Show tomorrow night at 7:30pm

Quote: iluvdisco33

Is this Ahigh guy a joke? First he he believes in dice setting fantasy, then he publicly makes himself look foolish in front of people having ten times his gambling IQ! And now to top it off, he explains about his pathetic income & gambling habit lifestyle while trying to elicit tears of sorrow. So sad.

Nope. I'm not a joke. I'm a real person. And your words are clearly insulting, and I take personal offense to them.

Would you like to meet in person some time?

I'm pretty sure I can demonstrate how real I am and how I am not a joke.

Where would you like to meet?

I don't think much of you since I don't know anything at all about you, but maybe if we met in real life, it would help me understand where you are coming from.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of pent up anger. Maybe I could help you somehow with your problems....

LOL....

Yeah, let me HELP you.

Do you live in Las Vegas? I sure hope so because I am just really eager to meet up and show you how much I am NOT a joke.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Ummm... they took the dice away from me at NYNY and I was pretty much asked to leave twice at Bellagio

Some casinos don't tolerate anything that involves luck.
I was asked to leave a casino cause I won $400 at
BJ in 15min and I wasn't even counting, in Vegas.
Another time a lady pit bull hassled me so much about
getting a players card at NYNY just because I won $300
at BJ, I left. No counting involved. Some casinos are
spooked by everything.

Quote: iluvdisco33

Is this Ahigh guy a joke? First he he believes in dice setting fantasy,

No, but you're turning into one. Rhetoric like
this is uncalled for. Weren't you already suspended
once? Why keep pushing the envelope?

Let me try to take some of the emotion out of this discussion.

First, anyone who ever played craps has always hoped that the dice would go "their way" and therefore hopes that somehow they can make the dice go "their way."

In effect, we all hope that there is such a thing as dice influencing and dice control.

I also hope for dice influencing and dice control.

I think the theory behind dice influencing and dice control makes sense -- that if you can throw the dice a certain way and make them roll and bounce a certain way that you can put some influence or some measure of control on the dice.

But -- and this is the bottom line -- while I have seen some shooters perform what could be viewed as dice influencing or dice control, no shooter has ever performed this enough times to make me believe that they have an actual skill that will perform the desired results on demand and with consistency. Unless a "skill" can be repeated with a certain amount of consistency, it isn't a skill at all.

That doesn't mean I still don't hope that somewhere, someone will be able to master the skill and I truly hope that I am at the table when the performance is made.

If Ahigh wants to examine the possibility of dice control and dice influencing and what is needed to attain it, there is no harm done. If he finds a way to do it, I hope he will let me know when he's shooting.

Quote: AlanMendelson

If Ahigh wants to examine the possibility of dice control and dice influencing and what is needed to attain it, there is no harm done.

Thats how Urban Legends are sustained. If people
stopped searching for BigFoot, he would disappear.

Quote: Ahigh

Things got off to a bad start, but my 2200 or so rolls is still showing a profit for the strategy that I chose to look at for those rolls (pass line or come bet made on every roll, odds off on the comeout).
If I get to a point where I have ten thousand rolls and my percentage of sevens says 16.67, I may just hang up the whole thing. Last night was a horrible performance, and all I can do right now is hope that I can do better on future performances to make up for it.

You have shown 2,352 rolls and 365 7s
15.5187075%
10.9815692% is the chance a random roller would have ended with 365 or less 7s
That is about 11 out of 100

You are 7,648 shy of 10k rolls.
1302 more 7s needed to hit that 1/6 average exactly
20.4850763% is the chance a random roller could do it or better.

But, as you said, a profit after that many rolls is more important than just being over/under 1 in 6
Many show a profit from "Luck only" every day

Continued Good Luck

Quote: EvenBob

Thats how Urban Legends are sustained. If people
stopped searching for BigFoot, he would disappear.

Does it hurt that people believe in BigFoot?

Quote: 7craps

You have shown 2,352 rolls and 365 7s
15.5187075%
10.9815692% is the chance a random roller would have ended with 365 or less 7s
That is about 11 out of 100

You are 7,648 shy of 10k rolls.
1302 more 7s needed to hit that 1/6 average exactly
20.4850763% is the chance a random roller could do it or better.

