Show tomorrow night at 7:30pm
Quote: sodawaterI would have to agree, that if Ahigh's intention was to troll this forum, he is doing an amazing job at it.
I am not sure what I am rooting for. I can't decide if his posts are sadder if he is intentionally trolling or not.
I have met Aaron. he is passionate about the game of craps. He is not trolling. I think he just must learn to ignore the naysayers that in his opinion 'cross the line' into personal attacks. I like to think I am his biggest 'disbeliever', but I get along with him. As always, some internet jabber can be overblown. I can't tell you how many times I have been disparaged by members here (see HB challenge thread), but always try not to respond in kind, rather, just move on. It can be difficult at times...
If the craps challenge actually takes place due to Aaron's hospitality, then I would say he would be amongst the most valuable members this forum has ever had.
(No one can top pacomartin.....)
like Stanford Wong, have been fooled by dice setting
and have now seen the light. Its folly..
Quote: EvenBobPeople who are well known in the gambling world,
like Stanford Wong, have been fooled by dice setting
and have now seen the light. Its folly..
I still find it amazing that Stanford Wong fell for that nonsense in the first place.
What the hell was he thinking???
What I fail to recall what anything (link anyone) where Wong himself explains anything about withdrawing anything.
Who has the link where Wong explains how he had, "seen the light," as it is described above.
For all ye who point at lack of data, I think there's plenty of creativity coming my way when it comes to evidence that it's not possible.
If all he did was clean up his website, and imaginations ran wild, I would not be surprised.
But I don't doubt that he has some multi-page summary of how stupid he was to believe such nonsense.
I just don't know what that darned page is!
Quote: MakingBookI still find it amazing that Stanford Wong fell for that nonsense in the first place.
What the hell was he thinking???
He wrote a book about it and made a bunch of
money. He now says its hooey. Did he give the
money back?
Where is that? His statement, for example, where he uses the word "hooey?"
I'm sure you're right and not just making it up that he issued a public statement rather than just taking something off his website without saying anything.
I just am not connected with Stanford Wong's diligent research on the topic of concluding that it is "Hooey" as you say.
Just one more time, my question.
Where?
you have devoted your life to "dice control," yet you have not familiarized yourself with the wholehearted embrace and subsequent dismissal of the subject by the gambling world's foremost authority on advantage play? wouldn't this be of interest to you?
Quote: sodawaterso let me get this straight, ahigh...
you have devoted your life to "dice control," yet you have not familiarized yourself with the wholehearted embrace and subsequent dismissal of the subject by the gambling world's foremost authority on advantage play? wouldn't this be of interest to you?
I'm listening now to the show where he was expected to give his perspective on dismissing the possibility.
http://www.bobdancer.com/mp3/gwae102711.mp3?CFID=85764239&CFTOKEN=26900851
Thanks for being so helpful! I was only asking a question.
I haven't devoted my life to it, and I've only been posting on this forum for a couple of months.
I am not a follower of anyone else's perspectives on dice control.
I am absolutely not familiar with Wong, Beau, Scoblete, or any other person when it comes to the topic.
I'm doing my own work.
It sounds like 16 minutes in is where he starts to talk about it.
Quote: Ahigh
I'm doing my own work.
I guess you're the Srinivasa Ramanujan of dice control -- completely disconnected from the scientific community, completely unfamiliar with the existing body of work. If you play your cards right, maybe a kindly Cambridge professor will discover you and take you under his wing.
Quote: Ahigh
I haven't devoted my life to it, and I've only been posting on this forum for a couple of months.
I am not a follower of anyone else's perspectives on dice control.
I'm sensing a Wong-like dismissal of the subject
coming. Wait for it. Wait for it....
Quote: EvenBobI'm sensing a Wong-like dismissal of the subject
coming. Wait for it. Wait for it....
Not really, I'm still searching for Wong's dismissal, and I haven't heard it yet.
Anyone else know where Wong says it's not possible.
"I was ahead for the first two or three years. I decided to increasing my bet sizes. I bet more when other people were throwing the dice. I don't know if I'm a winner on my own tosses or not, but it was when I went up in scale, and that's when I lost, and I haven't got that back yet."
"I would say it's possible, but I would say it's very difficult."
Interesting.
I think maybe some people just have guesses in their mind what Wong's position is.
Whatever, dudes. I think you guys are just uninformed.
I agree that it's difficult!!!
And you guys criticize me. It sounded like you guys were all certain that Wong had recanted his position on whether an edge is possible.
All I hear is that it's really hard.
"If you want to get serious about making money at casinos, <get into other things>."
I agree with that. Craps is hard.
But impossible, nope. I just hear him say generally, "that is hard!!!"
So what?!
