. Always regretted I could not tell him anymore than that !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 7th, 2013 at 11:30:14 AM
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Lest we forget
I send this song every year to a vet, it has been the most emotionally moving war ballad for me ever.
First let me preface this by saying, the term "Waltzing Matilda" is Australian slang for going camping. A national favorite pastime for the people from "down under"
That said this ballad does reference waltzing Matilda but is not that song, this is the ballad of Gallipolee or Souvla bay. Haven't met a Vet yet who didn't empathize.
http://youtu.be/PFCekeoSTwg
I send this song every year to a vet, it has been the most emotionally moving war ballad for me ever.
First let me preface this by saying, the term "Waltzing Matilda" is Australian slang for going camping. A national favorite pastime for the people from "down under"
That said this ballad does reference waltzing Matilda but is not that song, this is the ballad of Gallipolee or Souvla bay. Haven't met a Vet yet who didn't empathize.
http://youtu.be/PFCekeoSTwg
November 7th, 2013 at 11:35:54 AM
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Thanks for posting.
The soldiers comrades "dream their dreams of past glory". For poor Tom, it was nightmares of past glory.
The soldiers comrades "dream their dreams of past glory". For poor Tom, it was nightmares of past glory.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 7th, 2013 at 11:47:10 AM
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Quote: BuzzardNo harassment, but what used to piss me off was that on tv shows the nut job was always a Vietnam Vet.
My only knowledge of V-vets also came from movies and TV, and always it was the junkie, the nutjob, the weirdo. Someone who hasn't showered or shaved since 1973, whose mind was mostly left in the dirt somewhere in Dak To, and was liable to do just about anything, as long as it was really bad.
Turns out, I knew a bunch of V-vets, many who served in the dark times. I just didn't know it, because they never bragged about it. Granted, many have their issues, most notably the drink, but who doesn't have an issue of some sort? Most often, they were the kindest, hardest working sons of bitches I've ever met. One old bastard wasn't but 5' 6" and pushing 145lbs, but boy could that withered old git shuck some shingles. All day long, hauling 70lb bundles up and down a rickety three story ladder like it was nothing, whereas my 20yr old self struggled almost constantly.
That old man taught me more about hard work and dedication in one summer than any other mentor I'd ever had, and I only seen him without a smile at about 10a as he tried to force himself until noon to have his first beer.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
November 7th, 2013 at 11:53:01 AM
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Times change. I used to haul shingles for my dad when he was roofing. Now Josie is bugging me to get a shingles vaccination.
I can still haul shingles, strength wise anyway, but that sun kills me. But sitting on the roof about 3pm drinking a beer, not exactly perfect, but pretty close.
I can still haul shingles, strength wise anyway, but that sun kills me. But sitting on the roof about 3pm drinking a beer, not exactly perfect, but pretty close.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 7th, 2013 at 12:14:48 PM
permalink
Quote: AZDuffmanIf you don't mind me asking, how were you received in general? I think the spitting that happened would only have happened sporadically when there was a large group around. But today while people get thanked for their service (thank you both, and anyone else out there btw) I think what happened to most was they got ignored and kind of had 400 days of their life missing when they came back.
I did hear a story when I was a kid (late Vietnam Era) about a guy was a Green Beret having a beer in the bar near the recruiting office. Two guys hassled him but he ignored them. They poured a beer over his head and you can imagine what happened before the cops got there. Bartender told the cops to leave the guy alone.
I was received cordially which is quite different than being welcomed with open arms. I soon realized that talking about it to civilians was not the best use of my time so I didn't and don't today.
My brother was the complete opposite of me and we could really push each others buttons. He was a member of SDS, a conscientious objector and a friend of Abbie Hoffman. We're fine today but I still think he was a jerk about it back then.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
November 7th, 2013 at 12:17:24 PM
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Hey, time cures all wounds. I no longer think of Mohammed Ali as Cassius Clay .
But with Hanoi Jane,I have not quite got there yet !