But, as you said, a profit after that many rolls is more important than just being over/under 1 in 6
Many show a profit from "Luck only" every day

Continued Good Luck

Hey thanks for the support. I appreciate all your analysis and input.

Nice to have someone say something positive.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Does it hurt that people believe in BigFoot?

You got me there, Alan. Tinfoil hats available in the lobby..

Quote: EvenBob

Of course its the same thing. Neither can be proven, yet both have rabid adherents on both issues.

Well, by the same reasoning, neither can be disproven.

Quote: EvenBob

Both involve extraordinary control of a physical object or objects.

Of course, the capability to yield dramatically influenced runs would be extremely rare in both dice shooting and roulette dealing.

However, it doesn't require dramatic runs to overcome a tiny house edge. Only a very minute influence is needed -- say, only one roll in 80 that is not a losing number. That's all one has to do.

So, the influence needn't be too extraordinary to merely grind out a miniscule edge.

Quote: EvenBob

Both have extensive hearsay evidence. Neither has ever been shown in a real, sanctioned demonstration
to be true.

No. Please stop declaring such falsehoods.

I have posted links many times in this forum to two notable dice influencing trials, both of which went in favor of the shooters. Both were sanctioned by Wizard. In one of the trials, the shooters more than doubled the agreed upon winning margin.

These two trials are the only ones of which I am aware. As far as I know, the current score is:
Dice Influencing Believers -- 2
Dice Influencing Deniers -- 0

Quote: EvenBob

Dice setting has been shown over and over not to work long term. As I'm sure you know.

I don't know that.

Please provide links/evidence to support your assertion.

Quote: iluvdisco33

Is this Ahigh guy a joke? First he he believes in dice setting fantasy, then he publicly makes himself look foolish in front of people having ten times his gambling IQ! And now to top it off, he explains about his pathetic income & gambling habit lifestyle while trying to elicit tears of sorrow. So sad.

I see that you decided not to puruse the Forum Rules on personal insults and the Statler and Waldorf standard in light of your suspension just a week-and-a-half ago.

The standard is such that a jab be, "Humorous and gentle," while some people (not me) may or may not find this humorous, using words such as, 'pathetic,' is not something that I would believe qualifies as gentle.

If you choose to return, see you in seven days. If you choose not to return, I doubt if you will be missed.

Quote: EvenBob

I'm afraid were all just having fun with you.

Yeah. It's really a lot of fun for the rest of us.

Quote: EvenBob

We'll all be extremely surprised if you can do this and make money. Surprised won't even cover it.

I wouldn't be surprised.

Additionally, I don't recall Ahigh ever saying that he would absolutely make money at craps.

What is extraordinarily surprising is that someone who so unabashedly professes that he hasn't held dice since he was a kid playing board games could speak with such authority on a subject which particularly involves methods of holding and (more importantly) throwing dice.

Seems like we have a lot of armchair experts on this forum who are merely "parroting opinions of others."

Quote: EvenBob

You seem like a smart enough guy, but you're putting the proverbial horse in front of the cart, which makes you an open target for those of us who've thru this with others on forums for years.

Really?

You've been on other forums in which one of the posters is employed in gaming development, who also performed and shared extensive dice control research, who wrote advanced logging and plotting software, who has recorded numerous videos of rolls with complex camera setups and slow-motion footage, and who fabricated a dice throwing device from scratch?

Wow! Those of you "who've [been] thru this with others" must have read a lot of incredible posts!

Please link the posts of the "others" who have reported similar work on the forums of which you speak.

If we could just get bob to guarantee it won't happen... Wait never mind

Quote: tupp

Yeah. It's really a lot of fun for the rest of us.
.

See Ahigh? You're surrounded by believers, no
need to be down about anything. The trick is,
only post on lists of fellow travelers, like Christians
only post on Christian lists, and BigFoot believers
only post on their forums. That way you preach
to the choir and feel real good every day.

You think I'm joking and I'm not.

Bob, his belief in dice setting is his crutch.

Or, as he might say, his DESIRE to believe in dice setting is his crutch.

His faith is not affected by empirical evidence and cogent argument; it is hardened and annealed by the flames of gain-sayers.

The man WANTS to believe.