I absolutely agree with what Wong is saying. But he's not "blowing me away" with evidence that it's impossible. Just saying stuff I already knew.
uhm, yeah, guys. Great diligent work.
My show is back on.
7:30pm Pacific Time
8:30pm Mountain Time
9:30pm Central Time
10:30pm Eastern Time
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-ahigh-show
Quote: AhighNot really, I'm still searching for Wong's dismissal, and I haven't heard it yet.
From this forum in 2011, an email the Wiz got
from a contributor to Wong's book:
Well, yes, some of what Wong said is open to interpretation, but I think
he went about as far as he could without bluntly stating,
"Unfortunately, I now know based on recent research that the whole
thing is a fantasy, and I regret originally embracing the supposed reality
of AP casino craps without hard evidence."
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/7093-wong-and-dice-control/7/
Quote: AhighNot really, I'm still searching for Wong's dismissal, and I haven't heard it yet.
see Munchkin: http://www.richardmunchkin.com/2011/12/dice-control-not.html
<snip> "in February, 2009, Wong stated in a post on the bj21.com craps page, in referring to the results of slow-motion video studies of skillful throws, "The truth is, there is much bouncing around, even in dice tosses that look great at real-time speed. Watching slo-mo video of dice tosses can be discouraging, and can be harmful to sales of dice books and to sales of dice-tossing instruction."
and then
"in April 2011, in a tacit admission that he had been wrong in believing casino craps could be legitimately beaten, Wong removed craps from the list of “Beatable Casino Games” on his popular BJ21.com website, and also removed the “Craps” discussion page from his site, as well. In addition, a few months later, in October 2011, in an interview on Bob Dancer’s popular KLAV radio program, “Gambling With an Edge,” Wong admitted that for players “who want to get serious about making money in casinos, craps is not the game to play.” That pretty much says it all."
Indeed it does.
I'm 100% undeterred by Wong's opinions on the subject.
There certainly is no proof that it's not possible to get an advantage throw.
He certainly doesn't talk about the use of Monte Carlo simulator.
He talks about practicing bad habits.
I know how to get any kind of bias to make money.
He never even touches on that subject.
I will cover this topic tonight. It might change some perspectives on the game.
Quote: Ahigh
I'm 100% undeterred by Wong's opinions on the subject.
So you totally ignore what myself and V just posted.
Thats what I'd do, just put on the blinders and forge
ahead! You have nothing to lose except time and
your dignity..
Quote: AhighI don't see Wong as a person who has more knowledge on the subject than me.
Level of the year
Quote: Ahigh
My show is back on.
7:30pm.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-ahigh-show
Upon hearing this news, I feel a great sense of unmitigated
Quote: EvenBobSo you totally ignore what myself and V just posted.
Thats what I'd do, just put on the blinders and forge
ahead! You have nothing to lose except time and
your dignity..
I have to agree with Ahigh that Wong never publicly stated that he believed dice influencing to gain an advantage is impossible. He did say that if possible, it's very hard. He did say that he didn't know anyone who has profited long term. Bryce Carlson did say that he believed that Wong believed it's not possible, but didn't want to say it. Wong did remove it from his list of beatable games. He did say people shouldn't pursue it for AP opportunities.
But he never said, explicitly, "this isn't possible." So technically Ahigh is right :).
Quote: EvenBobSo you totally ignore what myself and V just posted.
Thats what I'd do, just put on the blinders and forge
ahead! You have nothing to lose except time and
your dignity..
Look, Bob. You are WRONG
First I didn't ignore what was said. I didn't dismiss it.
I am not selling books, so I'm not worried about that. I would _never_ write a book as if a regular joe could develop a craps edge as easily as BJ or VP. That much, at least, I will agree that Wong admitted his mistake: making it sound easier than most people believe that it is to accomplish.
I actually enjoy the game, so no worries there!
I play this game to have fun. And like any game I play for fun, I want to get better.
Here's what I think: I think even though I admit I am not the best shooter in the world, I am way more focused than Wong or any of his followers.
If anything, hearing his position on the subject emboldens me that if you guys consider him the craps God, maybe there is a new Sheriff in town.
I'm definitely doing things that he has never even contemplated, or at least that he doesn't talk about in his show.
I thought this guy was supposed to be more of an authority. He seemed pretty uncertain about some things that I am a little more certain about myself.
Especially as far as how to deal with what he described as "bad habits."
In my way of doing things, there are no bad habits.
All habits are good habits if you can develop any habit that creates a bias, let the computer do the heavy lifting.
Quote: AhighThere certainly is no proof that it's not possible to get an advantage throw.
Just as there is no proof that bigfoot exists.
Hello, McFly?
It is not up to us to prove a negative.
