R darkside odds worth it?

I know we should take as much odds as we can afford to lower the house edge, but, sense you have to bet more to win less on the darkside; is it wise to make a larger upfront bet because it pays better and not take the odds?

TY, Rick.

First of all, regardless of playing the lightside or darkside, you should always minimize your line bet (which has a house adv) and maximize your odds (which has no house adv).

Secondly, the mathematical difference on the pass vs. don't pass isn't enough to swing most people as to their preference. I happen to bet mostly on the dark side, because few shooters can make points in my experience. Over many years of trials, I lost much more on the lightside than the math predicts and have won much more on the darkside than the math predicts. I know what the math says, but my empirical results leave me firmly on the dark side.

Moreover, I am a natural contrarian, so it fits.

Quote: chancewager

is it wise to make a larger upfront bet because it pays better and not take the odds?
TY, Rick.

No, it is NOT wise.
It only appears to pay better.
The 7 and 11 wipe it out more on come out rolls, did you forget that part??? than the odds get wiped out.
Come on. Do the math and see.

Rick,
you are looking at the whole odds thing in Craps the wrong way.
Any odds bet in Craps has a 0% house edge.
Do you know what that means???

Even before you make a line bet, know how much total between the two parts you want to risk.
Then bet more on the odds than the flat, not more on the flat than the odds.

As a don't player you have a BIG edge (also the big favorite to win the bet) during the point round
That is why you have to risk MORE to WIN less.

Just like sports betting. You are NOT the dog here.
You have to give up the points because you are the odds on favorite when laying the odds on the don't side
never forget that.
You win less than you bet because you WIN more often than you lose. More wins in the point rounds.

Just make sure more of your don't bet is on the odds than the flat and
that gives you the best chances of being even or coming out ahead over your lifetime of play

There is only one key thing you need to know about odds in craps: use the free odds bet to get as much as YOU WANT TO BET PER DECISION on the odds rather than on the line. In that way, it reduces house edge.

If the table has a $5 minimum and $5 is all you want to bet, then taking or laying the free odds doesn't make any sense. It doesn't save you any money. It only adds variance, which may be what you want, but overall you will lose the same, whether you took odds or not.

But if the minimum is $5 and you want to bet $35, then the odds really help you. Then you can put $5 on the DP and lay $30 free odds, and now most of your bet is 0% house edge. Now you will lose less than if you bet $35 flat with no odds.

see ... prior posts on subject

Of course they're worth it. The odds bet in crap

should be posting on my blog today sometime a maddening experience with the darkside.

Nonetheless, it is the same as rightside betting: the odds are the way to go. As long as you can afford them anyway.

Quote: Beethoven9th

Of course they're worth it. The odds bet in craps is the only bet in the casino where the House Advantage is a big fat ZERO.

LOL

Quote: odiousgambit

should be posting on my blog today sometime a maddening experience with the darkside.

Most people who have played the darkside have a tale of getting creamed by a hot shooter. And, for some reason, it feels even worse than playing the lightside and getting creamed by a string of cold shooters. Probably because the former happens so frequently that we kick ourselves for not only being on the wrong side and losing, but not being on the right side and winning.

My advice, from a perennial darksider, is to have a planned exit, stop/loss strategy. Perhaps even switch to the rightside after a certain # of points are made.

Quote: 7craps

Even before you make a line bet, know how much total between the two parts you want to risk.
Then bet more on the odds than the flat, not more on the flat than the odds.

Just make sure more of your don't bet is on the odds than the flat and
that gives you the best chances of being even or coming out ahead over your lifetime of play.

Quote: sodawater

If the table has a $5 minimum and $5 is all you want to bet, then taking or laying the free odds doesn't make any sense. It doesn't save you any money. It only adds variance, which may be what you want, but overall you will lose the same, whether you took odds or not.

But if the minimum is $5 and you want to bet $35, then the odds really help you. Then you can put $5 on the DP and lay $30 free odds, and now most of your bet is 0% house edge. Now you will lose less than if you bet $35 flat with no odds.

The advantages of odds are obvious on the right side, but are not so clear on the dark side. Such as in this scenario:

- 2 players are betting the don't pass.

- 10 is rolled and they both take the action.

- Player 1 bets $5 and lays $20 odds = $25.

- Player 2 bets $25 and takes no odds.

- 7 is rolled and both win.

- Player 1 wins $15. (with odds)

- Player 2 wins $25. (without odds)

Yes player 2 risks more if 7 or 11 is rolled on the come out. But he wins more if the 2 or 3 is rolled. And wins more on the flat bet as well.

It seams like there are more factors to consider and can be a bit deceptive.

I will stick to the proven methods you suggest.

Quote: darthvader

Most people who have played the darkside have a tale of getting creamed by a hot shooter...

My advice, from a perennial darksider, is to have a planned exit, stop/loss strategy. Perhaps even switch to the rightside after a certain # of points are made.

Have switched sides and felt like a trader but you can't argue with a hot table. Let us know when you perfect your exit strategy, lol.

TY all, Rick :)

Rule Of Three: All the exit strategy you need!

Oh and no scenarios!

Quote: darthvader

Most people who have played the darkside have a tale of getting creamed by a hot shooter. And, for some reason, it feels even worse than playing the lightside and getting creamed by a string of cold shooters.

I can see the humor in it; see my blog post.

I get sucked into betting heavily from the comfort of being able to load up a bunch of numbers-to-be-resolved as a darksider in the early stages of a hot shooter run.

Quote: DeMango

Rule Of Three: All the exit strategy you need!

Help me out. What is your Rule of Three?

Lyle Stuart wrote decades ago to either switch sides or sit out after 3 losses. Mario Puzo later noted it was the best piece of gambling advice he ever received. The book is a great read; "Gambling for Winners" I think it was called.

Quote: DeMango

Rule Of Three: All the exit strategy you need!

Oh and no scenarios!

OK, no more scenarios. But it is what started me on this. The idea that there are multiple equations in play.

Are there any stats on the 3 strikes rule?

Rule of Side-Switching: [in case you havent heard me go on about it] The dice hate side switchers. Really, really, really, NO, really hate side-switchers. They like nothing better than teaching a lesson on the matter, really makes a die's day. Never switch sides during a session.

Quote: odiousgambit

The dice hate side switchers.

LOL

Seriously, though it may be a superstition, I have always believed that trying to judge the "temperature" of a craps table and then choose the side merely "doubles" your chance of losing--since invariably, you will likely pick wrong at the wrong time.

Thanks odiousgambit--I now have a new rule to put in my playbook: "Rule of Side-Switching"

LOL again.