He NEEDS to believe.

Were he to suddenly DISBELIEVE, I suspect that his world view would crumble.

Sure, he tries to pass off his obsession as whimsical fascination, but it appears to go much, much deeper.

Just as a junky needs his shot of heroin to find the strength to carry on ...

Quote: MrV

Bob, his belief in dice setting is his crutch.

Or, as he might say, his DESIRE to believe in dice setting is his crutch.

His faith is not affected by empirical evidence and cogent argument; it is hardened and annealed by the flames of gain-sayers.

The man WANTS to believe.

He NEEDS to believe.

Were he to suddenly DISBELIEVE, I suspect that his world view would crumble.

Sure, he tries to pass off his obsession as whimsical fascination, but it appears to go much, much deeper.

Just as a junky needs his shot of heroin to find the strength to carry on ...

You want to talk about random? How about these random assertions from the spectators?

Here's how I would categorize the comments from MrV: patently derogatory, effectively slanderous, broadly misinformed, disingenuous, uninformed, and emotional.

Quote: EvenBob

See Ahigh? You're surrounded by believers, no
need to be down about anything. The trick is,
only post on lists of fellow travelers, like Christians
only post on Christian lists, and BigFoot believers
only post on their forums. That way you preach
to the choir and feel real good every day.

You think I'm joking and I'm not.

No, I don't think you're joking. There are absolutely some people, most not on this forum, that go far beyond believers. I'm not making it a goal to be believed or not, and that's something that has absolutely been accomplished by others selling books and classes.

I think if you looked at the contrast of what I'm doing and what previous people have done before me that you would see that I have the resources and intelligence to accomplish the task assuming that it is possible to accomplish and that I am taking on more than anyone that has attempted to take on this task before.

If there was someone who looked at this question more diligently before me, please let me know who that person is or was.

The big gap between an analysis of someone like yourself and what I'm doing is that you want an answer right now, and I realize that this is a very long marathon that likely has no payoff at the end. And I am happy with that. I am doing this for the journey, not just chasing rainbows hoping for the gold at the end.

If there is no gold and it's not possible, I've still enjoyed a journey that has already gone on longer for me than I think most people would be willing to endure. The scenery I am enjoying right now I believe includes things that nobody before me has seen, and that keeps things interesting.

The scenery even includes uninformed comments from people such as yourself, and that's a new part of what I am dealing with. The only reason I think I'm getting the attention of people like you and others who are not into the game of craps is actually a result of my progress and not a lack of results.

I know there are plenty of people who don't even believe in gambling at all who would think far worse things about my findings, especially if it led to an increase in popularity of the game of craps and/or an increase in the gaming revenue overall for the game of craps from OTHER people who hope to profit and fail.

If it's not clear now, let me make it clear: I agree with Wong on many things! One of those things is that if you want to get serious about being an advantage play player at the casinos, craps is probably the worst direction that you could go! If it is possible, and there is currently no proof that it is possible, it is absolutely harder than any other advantage play that is well known and illustrated by math folks. If it is possible, you need to be quite the hybrid of a professional gambler with skills in many areas, and you also need to be comfortable that dumb lucky shooters are routinely going to outperform you!

Quote: tupp

What is extraordinarily surprising is that someone who so unabashedly professes that he hasn't held dice since he was a kid playing board games could speak with such authority on a subject which particularly involves methods of holding and (more importantly) throwing dice.

Seems like we have a lot of armchair experts on this forum who are merely "parroting opinions of others."

GOLD!!!

I just bought one of these and I should be able to use it by the February 12th broadcast.



http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemtelevisionstudio/

For my short term needs, this is just an expensive HDMI switchbox that doesn't have lag when I want to switch.

For what it's worth, it seems like Ahigh is bouncing back and forth on dice control, and there are people on this web site (including myself) who have some pretty strong opinions on the subject.

Many people have tried dice control, gone to the Scoblete schools, and found that they don't work. Indeed, I would suspect that if the Scoblete classes were successful in teaching dice control, we would have many more contributors tellings us that it worked, and not just in Scoblete's forums. And I think casinos would adjust to the controllers by not allowing setting or just plain backing people off.

