VDC
VDC
Joined: Feb 18, 2013
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February 18th, 2013 at 1:00:33 PM permalink
First off I couldn't remember my PW for this site so i created a new username and abbrev it. VDC is who i am known on these boards. A Little quickie about me.I live in Vegas (15 years now) and have played craps since i was 21, currently 49. I really got into it in early 90's where i came to town and took classes by infamous Leonard Benson, Playing craps as a Profession. Learned some good things and believe it or not it still works today. Nonetheless, over the years i have become a little more skilled and savvy about the game and the casinos and for many years only played solo or with 1-2 others. kept a low pro and i liked it that way. I met SR and HH thru a friend whom we were both trying out for a pro Local Team of Di's here in town. Turns out SR and I are in same line of work Elevator, both Love the Game of Craps, have the same real first name, have the same first/last name initials. Some coincidences maybe, but nonetheless have never met til about 9 months ago. Go figure that and i was playing a few days a week here.

Anyway, the Laughlin run was kind of what I expected. I was invited by SR and HH to meet up with a few other Di invited to do a day Trip to Laughlin, where we tried to make a few bucks. We are all experienced enough to know when a bunch of Di's/DC's get together what could happen and what happens more often. And thats bankroll depletion as the expectation among DI is that they are all gonna have at least 1 monster roll. So we pre-empted that topic and said to all be careful as more times than not for whatever reason, it usually doesnt happen. Ao i was trying to stick to my Guns about betting just Trend Setter (a methology i developed over 10 yrs). on the tables we were at. Did not play it to the tilt as it requires me to make DP/DC bets on the table trend developing, so i was cautious to using it. Hinesight I wish i went full bore on it. It was kind of an up and down day with us all.

We Hit All Tall Small 3 times on 1 side and just missed everything by a # a few times. C.O 7's fked us as well as we would have hit it 1-2 times for everything but CO7 resets it all. A few high points of the day without getting into everyone else's rolls w/out permission from them to talk, were obvious the ATS (3) winners i hit. I hit a Hopping H8 on Ahigh as he banged out 7 eights in a 14 hand roll and 4 were hard. Wish i had got in on the start, but a few table trend s had me in a wait mode, but after seeing some of those 8's repeat, when it came soft after a hard, i fired back and hopped it for $10 and bang it hit. Speaking of 8's, I hit five 8's in 6 rolls using a Little Joes shot. I t has a tendencies of repeating numbers alot. Something you all should look into for an alternative to PARR. ATS -1 sided we hit Twice my me and once by SR. I was on it for $5 ea. I only shot I think like 6-7 times all day, and had a few hands into the 20's, but im usually good for at least 1 into 30's+, but didnt happen. I shot from a few diff spots and a few diff techniques, PARR SL2 and a diff technique from other spots.

I tend to be on the more of aggressive approach and good and bad things can happen with that. You tend to leave a lot of profits on table on mid roll hands 14 rolls and less and then if behind and trying to get back if down, you tend not to be aggressive but pull $$$ off table and leave MR aggressive on the bench, when a 34 hand roll by SR comes around. This is what happened to me. I use my aggressive Power Press in 3 phases. 1) 15 rolls than reduce, or 24) rolls than reduce, or 30) rolls than reduce. I wish i had used 30 on SR as I figured it out i would have collected about $4300 and Im sure something like that at days end would have warranted a $4-500 toke from me to SR. But bc i was behind, i had to grind back and i used 15 rolls then reduce from $64 across PP to $84 across PP and after 24 rolls i think i reduced again. I want to say i had $500 on felt when SR's 7 out came.

Well gotta get back to work in yard, if SR,AH,HH,MM, want to chime in, ill let them. But I had fun with the fellas as i always do. I think for me, it was kinda hard to get in a groove when you get bones every 1.5 hrs. But that's what happens when you play on times of full tables. I have a lot of the roll data as I track, but without consent of others i wont post it. I can talk about my stuff as I really dont care one way or another...later i can post what I did as i need to gather and separate everyones rolls.

I do have my last one handy, so i put it up: 8*,8 6*,12.5,4,6 7*,3*,3*,h4*, 4, 4*,5,5,9,h10,4 9*,3,11,5,3,h4,2,h6,7out. ( i probably left 1-2 # out as i get in a zone when i shoot and tend not to record 1-3 # during a 25-30+ roll) SR might have to check his records. One thing i remember that happened is that all 3 ATS payouts the 7 came very next roll. energy break in the game of 60 seconds and next roll 7 out. this happened early this month at GN las vegas to me as i hit it there too and next roll a 7 . im so tempted to look for the longest # that hasnt hit since that point and lay it 1 roll for $300 nest time. maybe its a 4,6,8,or 10 where i can hop hardway for $10 hedge.

