Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
  • Threads: 86
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April 22nd, 2013 at 5:22:27 PM permalink
Alright, I give up.

How about this opinion: only stupid people bet the field, DUH!!!!

Does that make me fit in better here or what?!?!

Let's keep these conversations on rails.

After all, nobody can handle a suggestion that a field bet isn't stupid. So let's just go with the stupid thing then.

Oh my god all those people playing craps are retarded! IKR!!! Hardways and field bets!! Why stop there when you can bet the any seven bet for $50,000 at Caesar's Palace! Or maybe a $50,000 put bet after the point is established at a four! Gawd how stupid people are out there to make a $5 field bet!!!

Yeah those people are stupid and I'm smart making max odds and come bets only. Yeah. Smart me.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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April 22nd, 2013 at 5:54:33 PM permalink
Ohoh. another screw is coming loose...

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
TheWolf713
TheWolf713
Joined: Feb 12, 2013
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April 22nd, 2013 at 6:06:22 PM permalink
I do understand that ahigh was trying to the give a different perspective... And yes most beginners do play the field... But when a person grabs software and begins research, I believe he is looking to be brought up to speed versus "playing wild fun and free".
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
nezbit
nezbit
Joined: Apr 1, 2013
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April 22nd, 2013 at 6:23:52 PM permalink
past rolls do no influence future rolls at all. This is a very noobish video.


Try this is you want an 83.333% winner and only 16.666% loser

you need $205, ABS (Anything But Seven) or AB7

place the 5 for $50,and the 6and 8 for $60 each. Now chuck the last $35 on the field

here is what happens based on what rolsl

2 - $70 double
3 - $35
4 - $35
5 - $70 - $35 field = $35
6 - $70 - $35 field = $35
8 - $70 - $35 field = $35
9 - $35
10 - $35
11 - $35
12 - $105

if you roll a 7 your dusted and lose the whole $205

so you have 30 winners and 6 losers

you can expect to win $38.50 per win and -$205 when you lose

win 5/6 times
lose 1/6 times
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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April 22nd, 2013 at 7:52:42 PM permalink
Quote: nezbit

Try this is you want an 83.333% winner and only 16.666% loser


All that fun and at a cost of just $15 a throw.
tupp
tupp
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
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April 22nd, 2013 at 8:41:47 PM permalink
I have been playing craps for almost 40 years, and I bet the field sometimes. I've been lucky at it lately.

A house edge of 2.78% doesn't bother me too much. It's all a matter of degree.
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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April 22nd, 2013 at 9:12:23 PM permalink
Quote: nezbit

Try this is you want an 83.333% winner and only 16.666% loser

you need $205, ABS (Anything But Seven) or AB7

place the 5 for $50,and the 6and 8 for $60 each. Now chuck the last $35 on the field

Fighting BS one post at a time!
Jimbo
Jimbo
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
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April 23rd, 2013 at 8:26:37 AM permalink
Quote: nezbit

Try this is you want an 83.333% winner and only 16.666% loser

you need $205, ABS (Anything But Seven) or AB7

place the 5 for $50,and the 6 and 8 for $60 each. Now chuck the last $35 on the field

The "Anything But Seven" is a known "system" of using the field as some sort of "hedge" in conjunction with betting other numbers to insure getting paid in all circumstances--except, of course, in the case of a seven. In fact, there is an Auto-Bet for this in WinCraps (anybut7.bet). I also recall vaguely reading about this "system" in a book--maybe the Mensa Guide to Gambling, but I can't be certain.

I don't know if "nezbit" is advocating this "system" as a smart way to play or whether it is suggested only as a way to at least collect on a bet more times than not even though the overall loss exceeds the overall win. The bottom line is that the losses in the case of a seven wipe out the wins.

By the way, I don't believe in "systems" which is why I put the word in quotes. Like the Wizard and most people on this Forum, I also do not believe in a hedge. A "hedge" is a method of insurance that is meant to protect against risk. It should not be used to increase losses.

As I figure it, the house edge on using the "Anything But Seven" is 3.14% which is higher than the house edge for simply betting the field (which is 2.78%). I also read that the house edge on this system is 3.97% but I could not conclude how that was figured. Someone else can gladly correct or educate me. Perhaps the Wizard has calculated this already.

Another "system" is to cover all six points with place bets as well as betting the field--so that the 4, 9, and 10 will be paid twice. Though there will be double payoff ten times, there is a reduction in winnings 14 times. I believe the house edge here is a little lower than the "Anything But Seven" but still higher than if you bet the field by itself.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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April 23rd, 2013 at 8:34:34 AM permalink
http://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/craps/betting-systems/

Search for "MENSA" ..

To be fair, the edge per roll is lowered not raised with this system compared to a simple field bet.

The problem with the system is that it requires more money on the felt and has more exposure to a seven requiring a larger bankroll to be effective.

Many of these "anything but seven" approaches are advocated to be used on players who are expected to roll fewer than the average number of sevens.

The MP204 is a similar system that just pushes on crap and yo rolls compared to the iron cross. But it's equally bad for exploiting dice control (avoiding sevens) because the edge per roll is too high.

But if all you can do it avoid sevens, I think working the comeout with max odds is a far superior method of play where you just have to get a comfort level for the ups and downs.

MENSA, Iron Cross, and MP204 "systems" in general appeal to people who have learned a little bit about the game and are generally more interested to employ a system than to have fun playing the game or get serious about having enough of an edge for it to matter (which takes a lot more effort!)

Even when they work, most get a profit on average of $1 per roll or less with hundreds of dollars at risk of a seven being rolled at any moment.

For a new player who is looking for a system, it might be quicker to use systems on roulette as you will learn more quickly how systems don't work compared to craps where you could be left chasing a red herring for a long time before coming to the final conclusion that you are merely postponing a huge loss rather than avoiding it entirely.

There is also a "four rolls no seven" bet at Sam's Town, and I recently posted how to engineer a "Three rolls no seven bet" on my website. Both of these bets have pretty good edges per roll similar to the MENSA and Iron Cross systems.

http://forum.goodshooter.com/topic227.html

At 1.1412% edge per roll (EPR) for four rolls no seven and 1.8215% EPR for three rolls no seven (adding a 3-way red after the third roll), these both compare favorably to the 1.136% EPR on the other system of not rolling sevens mainly due to the lack of need of such a large amount of money being exposed. IE: you only have to bet $5 for a four rolls no seven to get a 1.136% EPR at Sam's Town. So for a small time bet, Sam's Town's no seven bet is a better deal than the Mensa approach. Also the dealers don't have to take so long to set it up.

But it's still the type of thing where if you're alright with 1% edge per roll or higher, you're probably more into systems than you are into trying to have a good shot that gives you an advantage.

There is merit to playing systems. Some people like postponing financial stress as evidenced by our country's use of credit cards.

Different strokes for different folks!
nezbit
nezbit
Joined: Apr 1, 2013
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April 23rd, 2013 at 8:57:05 AM permalink
so you can expect to win $38.50 per win and lose $41 per loss (this is averaged 30 wins vs 6 losses)

so on a $205 bet you can expect to lose (38.50 - 41) $2.50 per throw


-$2.50 / $205 wagered = -1.2195% expected value

not bad for a table game ( this percentage drops if 12 is only a double )



I have stated this before in other threads, i seriously hope this is the system that the DI/DC use. If they can "honestly avoid the 7" then they will/should have an edge and might as well get paid for every throw except a 7.

yes i have heard it called the iron cross as well.

You can obviously do different variations of the bet sizing as well. I just use the "205" because that is where i am comfortable bankroll wise personally.

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