I give it about a 10% probability that someone could be profitable over 10,000 rolls at Craps and still be a random roller -- I'll have to check my numbers on that. That means that if you have gone to Scoblete's schools and started throwing believing that you had the skill, you'd have about a 10% chance of being right.

Thinking that you have control over your dice of course strokes one's ego. Going to a casino and validating your hard work and stuff through a profitable session feels great, because you believe that you have one over everyone else and that you're playing with an advantage. You dream of quitting your day job and becoming a professional gambler, living the life of luxury, being pampered by the executives at CET and MGM, of moving from red to green to black to purple action... not having to cook, not having to do housework, hiring the best escorts and stuff. Back to reality.

There's only one game where you can do that, and that's blackjack, because it's been proven so. Even still, casinos have gone to great lengths to limit their losses to these folks, and you see how casinos try to combat against the advantage player. It's very well documented.

There are people on this forum who believe that roulette can be beaten whether it's through biased wheels, betting systems, predicting the dealer's throws, etc. Personally, I think that's bull and I think craps (with or without dice influence) is a far more beatable game because the HE is much, much lower.

Now, with dice influence, if your video is showing your dice bouncing around, I can't see how your roll can be anything but random, in which case you're having fun.

But you're doing more than that. You're building a robotic arm to show that dice influencing might be possible. You're tracking your rolls. You claim that when you're more comfortable, you bet more. What does all of that mean? To me and a number of other people on the forum, it means that you are trying to determine with dice control is possible or not.

When some members try to push you on that, your response is that you are trying to have fun and that there is no proof. That's because there are plenty of members (with or without craps experience) who are trying to tell you that it ain't possible through their experiences or that the roll that you are doing can't exhibit properties of dice control because the bouncing and landing zones make a controlled throw impossible.

When you flip flop between having fun and trying to influence the dice and make statements that you bet more when you're feeling more comfortable begs for comment. Actually, anything you (or anyone else) says on this forum begs a response. Hence the meaning of the word "forum".

Quote: boymimbo

When you flip flop between having fun and trying to influence the dice and make statements that you bet more when you're feeling more comfortable begs for comment. Actually, anything you (or anyone else) says on this forum begs a response. Hence the meaning of the word "forum".

I gamble too! The thing is that I feel like I have been successful at grinding with very small bet amounts. What I have not been successful is grinding at larger amounts.

I have not really been successful getting just plain dumb luck with larger bets either! And I have made plenty of huge bets just on other people's random tosses.

Except for yesterday, I've gone ALMOST the entire year without betting on other people AT ALL. And I did a grind from $50 to $1000 three times depositing my money and starting over! When I would get to $300 to $400, I would make some big gambles, but on my own throws.

Yesterday, I changed gears to green chips. I was making $25 line bets with $250 odds on RANDOM SHOOTERS, and I lost $680. If I had won I wouldn't have considered that a victory for my shot, and since I lost I don't consider it to affect my opinion on influencing the dice.

But here the point: my money situation, including money that I win and lose when I go to the craps table, is pretty independent of my research towards a biased throw.

Now I know a lot of other people would be motivated by the idea that they could increase their bets on a biased throw and just grind on larger amounts of money instead of randomly making oversized bets on Joe Schmoe at the Silverton Casiono.

But I was having fun betting huge bets on shooters without even glancing at them.

I find that if I bet amounts that make no difference to my well being other than to prove that I can do it in public, I have more success attaining a reasonable profit without much volatility. Something that to me could be explained by the theory of a biased throw.

And let me state this too: I don't have money problems. Today I paid my mortgage payment 6 weeks early and I bought a $1000 toy for my little broadcast show that everybody thinks is so stupid.

My credit card bill is paid off in full. I have absolutely no debt other than my house, and my savings and 401k and IRAs and all that are well beyond what I owe on my house. IE: I have a net worth of more than what my house is worth.

The amount of money that I bet to demonstrate the possibility of an edge to myself in the casino is meaningless to me financially.

It is this way because to me it's more of a game than it is about financial success.

When I increase the bet to the point that the money would make a difference to me, I get an adrenaline rush, and my hands shake, and I don't perform well. When I do it when someone else is shooting, I still get that feeling, but there is no consequence to it.