VDC
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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February 18th, 2013 at 1:22:40 PM permalink
I had a good time. Thanks for inviting me.
TheWolf713
TheWolf713
Joined: Feb 12, 2013
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February 18th, 2013 at 4:17:52 PM permalink
That's good.. With the upmost respect, I have one question.



So even with multiple "DIs" on the table, you only generated a profit of 500 bucks? How long was the session... I also see you showed one of your high rolls.. (The 20+ data)... How many rolls were there of 6 and under..

Just curious, no disrespect intended.
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
VDC
VDC
Joined: Feb 18, 2013
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February 18th, 2013 at 7:41:08 PM permalink
Quote: TheWolf713

That's good.. With the upmost respect, I have one question.



So even with multiple "DIs" on the table, you only generated a profit of 500 bucks? How long was the session... I also see you showed one of your high rolls.. (The 20+ data)... How many rolls were there of 6 and under..

Just curious, no disrespect intended.



I did not mark everyone's on my sheets, as i didn't know id be in here justifying roll data. :) Just from my sheets, and again i did not always put an initial's to whom was shooting, as i had bigger fish to fry... but here is what I have in my recordings...

to answer your ? Looks like 7 rolls from (4) were under 6 or less from a total of 23.. so about 30% and 70% were higher.... Not making excuses, but a few of us were out of position as we had to fight to get on a few tables and get decent spots as some only had 1 option. This wasn't Vegas were you could just stroll from Casino to Casino to find good tables, good conditions etc... we had Pit bosses sweating us most of the time..they knew we were together and they did not want us to Win. We had to figure tables out on the fly, that would attest to a few shorties...as well as practicing in 1-2,3 spots from our own tables then taking the 3rd basemen and putting him in centerfield, he could play it, but not as good as a guy fielding that position day in and day out, but could manage...I felt we did decent for what we were up against. Could we have performed better here in Vegas...Without a doubt as we are familiar with casino, tables, personel staff etc...well heres some info below...

VDC: 3, 21, 5, 13, 8, 11, 27

S2:, 12, 12, 4, 34, 8, 16 but i think i may be missing 1

S3; 15, 4,, 3, 20, 3 again may be missing 1-2

S4: 6, 21, 8, 8, 14 and might be missing at least 2-3 of shooter 4

S5 ; totally incomplete.. gonna have to get SR's data for him
TheWolf713
TheWolf713
Joined: Feb 12, 2013
  • Threads: 20
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February 18th, 2013 at 7:50:59 PM permalink
Quote: VDC

I did not mark everyone's on my sheets, as i didn't know id be in here justifying roll data. :) Just from my sheets, and again i did not always put an initial's to whom was shooting, as i had bigger fish to fry... but here is what I have in my recordings...

to answer your ? Looks like 7 rolls from (4) were under 6 or less from a total of 23.. so about 30% and 70% were higher.... Not making excuses, but a few of us were out of position as we had to fight to get on a few tables and get decent spots as some only had 1 option. This wasn't Vegas were you could just stroll from Casino to Casino to find good tables, good conditions etc... we had Pit bosses sweating us most of the time..they knew we were together and they did not want us to Win. We had to figure tables out on the fly, that would attest to a few shorties...as well as practicing in 1-2,3 spots from our own tables then taking the 3rd basemen and putting him in centerfield, he could play it, but not as good as a guy fielding that position day in and day out, but could manage...I felt we did decent for what we were up against. Could we have performed better here in Vegas...Without a doubt as we are familiar with casino, tables, personel staff etc...well heres some info below...