People who claim it is a viable form of AP should be able to prove it, empirically.
They don't, they can't.
Quote: AhighLook, Bob. You are WRONG
.
About what? I don't care about dice setting, its for
people who need lessons to learn. I already learned
all of mine. Forge ahead!
Quote: MrV
It is not up to us to prove a negative.
People who claim it is a viable form of AP should be able to prove it, empirically.
.
The falls under my 'never wise up a chump' category.
Its a waste of time and makes the chump irritable.
Why bother..
Quote: EvenBobThe falls under my 'never wise up a chump' category.
Its a waste of time and makes the chump irritable.
Why bother..
I'm not 100% sure, but maybe someone can verify that you've called me a chump?
You were wrong, and you can't admit that you were wrong, so you resorted to name calling.
Nice.
Quote: AhighI'm not 100% sure, but maybe someone can verify that you've called me a chump?
if someone verifies this, are you going to take your ball and go home?
I would like to believe in dice influencing and dice controlling. I think it is possible. I have read it all: Sharpshooter's book, Wong's book, the websites from the DI/DC crowd. You will even find my contributions on some of those websites. I've been to the seminars, I've rubbed elbows and even shared tables playing with many of the advocates of DI/DC but I can tell you I am yet to see anyone perform DI or DC to any kind of standard that would let me pronounce that it can be taught or learned except through some God-given ability, and to date I truly can say I have never seen anyone display that God-given ability enough times to convince me their God-given ability surpasses anyone else's God-given ability to get lucky.
This doesn't mean I am closed to the idea that someday, someone, will belly up to a craps table whether in SR-1 or SL-5 and perform true God-given magic with the dice over and over again much like you can expect a major league baseball player to deliver a fast ball in to the strike zone over and over again.
One day it will happen. I only hope I am at the table when it does. I have about 15 years of losses trying DI and DC to recoup.
Quote: AhighI'm not 100% sure, but maybe someone can verify that you've called me a chump?
.
Nope. Look how its worded, chumps is a generality. This isn't
my first hayride, pilgrim. And it was a reply to V's post, how
does that involve you.
Quote: AlanMendelsonTo Ahigh and everyone else:
I would like to believe in dice influencing and dice controlling. I think it is possible. I have read it all: Sharpshooter's book, Wong's book, the websites from the DI/DC crowd. You will even find my contributions on some of those websites. I've been to the seminars, I've rubbed elbows and even shared tables playing with many of the advocates of DI/DC but I can tell you I am yet to see anyone perform DI or DC to any kind of standard that would let me pronounce that it can be taught or learned except through some God-given ability, and to date I truly can say I have never seen anyone display that God-given ability enough times to convince me their God-given ability surpasses anyone else's God-given ability to get lucky.
This doesn't mean I am closed to the idea that someday, someone, will belly up to a craps table whether in SR-1 or SL-5 and perform true God-given magic with the dice over and over again much like you can expect a major league baseball player to deliver a fast ball in to the strike zone over and over again.
One day it will happen. I only hope I am at the table when it does. I have about 15 years of losses trying DI and DC to recoup.
I think a big part of the difficulty is that you have to grind against the edge. Until you get a couple thousand rolls behind your edge, it's meaningless anyway!
And once you start varying your bet amounts, the grind matters less than the strategy of varying your bet amounts.
People, in general, who play craps are often too distracted to stay focused enough to exploit an edge.
You have to put in at least a couple weeks of play at hours a day to feel the effect of the edge. And it will be a tiny fraction of your total bets placed (0.5% to 5%).
It is much more fun to gamble than to grind any edge you can get. Most people are going to gamble.
But I am still focused on proving that the edge is possible. Even if it's not something to worry any casino out there, I'm still focused on it.
Quote: AlanMendelsonTo Ahigh and everyone else:
I would like to believe in dice influencing and dice controlling. I think it is possible.
Dice setting is in the same Urban Legend category
as dealers who can spin the results of a roulette
wheel with accuracy. Neither has ever been proven,
but both have lots of eager followers. Not as many
as Jesus does, but they are equality fervent in their
zealotry..
Quote: AlanMendelsonTo Ahigh and everyone else:I would like to believe in dice influencing and dice controlling. One day it will happen. I only hope I am at the table when it does.
You gotta believe in god...
Quote: Ahigh
But I am still focused on proving that the edge is possible.
Quote: Ahigh<silence>
uhm, yeah, guys. Great diligent work.
My show is back on.
7:30pm.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-ahigh-show
I followed this link but just get a blank screen? Do I have to sign in or something?
Quote: HeadlockI followed this link but just get a blank screen? Do I have to sign in or something?
Patience, patience. The dishwashing hour is nigh, but not yet. (7:30 pm, time zone to be determined.)