I also randomly toss the dice with oversized bets because I am not currently betting that way on a grind, it doesn't matter what the edge is if I bet green chips for a day or less.

And I still ground up $600 in the previous three days with no more than $50 of exposure at any point in time.

In a nutshell, and ASK AROUND .. but when I bet, I am ALL OVER THE FREAKING PLACE. Especially when I bet on other shooters. I am gambling!

When I bet to try to exploit a theoretical edge, I want an empty table and I want to get the dice as soon as I seven out, and I want the dealers to work with me. So I tip frequently and try to have everything go my way and have fun grinding the edge that I think I might have.

If you TRULY want an insight to what I do in a casino, PM me and we can meet and I can show you. But it will be limited to certain times at certain casinos and when nobody else is around.

Most of the time, I'm just having fun at the tables.

I hope this helps!

Its the bounce, that wascally wascally bounce... Velcro, maybe?

I'm not sure why you mention money all the time. I now
know more about your financial situation than I do about
my own wifes. She never tells me anything.

If its not about money, then beating craps has to be about
your ego. Thats why you get so hurt and offended if you're
doubted or made fun of. You'd be far better off if it was
about money. That way, when you find out dice setting
is a sham, you won't take it so personally.

Aaron ... all your explaining and rationalizations notwithstanding, your TV show reveals that when the dice land on your craps table they bounce randomly.

You've demonstrated that, thus far, you've no more control over the dice than the random rollers you eschew.

Is dice influencing possible?

You bet: if (and ONLY if) the toss is PERFECT, and very "non-energetic", such that the dice land softly near the wall then roll and kiss the wall and come to a stop, i.e. a "dead cat bounce."

At least that makes sense to me; nothing else computes when the inherent loss of control which hitting the back wall is factored into the equation.

As has been said before, this is a public internet forum: when you bring up a hot topic, be prepared to take some heat.

Quote: MrV

Aaron ... all your explaining and rationalizations notwithstanding, your TV show reveals that when the dice land on your craps table they bounce randomly.

The wascally bounce is what prevents the ball in roulette
from being thrown accurately. Its never the same twice in
a row. To be accurate, all conditions have to be exactly
the same on every spin and thats impossible.

Quote: EvenBob

The wascally bounce is what prevents the ball in roulette
from being thrown accurately. Its never the same twice in
a row. To be accurate, all conditions have to be exactly
the same on every spin and thats impossible.

Are you speaking from experience, or is this just further "parroting?"

Well not impossible, Bob. Highly unlikely, sure. I think that there is a range of initial parameters that will result in the dice ending up with the same result x > x(exp) percent of the time. The question is that whether one can throw the dice within that range every time and still have a legal throw.

Think of it this way, Bob. If there was a robot launching the roulette ball with the same speed, spin, velocity, etc, from the same spot on the roulette wheel, and the roulette wheel was going at the same speed, the ball would land in the same spot, every time.

With dice, it's the same. If you can throw the dice to the same spot and have a frequency of the same result markedly better than expected, then you can prove that you're influencing the dice. You can test your results with binomial testing to see how your results line up with expected. I think that if you can end up in the 1% percentile after say 5,000 throws you might be able to say you have something. Otherwise, you are just lucky, in my books.

Quote: MrV

Aaron ... all your explaining and rationalizations notwithstanding, your TV show reveals that when the dice land on your craps table they bounce randomly.

I think that some on this forum have tried to explain the difference between "random" and "chaotic." The bouncing doesn't have to look perfectly controlled if one subscribes to the chaos argument.

Quote: MrV

Is dice influencing possible? You bet: if (and ONLY if) the toss is PERFECT, and very "non-energetic", such that the dice land softly near the wall then roll and kiss the wall and come to a stop, i.e. a "dead cat bounce." At least that makes sense to me; nothing else computes when the inherent loss of control which hitting the back wall is factored into the equation.

It is good to hear that at least you think dice influencing is a possibility.

However, dice influencing can be more a matter of degree rather than "a matter of absolute perfection in every toss." Keep in mind, to overcome the house edge, the shooter merely needs to ensure that only one out of (say) 80 rolls is a non-loss result.

I would guess that skilled shooters can achieve the perfect roll you describe more often than once every 80 throws.