But with Hanoi Jane,I have not quite got there yet !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 7th, 2013 at 12:53:43 PM
permalink
Quote: BuzzardNo harassment, but what used to piss me off was that on tv shows the nut job was always a Vietnam Vet. And killers in the newspaper was often painted with that same brush, which 90% of the time was not true. And of course those politicians who bragged about their sacrifices in Vietnam, until exposed as liars.
But quite a few vets made it back in one piece, but had trouble surviving here. I worked with a guy named Thomas Shanaman. He was one of only 3 survivors in his unit. But I found that out second hand, he never talked about it. Worked evening with him for several years. Great guy to work with. After things slowed at 8pm, he would carry the load and fight for something to work on. On
weekends he would work on crossword puzzles when things were slow. Anything not to put his brain in neutral, I guess. He rode the
bus home and would grab a 6 pack at the corner liquor store.
They AT&T forced us to another location and Tom was on days. Last time I spoke to him he had 153 days until he could take early
retirement. He never made double digits. A month later he shot himself in the head. They played this song at his funeral.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzdigxCIuOE
Just before I retired somebody introduced me to a new hire. Thomas Shanaman Jr. Nice kid. I told him his Dad was a hell of a nice guy. Always regretted I could not tell him anymore than that !
I've told people for years that "a job provides a hell of a lot more than just a paycheck". It's not something those in a routine of getting up going to work and living their lives stop to think about much.
That job for many is all they have to cling too, it is their purpose and reason for continuing. It is why they clean themselves up, eat, sleep and is their only social interaction with others. Personally I spent some years when Monday was my best day of the week. The social tragedy that is called offshoring has taken away any reason for decency for many. When someone has nothing to lose, they've lost their reason for not doing criminal behavior. Modern criminals who would have worked at a moderate wage and stayed out of trouble now look at 3 hots and a cot with friends as their only alternative.
There are a lot of borderline people out there that would prefer working to other means of survival. The planned destruction of the middle class is evil.
In the ballad there, VFW's were treated with greater reverence prior to Vietnam. It bother's me that ostensibly we went to war with Vietnam to stop the spread of communism. Well the Chinese are still communist and now the same people that sent us to fight and die are the same ones that make the decisions to send our manufacturing there eliminating the means for our returning warriors to provide for themselves when they come back. WTF
November 7th, 2013 at 1:08:04 PM
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Hey, did you forget ? If Saigon fell to communism, Trenton, New Jersey would be next. The domino theory. I remember climbing under my desk in grade school to prepare for a nuclear attack from the Russians.
Seen too many friends retire and just fade away. The middle class is dead, nobody told them yet. 1957 I was earning $67.50 a week.
Blue Cross family medical coverage paid fully by the grocery store I worked for. I remember Maryland State incomer tax enacted in 1958 or 9. And at same time Doc at drug store around the corner put a big empty pickle jar with hole in lid on counter top. Would ring up $1 in sales and say "That's a dollar for me and a penny for the Governor." SALES TAX
Old farts would complain about liver being high them and start yapping it was only a nickle a pound back in the day. Dad would cuss and say, Yeah And I did not have a nickle and neither did you ! These are the Good old Days.
Damn right he was. All a Dad had to do then was get his kid a honorable discharge and/or a GED and he could get him a union job at Bethlehem steel, Retail Clerks, Fisher Body, Chevy plant, etc. And if his son could handle his money in a few year he had a house in the suburbs, a car, and Mom could stay home and raise his kids. Then days are gone forever for the working man.
Seen too many friends retire and just fade away. The middle class is dead, nobody told them yet. 1957 I was earning $67.50 a week.
Blue Cross family medical coverage paid fully by the grocery store I worked for. I remember Maryland State incomer tax enacted in 1958 or 9. And at same time Doc at drug store around the corner put a big empty pickle jar with hole in lid on counter top. Would ring up $1 in sales and say "That's a dollar for me and a penny for the Governor." SALES TAX
Old farts would complain about liver being high them and start yapping it was only a nickle a pound back in the day. Dad would cuss and say, Yeah And I did not have a nickle and neither did you ! These are the Good old Days.