Quote: sodawaterPatience, patience. The dishwashing hour is nigh, but not yet. (7:30 pm, time zone to be determined.)
LOL! Stop it, I can't take much more.. Thats my
favorite part too... Will he be nude again?
Quote: HeadlockI followed this link but just get a blank screen? Do I have to sign in or something?
It starts 7:30pm Pacific Time. I know a lot of people were confused in the past that it had already started.
7:30pm Pacific Time
8:30pm Mountain Time
9:30pm Central Time
10:30pm Eastern Time
Quote: teddysThis is a bunch of yahoos sitting around their computers in their underwear ready to make smarmy and stupid comments with the push of a button.
How did you know what I was wearing? Lighten up, everyone!
Quote: sodawaterPatience, patience. The dishwashing hour is nigh, but not yet. (7:30 pm, time zone to be determined.)
Quote: EvenBobLOL! Stop it, I can't take much more.. Thats my
favorite part too... Will he be nude again?
You guys are hilarious! This thread is freaking awesome!
My main plan is to demonstrate the part of my software that determines that, assuming you have a biased throw, what set would have generated the most amount of profits for your throw.
In order for it to work ideally, you have to record the roll with left and die specifically (left die recorded first, then right die).
The thing that prompted me to talk about this feature is Wong's discussion about learning bad habits.
My general approach is to try the series of throws for every different possible way to set the dice and run your strategies telling you which set works best for a strategy or set of strategies.
Quote: EvenBobSo you totally ignore what myself and V just posted.
Thats what I'd do, just put on the blinders and forge
ahead! You have nothing to lose except time and
your dignity..
Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, Mr. Pot.
Quote: AhighIt starts 7:30pm Pacific Time. I know a lot of people were confused in the past that it had already started.
7:30pm Pacific Time
8:30pm Mountain Time
9:30pm Central Time
10:30pm Eastern Time
This will no doubt be a major, worldwide event, followed in cultural centers around the globe.
FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE:
4:30 pm Pago Pago time
5:30 pm Honolulu time
6:30 pm Anchorage time
11:30 pm Santiago time
12:30 am Sao Paulo time
1:30 am Grytviken time
2:30 am Cape Verde time
3:30 am London time
4:30 am Paris time
5:30 am Cairo time
6:30 am Baghdad time
7:30 am Moscow time
8:30 am Karachi time
9:30 am Dhaka time
10:30 am Jakarta time
11:30 am Guangzhou time
12:30 pm Tokyo time
1:30 pm Yakutsk time
2:30 pm Sydney time
3:30 pm Vladivostok time
4:30 pm Aukland time
Quote: sodawaterThis will no doubt be a major, worldwide event, followed in cultural centers around the globe.
FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE:
4:30 pm Pago Pago time
5:30 pm Honolulu time
6:30 pm Anchorage time
11:30 pm Santiago time
12:30 am Sao Paulo time
1:30 am Grytviken time
I'll be watching on Grytviken time, technically.
Quote: AhighI'm prepping for the show, but I'll be monitoring this thread if there's any subjects that anyone wants to touch on.
Please, iron your apron this time. Its makes
washing dishes so much sexier..
Just my 2 cents bu,t who cares what people throw at you in a forum, its just talk. Go ahead and make your show awesome. People will watch just to criticize it, but there watching anyway. Right?
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-ahigh-show
Quote: NeonVacationwho cares what people throw at you in a forum, its just talk.
Wrong. I've made a voodoo doll of Ahigh, with
his picture on it from a grab I got of him. The doll
is even wearing an apron. Just talk, I think
not..
Quote: AhighI think a big part of the difficulty is that you have to grind against the edge. Until you get a couple thousand rolls behind your edge, it's meaningless anyway!
And once you start varying your bet amounts, the grind matters less than the strategy of varying your bet amounts.
People, in general, who play craps are often too distracted to stay focused enough to exploit an edge.
You have to put in at least a couple weeks of play at hours a day to feel the effect of the edge. And it will be a tiny fraction of your total bets placed (0.5% to 5%).
It is much more fun to gamble than to grind any edge you can get. Most people are going to gamble.
But I am still focused on proving that the edge is possible. Even if it's not something to worry any casino out there, I'm still focused on it.
Aaron, since there is no 'edge' for a player in craps, how do you "stay focused to exploit it?"
Aaron, since the 'edge' in a negative expectation game like craps is always against you, how do you "feel the effect of the edge" in any way other than a losing feeling?
Aaron, in a negative exprctation game like craps, what possible way can you expect to win by using "the strategy of varying your bets?"
You yourself have stated that you are not a dice influencer, but just are hoping to prove it is possible.... so when did you EVER play with an edge?
