Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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February 28th, 2013 at 4:01:47 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Ahigh,

The thing you just can't seem to grasp is that the casino doesn't care about larger than normal bets. The house edge fixes all ailments. If the player is not cheating, nobody cares how many times he rolls a number or how much he is betting. The house edge trumps everything.

If they suspect you are cheating, they might switch dice on you. There is nobody tracking dice rolls and putting in dice more likely to hit 5 or 9 when you are playing 6 and 8. It just doesn't happen.

I'm sure you're a nice guy and you seem fairly intelligent, but you are so off base on this topic it's begun to be comical.

ZCore13



I'm sure you are certain in what you believe. However, I have spoken personally with Wayne at the Silverton. He is the pit boss there. He disagrees with you. The last thing that he wants is to have some whale come in and take him for a chunk of change never to return. He sat down with me when I was showing him my die balance and explained this to me personally one-on-one in a very direct way. I take his word over yours. His view also is in contrast with other people in the same casino that also work there that have less experience than him and that report to him.

To make the point, he said that he wishes their bet limits were $500 instead of $1000. The last thing that he wants is to have brief action near table limits and to be taken from a lucky player.

If you doubt what I am saying, I will give you more information, and you can talk to Wayne about this yourself. But this isn't my perspective (taking bigger action with a different attitude than smaller action and defending against it) but I'm respectfully disagreeing with you on this. They treat normal action and table-limit action differently in these smaller casinos. This is not something that applies to a strip property with a lot of big action.

This is Fiesta Rancho, Gold Coast that we are talking about specifically. Not Bellagio. Not Wynn.

Context is relevant here. You are making a large blanket statement that I believe is not correct in this particular case of what we are talking about.

A big higher limit player can come in and exploit exposure from bad luck that the casino has to a lucky higher limit player if their limits are too large for their regular action.

This is specifically the instance when these theoretically biased dice could be called upon.

Your saying that I can't grasp something is ignorant of the fact that I am doing much more research than you appreciate.

If you want to talk details, and you are sure you are right and I am wrong, let's meet in person and discuss it further.

That's what Harley and I did, and Harley convinced me to do more digging to sway me to his perspective.

You could do the same, but just saying I "can't grasp" something isn't enough to convince me you're more knowledgeable on this subject than me.

Your view is more simplistic, frankly, and also less likely to be correct.

But I understand your perspective. I just believe it is a little less complex than mine, and a little more idealistic.

I wish my perspective were as simple as yours, and it was simpler before, but unfortunately, things are not so simple in terms of the things that I consider possible realities comparatively to your view.
TheWolf713
TheWolf713
Joined: Feb 12, 2013
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February 28th, 2013 at 4:06:18 PM permalink
Evenbob, you are dead on point.


The arrogance of gamblers... Smh... They truly believe that the casino has to add an extra edge to take their money... You do it for them!!!

You guys like to do alot of math.. Can somebody tell me the the time it will take for them to stop making excuses about the dice...is there a formula for that?
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
Ahigh
Ahigh
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February 28th, 2013 at 4:06:37 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Cheating is never legal, so if something is legal it's not cheating.

"NRS 465.083  Cheating.  It is unlawful for any person, whether the person is an owner or employee of or a player in an establishment, to cheat at any gambling game."



By the legal definition of cheating in the context of the law, you are 100% correct.

There are more definitions than legal definitions, however. It is those cases for which you can legally cheat using a definition of cheating that refers to other things like moral character, deception, and other definitions of cheating that are not specifically defined to a more limited definition by the law.
Ahigh
Ahigh
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February 28th, 2013 at 4:07:26 PM permalink
Quote: TheWolf713

Evenbob, you are dead on point.


The arrogance of gamblers... Smh... They truly believe that the casino has to add an extra edge to take their money... You do it for them!!!

You guys like to do alot of math.. Can somebody tell me the the time it will take for them to stop making excuses about the dice...is there a formula for that?



In case you're not aware, your perspective is the perspective I had a few weeks ago.

It's quite possible you just aren't up to speed!

Nevertheless, I actually hope that you are RIGHT!
TheWolf713
TheWolf713
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February 28th, 2013 at 5:02:48 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

In case you're not aware, your perspective is the perspective I had a few weeks ago.

It's quite possible you just aren't up to speed!