Damn right he was. All a Dad had to do then was get his kid a honorable discharge and/or a GED and he could get him a union job at Bethlehem steel, Retail Clerks, Fisher Body, Chevy plant, etc. And if his son could handle his money in a few year he had a house in the suburbs, a car, and Mom could stay home and raise his kids. Then days are gone forever for the working man.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 8th, 2013 at 11:00:29 PM
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Just went into town and seen quite a few vets there for the weekend.
There have been a lot of war songs over the years, what do you remember?
http://youtu.be/p_xDVyUOzYg
There have been a lot of war songs over the years, what do you remember?
http://youtu.be/p_xDVyUOzYg
November 10th, 2013 at 10:00:12 AM
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Quote: petroglyphJust went into town and seen quite a few vets there for the weekend.
There have been a lot of war songs over the years, what do you remember?
http://youtu.be/p_xDVyUOzYg
Abraham, Martin, and John - Dion
Ohio - Neil Young
One Two Three Four - Country Joe and the Fish?
Creedence - many things of the time, like Run Through the Jungle, Fortunate Son, and Who'll Stop the Rain
War - Temptations
Hair - musical soundtrack; several songs
Elvis trilogy (Dixie/All My Trials/Battle Hymn of the Republic)
All Vietnam era songs above
I'm Proud to Be an American - mid-eighties - Lee Greenwood - wasn't really written about war, but came to be associated with 1st Gulf War early 90's
Lots of traditional songs from past conflicts, (ie Yankee Doodle) but those I listed were current to times in my life
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
November 10th, 2013 at 10:45:56 AM
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Thanks Babs, how about Jackson Brown lives in the balance?
http://youtu.be/ljIVuQdQnRk
Or Barry McGuire, Eve of Destruction?
http://youtu.be/3FsBEdPbXqg
Or one more, Sink the Bismarck by Johnny Horton?
http://youtu.be/M1Ufc2hI4FM
To our P.O.W.'s we will never forget.
http://youtu.be/ljIVuQdQnRk
Or Barry McGuire, Eve of Destruction?
http://youtu.be/3FsBEdPbXqg
Or one more, Sink the Bismarck by Johnny Horton?
http://youtu.be/M1Ufc2hI4FM
To our P.O.W.'s we will never forget.
November 10th, 2013 at 11:37:24 AM
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Quote: beachbumbabs
I'm Proud to Be an American - mid-eighties - Lee Greenwood - wasn't really written about war, but came to be associated with 1st Gulf War early 90's
I thought this was associated with 9/11.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
November 10th, 2013 at 12:04:54 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabs
I'm Proud to Be an American - mid-eighties - Lee Greenwood - wasn't really written about war, but came to be associated with 1st Gulf War early 90's
The AF still plays this song for every damn thing lol. I thought it was a parody of a patriotic song since I heard it on South Park all the time, but lo and behold when I finished BEAST guess what was blaring over the speakers? Having to not laugh while a TI was breathing down your neck was always the hardest parts about basic training.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
November 10th, 2013 at 12:08:44 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanI thought this was associated with 9/11.
I would say yes, it has become that, not just also, but predominantly. But it was written in 1984, mostly on behalf of the farm crisis going on at the time, with most if not all small farms going bankrupt and/or selling out to the megafarms after generations of post-pioneer farming the same land. The first time I heard the song was in 1987, when watching then-World Champion acrobatic pilot Patty Wagstaff fly her new routine, trailing red white and blue smoke. It totally put tears in my eyes; was a very Reagan-era song.
Then, under Bush, we had the Gulf War, and casualties from that, and yellow ribbons, and such, and it was the main song played when honoring their service.
Then, after 9/11, it and "God Bless America" became sort of twin anthems.
And all along, it's been a staple of every NASCAR event I've been to or seen for almost 30 years now. So it's definitely showing staying power, and I expect they're teaching it in school choir right alongside "America the Beautiful" these days, which I applaud if they are.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
November 10th, 2013 at 10:12:21 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabsMy ex and I participated in the reading of the names several times whenever it came through Florida. It's an honor and very moving. He was the only survivor of his Blue Team at one point, and they're all on there. I saw the big one first in 1993, before I met him. I think it's the most meaningful memorial for me, along with Thomas Jefferson's.
You have my respect, reading the names must have been difficult for any sentient human being.