Furthermore, there is a lot of debate about what constitutes a "perfect" roll. For instance, some try to get the dice to land in the "wedge" (between the felt and wall) and come to a quick stop (or short bounce). There are several other common techniques.

As I understand it, the chaos method differs from most of the conventional techniques in that it is much more of a "matter-of-degree," statistical type of play. The rolls are going to look less perfect, although one might be able to see rough trends in number of turns and bounce direction.

OK, here's a new angle to look at on the issue of dice setting: and lo and behold, I propound it as a method which *might* actually work, I don't know.

In order for dice setting to actually work, many things need to be "just so;" as I understand it, it would be great to figure out how to keep the dice rotating together the same way as they fly through the air, so that they land the same way, relatively speaking, as "mirrors" one to one another.

How to accomplish this?

Perhaps all it takes is some water.

I have noticed that two objects, both wet, often "cling" to one another when pressed together, e.g. wet coins when pressed together seem to develop some form of attraction, a surface tension if you will.

So, would two dice, if their matching surfaces are wet, also cling together while wafting through the air?

It might be worth looking into.

To avoid detection and to fly under the radar, the shooter would have a full glass of water at hand, and immediately before grabbing the dice for a toss, he'd take a sip and as he's putting the cup down on the rail's edge, he'd dip a couple of "throwing fingers" lightly into the water.

Then, quickly, he'd arrange the dice and while doing so make certain that the two chosen surfaces that face each other are dampened.

Squeeze em and toss.

Best of all, the water should quickly evaporate and be undetectable.

Alas, I suspect the casinos would take a dim view of this: hello, felony!

But conceptually, it *might* work ...

Well I made a special point to go and visit the Wynn this morning. I didn't spend much time there or make much money (+$30). But I got a critique of my shot I was using there. They basically said they wouldn't let me keep shooting. I fired off one last shot for a profit and scooted right as they were letting me know they weren't going to let me shoot any more because I had so many rolls where one of the two dice came up short.

I wasn't trying to make much money and told them from the get-go I was just there to have fun. But they weren't going to let me shoot the way that I shoot there after telling them I wanted to get the full-on critique of my shot if it were legal or not.

But I am going to keep going to the Wynn and see about shooting and getting some feedback about whether or not they will allow my shot to be made while big money is betting on my roll. I will have to work hard to always hit the back wall with both dice. I've gotten into a habit of only hitting the back wall with one die many times, and they don't really tolerate that there.

They are already not really excited about me being there just this morning from what I gathered after telling them my plans to come in to see if I can get the table to dump with a legal throw or not while I have a minimum bet on the passline.

Ideally I am thinking $100 passline bet and no other bets and just try to get the table dumping to the whales until they have the little talk with me. But right off the bat, they don't like my toss coming up short even twice is enough for them to take the dice away, especially on a high limit table. So I will work on my toss on their tables to get it legal for a while.

Why didn't you simply keep your mouth shut, roll dem bones the way you want, and then see if they comment / react negatively?

Their silence would let you know if your throw is acceptable; if they object, you'd know immediately.

Now you are *known* to them, as a wannabe AP, which cannot be a good thing.

True AP's (BJ players) take precautions to AVOID being detected or marked as such, and here you announce the fact!?

It seems a very, very foolish move to give up your cover that way, Aaron, but hey, it's all for sh*ts and giggles, right?

I don't want to go over the same topics over and over, but about random bouncing, let me just take the position that I don't think anyone talking about how "random" the bouncing is has the qualifications to say that the bouncing is random. I can agree that the outcomes are described by the term random. But the bouncing that is occurring is clearly NOT random. It is chaotic.

This topic comes up so frequently, I think it might be time to make a frequently asked question sort of blog or something to explain this.

Nicolay is one of the few guys that understands some of this stuff to a degree beyond the normal because he is an animator.

I've done lots of physics and animation programming for video games and that gives me some insight to how cubes bounce.

But let me just squelch the whole "bouncing all over hell" and other comments with good intentions about how the process is considered to be random.

Strictly speaking, it is absolutely not random. The end. It is chaotic.

If you see a shot with bouncing that goes "all over the place" in your mind, it does not remove the possibility that there is another shot that bounces consistently enough to create an edge over the course of thousands of rolls.