VDC: 3, 21, 5, 13, 8, 11, 27

S2:, 12, 12, 4, 34, 8, 16 but i think i may be missing 1

S3; 15, 4,, 3, 20, 3 again may be missing 1-2

S4: 6, 21, 8, 8, 14 and might be missing at least 2-3 of shooter 4

S5 ; totally incomplete.. gonna have to get SR's data for him



I Toatally understand... There's nothing like puttng in Good hours practicing only to arrive there and find some Youtube pro (lol) standing in Your spot throwing the dice off the table from sl 1... I Appreciate it... Good to see guys putting in work..
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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February 19th, 2013 at 12:16:05 AM permalink
I was fortunate enough to be able to meet up with this group that VdC is speaking of here. I've read the forum for a couple months and got to put some genuine faces with names. That was great. So right away anyone reading this, they are real people and although you don't know me, my word says they not only talk the talk but they walk the walk as well. They take on all comer's, deal with the pit pressure, navigate around the obstacle's and get the job done. For those that are fairly new to the game, might be practicing a few hours a day for month's, also studying the literature on craps, paying attention when someone is available to teach you something about the game. These guys are definately in a class of their own when it comes to playing craps in real play, in a busy casino in foreign territory with hostile pit crews. That might have been the most amazing part of the journey, how they dealt with antagonistic pit people and boxman and the floor starting to fill up with suits not usually seen on the floor. Although some of the stick people were knowledgable as well as competant to play with, I thought the boxpeople were needlessly rude and arrogant, their attitude and behaviour was uncalled for. The crew here was playing a very good game under adverse conditions. The house was not being plundered, they certainly were not being cheated but seemed to act like the small money being payed by the house was actually their money and they hadn't just looted it from unsuspecting less knowledgable players. I watched the them let guy walk up told him the point was ten, and they let him put his wager on the pass line for even money instead of placing it for nine to five. The pit crew was tipped almost every role by one player or other steadily. As for the casino's "business mode", the way they treat craps players won't be retaining them. It's not like dice players get much respect anywhere but they stood out as trying to mess with the shooter, any shooter that didn't pso. Which I did, I'm pretty sure I could sense they giving me the stink eye anyway. They didn't seem to be happy about my friend betting the DP against himself and winning? These casino's are losing patrons by the busload and no wonder with the open contempt they shown the players. But we're dice players, that's what we have to put with some times, especially when you've committed that day do to the long drive out to laughlin. I prefer to not acknowledge my beginning dice skills, that's just my way but this once. I play in Laughlin very often and I won't say I've played with every shooter there but in two years I haven't seen anybody come close. I can't do it all the time but have had several roles over 40 minutes, my point being here is SR and friends blew me and my little skill set way out of water, out of casino down the road and metaphor. On a personal note I needed to see what I saw, until yesterday I was alone out there. Other's talk about their skills, about how amazed and wealthy we could all be, if we'd just take a couple thousand dollars worth of there dice school, buy there tapes and books and chant their mantra.
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
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February 19th, 2013 at 12:41:13 AM permalink
Wow, that got longer that I thought. If you get the opportunity to get around these guys and you really want to and are capable of learning, don't act dumb and leave any ego at the door. Accept the fact that there are people that know more than you do or just know differant things than you do, never turn down a vast resource of knowledge on any subject. At my age i don't have the time to re-invent the wheel so I need to get the benefits that I can from others who have went before me. I do really appreciate all of you guys yesterday for sharing, it helped me in ways that are difficult to explain. But is was a lot more than just how to throw dice, game theory or just money. Thankyou all, petroglyph and the guy from Alaska!!!
CrapsForever
CrapsForever
Joined: Mar 6, 2012
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February 19th, 2013 at 4:25:06 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

If you get the opportunity to get around these guys and you really want to and are capable of learning, don't act dumb and leave any ego at the door. Accept the fact that there are people that know more than you do or just know differant things than you do, never turn down a vast resource of knowledge on any subject.



GOLD!!!!!
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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February 19th, 2013 at 5:37:52 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

It's not like dice players get much respect anywhere but they stood out as trying to mess with the shooter, any shooter that didn't pso. ...They didn't seem to be happy about my friend betting the DP against himself and winning? These casino's are losing patrons by the busload and no wonder with the open contempt they've shown the players.

Heck, I've played DontPass when shooting and got complaints or dirty looks from everyone from the hooker risking her previous night's earnings to the crew who think I'm somehow reaching into their pockets at the time, even though they don't actually have any pockets.

Some places have had such management turnovers that the current managers have little experience and view anyone not playing a slot machine as the enemy.

Do I believe in Dice Influencing...No.
Do I believe in patronizing a Sweat The Money joint...No.
Sweat the Money joints are worse. I know they exist! I've definitely experienced them. Too many times for comfort.
I only think I may have experienced a few DI type guys who tossed in a weird manner and sure kept hitting those tens and twelves.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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February 19th, 2013 at 5:57:25 AM permalink
It was a fun trip for sure.

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