Today was my first visit to the wall. I am very glad I went.
When I first pulled into the parking lot it looked vacant, and I was upset, wondering why there weren't more cars wondering if I'd somehow missed it.
As I got closer the cars were as close as they could get cutting down on the walk, necessary for some. As I stayed for awhile I realized there was a pretty steady rotation of people paying their respects. Everyone there was courteous and I think humbled, I was.
What a powerful emotional experience.
November 10th, 2013 at 10:50:17 PM
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This makes no sense at all. I only have one favorite song. By favorite I mean HAVE to sing when I hear it on the radio.
Josie just gets out of the car and goes in the house if it comes on as I pull into the driveway.
Nothing to do with Nam or any other life experience. Just have to sing along. It's STUPID
YOU're SO Vain by Carly Simon
WTF ? Why that song ?
Josie just gets out of the car and goes in the house if it comes on as I pull into the driveway.
Nothing to do with Nam or any other life experience. Just have to sing along. It's STUPID
YOU're SO Vain by Carly Simon
WTF ? Why that song ?
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 10th, 2013 at 10:52:31 PM
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10 minutes till Midnight and Veterans day here in Colorado.
Doesn't seem right to toast all those who sacrificed so much with a can of diet Orand Crush.
So I will just sign off and say Thanks Fellas THANKS to those alive to read this.
Doesn't seem right to toast all those who sacrificed so much with a can of diet Orand Crush.
So I will just sign off and say Thanks Fellas THANKS to those alive to read this.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 11th, 2013 at 12:17:55 AM
permalink
He was getting old and paunchy
And his hair was falling fast,
And he sat around the Legion,
Telling stories of the past.
Of a war that he once fought in
And the deeds that he had done,
In his exploits with his buddies;
They were heroes, every one.
And 'tho sometimes to his neighbors
His tales became a joke,
All his buddies listened quietly
For they knew where of he spoke.
But we'll hear his tales no longer,
For ol' Joe has passed away,
And the world's a little poorer
For a Veteran died today.
He won't be mourned by many,
Just his children and his wife.
For he lived an ordinary,
Very quiet sort of life.
He held a job and raised a family,
Going quietly on his way;
And the world won't note his passing,
'Tho a Veteran died today.
When politicians leave this earth,
Their bodies lie in state,
While thousands note their passing,
And proclaim that they were great.
Papers tell of their life stories
From the time that they were young,
But the passing of a Veteran
Goes unnoticed, and unsung.
Is the greatest contribution
To the welfare of our land,
Someone who breaks his promise
And deceives his fellow man?
Or the ordinary fellow
Who in times of war and strife,
Goes off to serve his country
And offers up his life?
The politician's stipend
And the style in which he lives,
Are often disproportionate,
To the service that he gives.
While the ordinary Veteran,
Who offered up his all,
Is paid off with a medal
And perhaps a pension, small.
It is not the politicians
With their compromise and ploys,
Who won for us the freedom
That our country now enjoys.
Should you find yourself in danger,
With your enemies at hand,
Would you really want some cop-out,
With his ever-waffling stand?
Or would you want a Veteran
His home, his country, his kin,
Just a common Veteran,
Who would fight until the end.
He was just a common Veteran,
And his ranks are growing thin,
But his presence should remind us
We may need his likes again.
For when countries are in conflict,
We find the Veteran's part,
Is to clean up all the troubles
That the politicians start.
If we cannot do him honor
While he's here to hear the praise,
Then at least let's give him homage
At the ending of his days.
Perhaps just a simple headline
In the paper that might say:
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING,
A VETERAN DIED TODAY."
And his hair was falling fast,
And he sat around the Legion,
Telling stories of the past.
Of a war that he once fought in
And the deeds that he had done,
In his exploits with his buddies;
They were heroes, every one.
And 'tho sometimes to his neighbors
His tales became a joke,
All his buddies listened quietly
For they knew where of he spoke.
But we'll hear his tales no longer,
For ol' Joe has passed away,
And the world's a little poorer
For a Veteran died today.
He won't be mourned by many,
Just his children and his wife.
For he lived an ordinary,
Very quiet sort of life.