I will agree that MOST of the rolls that occur will fall within the domain of what would be described as random outcomes.

But the goal is to have that domain escape the domain of what could possibly be considered reasonably "random luck" and instead must be some form of influence.

Quote: MrV

So, would two dice, if their matching surfaces are wet, also cling together while wafting through the air? It might be worth looking into.

I don't think that such a practice is legal.

Yeah, I agree. Half of what makes this fun is the idea of following the rules and still being able to get an edge.

But I definitely do not want to go to jail. And my reputation is worth a whole lot more than anything else.

When I was at the Wynn this morning, I had a $2 hard six and a $12 six. I rolled the six easy, and the stick man failed to take down the hard six.

I said out loud, "six came easy, so the hard six it down."

He then said, "yeah, I was trying to get you a free bet."

I then proceeded to roll a hard six. And he looked at me. I said, "no worries, I play the game for fun. And my reputation is worth more than $20."

Then I rolled another hard six (back-to-back hard sixes) right after that and said, "make that $200."

LOL.

They were amused. But it's the same type of thing. I absolutely don't care about cheating, and my reputation is worth WAY more.

My final winning roll was a hard six. I rolled a total of 5 hard sixes in approximately 30 rolls (or fewer). The final roll was a $5 hard six and a $30 six both working the comeout.

I laid the six and rolled it for a push on three or four random rolls, and scooted away.

Quote: Ahigh

Today I paid my mortgage payment 6 weeks early

just a comment, if you pay that early it probably went to the principal and your next payment is still due at the same time. Some people make the mistake of thinking they can pay way ahead like that, and then begin to skip payments. You generally can't do it that way and you can hurt your credit trying. Sorry for the aside, but it's one of those things I feel compelled to comment on.

I appreciate your looking out, but I did my due diligence. Next payment won't be late until April 15th, 2013.

" But the goal is to have that domain escape the domain of what could possibly be "

Why do I think this quote came from
Alice In Wonderland ?

Watering dem bones certainly would seem to be a violation of NRS 465.085, the "cheating" statute.

But still ... would it work?

If so, perhaps some "bright minds, not filled with mush" could figure out a method to exploit it anyway.

Hypothetically, assume it works well enough to provide a true advantage; heck, maybe it works well enough to "call your shot."

So long as the shooter is very polished in his craft, and the wetting of the fingers seems accidental and incidental, and the Eye cannot see it (in the rail; position a blocker), then there is "plausible deniablility," i.e. if noticed just say "WTF are you talking about?"

Probably it would be best to employ the cheat only very rarely, and when used, have a confederate make the monster bet.

It seems to me that any method which provides true AP at craps should be scrutinized and pondered, especially if there is "plausible deniability."

Speaking of which, any updates on the Wynn dice sliders?

Quote: MrV

Watering dem bones certainly would seem to be a violation of NRS 465.085, the "cheating" statute.

But still ... would it work?

I've considered discreetly wetting my thumb. I wouldnt want to lick it, too nasty. But a wet hanky in the pocket maybe? A bit of lime juice in the water?

Whoever has the guts report back [g]

deleted

Several years ago when I talked to the enforcement division of the NGC they made it clear that any substance applied to the dice is unlawful and that includes water to make them stick together. It also includes lipstick should you have your girl kiss the dice for you -- and that has been done. It also includes having some sticky substance on your fingers as your set the dice.

Ahigh anytime both dice fail to hit the back wall you can be no-rolled. There is nothing to test. If you are getting away with not hitting the back wall, keep your mouth shut about it. Do it too many times and they'll never let you shoot again.

And Ahigh if you really think you can be the one and only true dice controller (except for the other real dice controllers who don't talk about it and don't sell courses or books and don't have their own Internet channel or website) go ahead and bust the casinos. When we read about your fourth six hour hand in four days we'll know you really mastered the craft.

We all believe its possible. We're just waiting to see it.

I had a nice roll at Red Rock for lunch. Tiny stakes and $30 profit. Got a comp'd buffet and out of there. Only played for 7 minutes or so.

I never rolled a single seven, and passed the dice when I was done. Made just two points -- the 6 and the 4. But rolled about 15 times with no sevens.