Nevertheless, I actually hope that you are RIGHT!




I applaud all your efforts and material that you bring to the board...


Right now it seems as if you are being pulled into a craps vortex of superstition and I don't believe you see it... (though you might not admit it) It all started wiith dice influence..

You can't expect a product (such as The dice) that is made in bulk (in freakin mexico by the way) to not have defective pieces... These defects will show up, and it just so happens to be on the table.. But the dice are also switched out every shift. To your benefit and the casino's... The casino doesnt care to know which batches are defective... They take the good wih the bad... It's random.

There will be dice that seem to set a table on fire, and others (like the set you encountered) that will draw suspicion of foul play... But if you acept one concept.. All of it goes out of the window... It's random!!!

Quick schematic: if you believe in dice influence, you will be sucked into biased dice, which will immediately suck you into a betting system to combat against the bias to achieve the goal of influencing.. You are experiencing the wrap around.. And you can't see it.. Smart people are always the easiest targets because it requires them to use their logic, something they have always had success using.

I don't mean to bore you with my Philosophy... Just trying to figure out what happened to the "it's all entertainment"
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
Ahigh
Ahigh
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February 28th, 2013 at 5:08:44 PM permalink
I already dumped a TON of time and resources into the biased dice theories last year and my conclusions were that it was a bunch of bull.

I appreciate your feedback, just also don't think I have just quickly fallen into the vortex. I am FIGHTING the vortex, yet I feel that I owe it to Harley to follow up on his leads and help him look at these possibilities. They seemed more remote on Saturday than on Sunday.

I very honestly hope that this all fades away. I don't enjoy this, especially the association with being someone who is falling victim to superstition.

It's work, that much I can assure you. And so far, for me, it has been work that I have done at the same time as I have lost money pursuing the investigation.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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February 28th, 2013 at 5:15:15 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh



It's work, that much I can assure you. And so far, for me, it has been work that I have done at the same time as I have lost money pursuing the investigation.



Nobody can figure out why you're doing it. Its
already been done by others and the conclusion
is always the same. DI is an urban legend. Even
Wong got sucked into it for awhile. He finally
said: Oh. Never mind...
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
TheWolf713
TheWolf713
Joined: Feb 12, 2013
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February 28th, 2013 at 5:27:08 PM permalink
I'm going to save Harley some man hours right now and wrap uP this investigation..

Perception: the casino has an elaborate scheme to suck every dollar out of craps players by using biased dice

The truth: There's a guy in Mexico working for 36 cents an hour filling up gold wrappers with dice and he doesn't give a dam whether they are square or triangles.. They are suppose to be checked by a supervisor (who also doesn't give a dam).. He figures someone else on the other side will check them, then they are wrapped up until they hit the casino floor.. When they arrive at a casino, nobody checks them because they think someone on the other side checked them (we call that passing the buck) and then you get them in your SL1 position... You set your dice and then.... The vortex of suspicion starts.....

Thank you and good day... The Prosecution rests
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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February 28th, 2013 at 5:31:04 PM permalink
IF a casino wanted to cheat at roulette, that is to give up their 5.26 percent advantage and go for far more, what would they do? Make the wheel heavy on Red or on Black? If they make it heavy on Green, you know all those groans will alert some sharpies who start betting the green very heavily. Why risk the license for a few paltry dollars more?

Same thing with dice. The regs require dice serial numbers and swapping some fake dice in and out is going to be risky as well as costly when some whimsical types switch to the Don'ts. How do you tell crooked dice to land on Seven quite often but never on a Come Out Roll?

Stupendous rolls at a craps table? Heck, some places will be happy to put a pair of dice on a red cushion and put it in some display case with a plaque on it somewhere. Only The Venitian insists on crushing its used dice.

The customers are all drunk, the women are all naked, money is flowing like water ... and you want to risk the Gold Mine by cheating for a few percentage points more? At the top of the Real Estate market, Strip Acreage went at fifty million per acre. That was the value without shaved dice. Just how much more value you think some jerk is gonna add by shaving the dice?
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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February 28th, 2013 at 5:32:21 PM permalink
Quote: TheWolf713

You set your dice and then.... The vortex of suspicion starts.....



No no no, its not the 'vortex'. Its the abyss. You
get sucked into the abyss, and its very hard to
crawl out.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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