He held a job and raised a family,
Going quietly on his way;
And the world won't note his passing,
'Tho a Veteran died today.
When politicians leave this earth,
Their bodies lie in state,
While thousands note their passing,
And proclaim that they were great.
Papers tell of their life stories
From the time that they were young,
But the passing of a Veteran
Goes unnoticed, and unsung.
Is the greatest contribution
To the welfare of our land,
Someone who breaks his promise
And deceives his fellow man?
Or the ordinary fellow
Who in times of war and strife,
Goes off to serve his country
And offers up his life?
The politician's stipend
And the style in which he lives,
Are often disproportionate,
To the service that he gives.
While the ordinary Veteran,
Who offered up his all,
Is paid off with a medal
And perhaps a pension, small.
It is not the politicians
With their compromise and ploys,
Who won for us the freedom
That our country now enjoys.
Should you find yourself in danger,
With your enemies at hand,
Would you really want some cop-out,
With his ever-waffling stand?
Or would you want a Veteran
His home, his country, his kin,
Just a common Veteran,
Who would fight until the end.
He was just a common Veteran,
And his ranks are growing thin,
But his presence should remind us
We may need his likes again.
For when countries are in conflict,
We find the Veteran's part,
Is to clean up all the troubles
That the politicians start.
If we cannot do him honor
While he's here to hear the praise,
Then at least let's give him homage
At the ending of his days.
Perhaps just a simple headline
In the paper that might say:
"OUR COUNTRY IS IN MOURNING,
A VETERAN DIED TODAY."
November 11th, 2013 at 3:37:47 AM
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What is really striking is that when I first read the above, it instantly reminded me of the following poem recited by this 100+ year old black lady in the Ken Burns Civil War serial:
I am a soldier, and my speech is rough and plain.
I'm not much used to writing, and I hate to give you pain,
But I promised I would do it, and he thought it might be so
If it came from one that loved him, perhaps it would ease the blow.
By this time, you must surely guess the truth I feign would hide,
And you'll pardon me for rough soldier words, while I tell you how he died.
It was in the maw of battle. Fast rained the shot and shell.
I was standing close beside him, and I saw him when he fell.
So I took him in my arms, and laid him on the grass.
It was going against orders, but I think they let it pass.
'Twas a minne ball that struck him. It entered at his side.
But we didn't think it fatal 'til this morning, when he died.
"Last night, I wanted so to live. I seemed so young to go.
Last week I passed my birthday. I was just 19, you know.
When I thought of all I planned to do, it seemed so hard to die.
But now I pray to God for Grace, and all my cares gone by."
And here his voice grew weaker, as he paused and raised his head.
And whispered, "Goodbye, Mother." And your soldier boy was dead.
I carved him out a headboard, as skillful as I could
And if you wish to find it, I can tell you where it stood.
I send you back his hymnbook, the cap he used to wear,
The lock I cut the night before, of his bright, curly hair.
I send you back his bible; The night before he died,
I turned its leaves together, and read it by his side.
I keep the belt he was wearing; He told me so to do.
It has a hole upon the side, just where the ball went through.
So now I've done his bidding. I've nothing more to tell.
But I shall always mourn with you the boy we loved so well.
I am a soldier, and my speech is rough and plain.
I'm not much used to writing, and I hate to give you pain,
But I promised I would do it, and he thought it might be so
If it came from one that loved him, perhaps it would ease the blow.
By this time, you must surely guess the truth I feign would hide,
And you'll pardon me for rough soldier words, while I tell you how he died.
It was in the maw of battle. Fast rained the shot and shell.
I was standing close beside him, and I saw him when he fell.
So I took him in my arms, and laid him on the grass.
It was going against orders, but I think they let it pass.
'Twas a minne ball that struck him. It entered at his side.
But we didn't think it fatal 'til this morning, when he died.
"Last night, I wanted so to live. I seemed so young to go.
Last week I passed my birthday. I was just 19, you know.
When I thought of all I planned to do, it seemed so hard to die.
But now I pray to God for Grace, and all my cares gone by."
And here his voice grew weaker, as he paused and raised his head.
And whispered, "Goodbye, Mother." And your soldier boy was dead.