No odds on any bets, and $5 minimums. I rarely go to Red Rock, especially at lunch but it worked out alright. Only looking to win lunch money.

Definitely the grind strategy (super low bets and won every single bet I made) and out.

Quote: Ahigh

Definitely the grind strategy (super low bets and won every single bet I made) and out.

"Grinding" a negative edge. Interesting concept.

I can't wait for your next venture, the retail store where you sell everything at a loss but make up for it on volume.

This is from a member called 7Winner thats no longer
with us. This is an interesting thread that SooPoo
started in 2010 about dice setting being a hoax. Read all
of 7Winner's posts, he knows his stuff.

"You have convinced yourself wrongly that you have a "skill". At a Craps table in a casino you have to follow their rules. Dice hit table and back wall. A chimp throwing the dice (hitting the table and the back wall....those are casino rules) would still show the same results that you can have setting the dice...You do not understand random fluctuation at all. Sad."

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/3285-dice-influence-challenge/

I wanted to comment on the water talk...It's true, I have been doing it for years... at home of course! And yes even the condensation from your drink is enough to cause the dice to stick together while in flight. It's a fun trick, I can stick two dice together and toss them up and have them flip over and over before catching them both. But it's all for show...

But let's say you didn't want to use an illegal substance in casino play... You can easily achieve the same affect by using a tong grip but have the two dice aligned to the length of the table not the width. That way the back dice on release pushes the front dice forward, this is a great way to lock the dice together up until the bounce of course... I encourage those who have dice to try it. :)

"I taught Dealers school in Reno in the late 90s and had a lot of time to practice my dice setting skills with others.
Then a student got me hooked on the math of gambling...especially Craps.
Before that, I KNEW I rolled more fields than any one else and could hit 4s and 10s as points way better than any one else.
I would have bet the farm that I could prove it.

But after being shown how to track my rolls, do the math....
I was just like every one else.
I was random. Some days more RANDOM than others.
"Damn It" I remember saying.
"I roll MORE 4s and 10s than anyone!"

But I was just random as we all are.
It would be nice to "not be random" but
we are all just random."

7craps https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/3285-dice-influence-challenge/3/

Here is a physics simulated example of my post above... Obviously this is a much shorter distance than the throw at a craps table but I just wanted to visualize how the dice released from the pincer grip aligned to the length of the table.

White dots = trajectory
Yellow Info above each dice = Euler angles

Edit:
--Removed Animated Diagram. Will keep this private for now.

Quote: tupp

I have posted links many times in this forum to two notable dice influencing trials, both of which went in favor of the shooters. Both were sanctioned by Wizard. In one of the trials, the shooters more than doubled the agreed upon winning margin.

These two trials are the only ones of which I am aware. As far as I know, the current score is:
Dice Influencing Believers -- 2
Dice Influencing Deniers -- 0

tupp, are both of the events to which you are referring mentioned on this page? If so, while you are technically correct, I believe you are being disingenuous, whether purposefully or not.

The "Beau Parker experiment" had a grand total of 116 rolls. Total rubbish in terms of any kind of conclusion. Good for them - they beat the expected number of 7s by less than one roll!

The Wong challenge is much more interesting, for sure, but still consisted of only 500 rolls. A great challenge, and kudos to Wong and Little Joe for hitting the under - but a random roller could have done it 14% of the time - more often than 1 in 10. These challenges don't "prove" anything. I wish we had a more recent one!

Quote: AcesAndEights

I wish we had a more recent one!

We will have one with 200 rolls on March 11th. I know its not many. But hopefully soon after this will get the ball rolling for more trails.

Quote: sodawater

"Grinding" a negative edge. Interesting concept.

I can't wait for your next venture, the retail store where you sell everything at a loss but make up for it on volume.

From the definition:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grind

4. Informal: A laborious task, routine, or study

Normally when one wins $30 in 7 minutes it's not the result of winning 6 $5 bets, but either a single bet, or winning 5 $30 bets and losing 4 $30 bets.

I apologize for not being more succinct.

Also, here passline with no odds and no other bets for my recorded rolls.



It generally stays within a +/- $100 range with upswings of at most $90 in a short period.

IE: If I win $60 that quick, that's good.