I carved him out a headboard, as skillful as I could
And if you wish to find it, I can tell you where it stood.
I send you back his hymnbook, the cap he used to wear,
The lock I cut the night before, of his bright, curly hair.
I send you back his bible; The night before he died,
I turned its leaves together, and read it by his side.
I keep the belt he was wearing; He told me so to do.
It has a hole upon the side, just where the ball went through.
So now I've done his bidding. I've nothing more to tell.
But I shall always mourn with you the boy we loved so well.
December 7th, 2013 at 12:14:45 PM
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December 7th, 2013 today
December 7th, 1941 "Day of infamy" otherwise known as Pearl Harbor day
December 7th, 1941 "Day of infamy" otherwise known as Pearl Harbor day
December 7th, 2013 at 12:54:08 PM
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Quote: petroglyphDecember 7th, 2013 today
December 7th, 1941 "Day of infamy" otherwise known as Pearl Harbor day
Pearl Harbor instantly spiked enlistments in the military. It's what prompted my father, five of his brothers and two sisters to join. When he enlisted in the Navy he had to wait in line most of the day because so many volunteers had swamped the recruiting offices. It was called patriotism. Like most veterans he didn't talk about it. You only find out what they did after they die. I'm the same way and I think most vets understand this.
If you've never seen the USS Arizona Memorial get over to Honolulu and make that first on your list. It's a very respectful place and if you even talk above a whisper those old WWII vets who volunteer there will shush you in a hurry.
The National WWII Museum in New Orleans is also a must see. I had the privilege of touring it this past September.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
December 7th, 2013 at 2:23:17 PM
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Quote: BuzzardHey, time cures all wounds. I no longer think of Mohammed Ali as Cassius Clay .
But with Hanoi Jane,I have not quite got there yet !
If I could just live long enough to piss on the bitch's grave.
October 26th, 2014 at 4:16:21 PM
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Just in case you have the opportunity this is http://www.travelingwall.us/ a schedule for the Travelling Wall, it is an emotional experience.
Lest we forget: Liam Clancy, the battle of Galipolee. http://youtu.be/PFCekeoSTwg
Lest we forget: Liam Clancy, the battle of Galipolee. http://youtu.be/PFCekeoSTwg
November 11th, 2014 at 3:31:58 AM
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Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting war. - Mark Twain
I salute and thank all my fellow veterans on this Veteran's Day.
I salute and thank all my fellow veterans on this Veteran's Day.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
November 11th, 2014 at 6:50:13 AM
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Quote: 1BBAnyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting war. - Mark Twain
I salute and thank all my fellow veterans on this Veteran's Day.
Same to you.
1st Air Cav, 66-67. (Infantry)
November 11th, 2014 at 7:38:36 AM
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Same to you and us all. Thanx for the Mark Twin quote, don't recall seeing that one before.Quote: 1BBAnyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting war. - Mark Twain
I salute and thank all my fellow veterans on this Veteran's Day.
11th Armored Cav '69
1st Air Cav '69 - '70
November 11th, 2014 at 12:39:40 PM
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While more appropriate for Memorial Day, I may not come across the picture again.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
November 11th, 2014 at 2:18:47 PM
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Was WW2 the last war where we weren't the aggressor?
November 11th, 2014 at 2:20:52 PM
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Quote: rudeboyoiWas WW2 the last war where we weren't the aggressor?
I think many would argue the War in Afghanistan would qualify.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
November 11th, 2014 at 2:34:33 PM
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Quote: FaceI think many would argue the War in Afghanistan would qualify.
What's the argument there?
November 11th, 2014 at 3:00:34 PM
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Quote: rudeboyoiWhat's the argument there?
bin Laden attacked, so we attacked him back. Pearl Harbor : WWII as 9/11 : Afgan War.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
November 11th, 2014 at 3:08:31 PM
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Quote: Facebin Laden attacked, so we attacked him back. Pearl Harbor : WWII as 9/11 : Afgan War.
Say a few random Americans went up and destroyed some buildings in Canada, would our country as a whole be the aggressor?
November 11th, 2014 at 3:14:03 PM
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Quote: rudeboyoiWhat's the argument there?
The topic is the Travelling Vietnam Memorial Wall, Mkay
November 11th, 2014 at 3:14:08 PM
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Depends on what the grievance with Canada might be.Quote: rudeboyoiSay a few random Americans went up and destroyed some buildings in Canada, would our country as a whole be the aggressor?
November 11th, 2014 at 4:09:01 PM
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lay off the beer store or else.
get second you pig
November 11th, 2014 at 5:01:15 PM
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And back on topic.....
I have been to the Vietnam Memorial in DC numerous times. This site prompted me to do a little search and see if I could find how many people from the small town that I currently live in are on the Wall. Six.
I also looked up the small town I grew up in. Seven.
Las Vegas. Fifty-Six.
Vietnam Wall Search Site
It is heart wrenching to see how young so many of these valiant men were.
I have been to the Vietnam Memorial in DC numerous times. This site prompted me to do a little search and see if I could find how many people from the small town that I currently live in are on the Wall. Six.
I also looked up the small town I grew up in. Seven.
Las Vegas. Fifty-Six.
Vietnam Wall Search Site
It is heart wrenching to see how young so many of these valiant men were.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
November 11th, 2014 at 6:41:17 PM
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Quote: Buzzardupset at the design of the original memorial .
Quote:The selected design was very controversial, in particular its unconventional design, its black color and its lack of ornamentation. Some public officials voiced their displeasure, calling the wall "a black gash of shame."[7] Two prominent early supporters of the project, H. Ross Perot and James Webb, withdrew their support once they saw the design. Said Webb, “I never in my wildest dreams imagined such a nihilistic slab of stone.” James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under President Ronald Reagan, initially refused to issue a building permit for the memorial due to the public outcry about the design.[8] Since its early years, criticism of the Memorial's design faded. In the words of Scruggs, "It has become something of a shrine."[7]
It was considered a radical design at the time. Many people preferred a more traditional monument.
Unless it was something completely ridiculous, I think people would have come to like anything as long as it was elegant and respectful.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
November 8th, 2018 at 1:04:54 PM
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A travelling Vietnam Veterans memorial wall is in Laughlin Nevada today 11/8/2018 through Sunday 11/11/2018 at the Tropicana Casino.
If you have visited before or doing so for the first time, it is a memorable and emotional experience.
https://troplaughlin.com/events/2017-veterans-weekend-celebration/
If you have visited before or doing so for the first time, it is a memorable and emotional experience.
https://troplaughlin.com/events/2017-veterans-weekend-celebration/
November 8th, 2018 at 1:27:21 PM
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Quote: petroglyphA travelling Vietnam Veterans memorial wall is in Laughlin Nevada today 11/8/2018 through Sunday 11/11/2018 at the Tropicana Casino.
If you have visited before or doing so for the first time, it is a memorable and emotional experience.
https://troplaughlin.com/events/2017-veterans-weekend-celebration/
Trop is very nice to Veterans. It's got my business when in Laughlin. I was thinking of heading down for Larry The Cable Guy on Sunday at one of their competitors.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
November 8th, 2018 at 1:47:39 PM
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Find a name or two on the wall...read about them...here is one for which a chow hall is named (if it still there, it has been a few years) at Marine Corps' Officer Candidate's School in Quantico, Va:
The President of the United States takes pride in presenting the MEDAL OF HONOR posthumously to
SECOND LIEUTENANT JOHN P. BOBO
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS
for service as set forth in the following
CITATION:
"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as Weapons Platoon Commander, Company I, Third Battalion, Ninth Marines, Third Marine Division, in Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 30 March 1967. Company I was establishing night ambush sites when the command group was attacked by a reinforced North Vietnamese company supported by heavy automatic weapons and mortar fire. Lieutenant Bobo immediately organized a hasty defense and moved from position to position encouraging the outnumbered Marines despite the murderous enemy fire. Recovering a rocket launcher from among the friendly casualties, he organized a new launcher team and directed its fire into the enemy gun positions. When an exploding enemy mortar round severed Lieutenant Bobo's right leg below the knee, he refused to be evacuated and insisted upon being placed in a firing position to cover the movement of the command group to a better location. With a web belt around his leg, jammed into the dirt to curtail the bleeding, he remained in this position and delivered devastating fire into the ranks of the enemy attempting to overrun the Marines. Lieutenant Bobo was mortally wounded while firing his weapon into the main point of the enemy attack but his valiant spirit inspired his men to heroic efforts, and his tenacious stand enabled the command group to gain a protective position where it repulsed the enemy onslaught. Lieutenant Bobo's superb leadership, dauntless courage, and bold initiative reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country."
I have found others, including the father a friend of mine never met and read of their heroism that might not have merited the Medal of Honor, but was certainly way above the call of duty...
Do the same for more recent actions.
It is humbling. I always wonder...where do we find such men? ...and more and more often than in the past...and women...
The President of the United States takes pride in presenting the MEDAL OF HONOR posthumously to
SECOND LIEUTENANT JOHN P. BOBO
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS
for service as set forth in the following
CITATION:
"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as Weapons Platoon Commander, Company I, Third Battalion, Ninth Marines, Third Marine Division, in Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 30 March 1967. Company I was establishing night ambush sites when the command group was attacked by a reinforced North Vietnamese company supported by heavy automatic weapons and mortar fire. Lieutenant Bobo immediately organized a hasty defense and moved from position to position encouraging the outnumbered Marines despite the murderous enemy fire. Recovering a rocket launcher from among the friendly casualties, he organized a new launcher team and directed its fire into the enemy gun positions. When an exploding enemy mortar round severed Lieutenant Bobo's right leg below the knee, he refused to be evacuated and insisted upon being placed in a firing position to cover the movement of the command group to a better location. With a web belt around his leg, jammed into the dirt to curtail the bleeding, he remained in this position and delivered devastating fire into the ranks of the enemy attempting to overrun the Marines. Lieutenant Bobo was mortally wounded while firing his weapon into the main point of the enemy attack but his valiant spirit inspired his men to heroic efforts, and his tenacious stand enabled the command group to gain a protective position where it repulsed the enemy onslaught. Lieutenant Bobo's superb leadership, dauntless courage, and bold initiative reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country."
I have found others, including the father a friend of mine never met and read of their heroism that might not have merited the Medal of Honor, but was certainly way above the call of duty...
Do the same for more recent actions.
It is humbling. I always wonder...where do we find such men? ...and more and more often than in the past...and women...
November 8th, 2018 at 2:07:31 PM
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We don't find them. Circumstances do.
Years ago, I was at a bar when I noticed the guy next to me was wearing a Naval Academy ring. We got to talking and he told me he had served in the Corp in Vietnam.
I asked him about Ollie North as they were about the same age and it turned out they'd been in the same class. We talked some more about things and the bartender said something about the Service Academy turning out heroes. I'll never forget his reply. He told the bartender a hero is simply someone in the wrong place at the wrong time that does the right thing. Take away any one of those factors and we have no hero.
Years ago, I was at a bar when I noticed the guy next to me was wearing a Naval Academy ring. We got to talking and he told me he had served in the Corp in Vietnam.
I asked him about Ollie North as they were about the same age and it turned out they'd been in the same class. We talked some more about things and the bartender said something about the Service Academy turning out heroes. I'll never forget his reply. He told the bartender a hero is simply someone in the wrong place at the wrong time that does the right thing. Take away any one of those factors and we have no hero.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
November 8th, 2018 at 2:57:56 PM
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Quote: billryanWe don't find them. Circumstances do.
Years ago, I was at a bar when I noticed the guy next to me was wearing a Naval Academy ring. We got to talking and he told me he had served in the Corp in Vietnam.
I asked him about Ollie North as they were about the same age and it turned out they'd been in the same class. We talked some more about things and the bartender said something about the Service Academy turning out heroes. I'll never forget his reply. He told the bartender a hero is simply someone in the wrong place at the wrong time that does the right thing. Take away any one of those factors and we have no hero.
I do get that, of course, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they had the stones to do the right thing in spite of the odds being against them.
I had a guy who worked for me once who drove a LAV into the open to engage a tank so that a nearby tank killer could take it out.
