AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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December 2nd, 2012 at 8:39:24 PM permalink
In another thread, Sancho wrote about craps:

Quote: SanchoPanza

...The skill is learning as much as possible about the realities of the game, including what to look out for and what to avoid. Including the key move a bettor can make--leaving the table....



Sancho you made a very intriguing comment... about leaving the table.

Did you know that there are a group of video poker players who call themselves "advantage players" because they say they have an edge at the game? They say they have an edge from a combination of a "positive paytable" and associated comps such as cash back, free play, etc. And because of this positive edge they say there is no reason to quit playing video poker. In other words, they have the edge on each and every hand or play and it makes no difference when they leave -- and the only reason to leave is that you are tired or have to eat or go to the restroom or shower.... or whatever. Otherwise they reject all ideas about what we craps players have experienced which include cold streaks, cold tables, quitting when ahead, loss limits.

All of those concepts and I will repeat them here are absolutely poohpoohed by the "advantage video poker" crowd:

quitting when reaching a win goal
quitting when reaching a loss limit
cold tables
cold shooters
unlucky streaks

I think a big part of playing craps is knowing when to press your bets, when to quit after a hot roll, when to leave when the table is cold, and money management. The video poker "APs" will say thats a good idea at craps because it is a negative expectation game... but not when you have an edge at craps.

So let me ask this question: if ever there were a layout that included a positive edge for the player (heck, I don't even know if that is possible) could you adapt the strategy of the video poker advantage players who just keep on playing till they are too tired to play?
Buzzard
Buzzard
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December 2nd, 2012 at 8:42:35 PM permalink
" knowing when to press your bets, when to quit after a hot roll, when to leave when the table is cold, and money management. "

Gee , I had to check who posted that? for some reason the name, John Patrick, popped into my head !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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December 2nd, 2012 at 8:58:43 PM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
sodawater
sodawater
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December 2nd, 2012 at 10:25:45 PM permalink
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sodawater
sodawater
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December 2nd, 2012 at 10:28:37 PM permalink
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24Bingo
24Bingo
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December 2nd, 2012 at 11:16:47 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

So let me ask this question: if ever there were a layout that included a positive edge for the player (heck, I don't even know if that is possible) could you adapt the strategy of the video poker advantage players who just keep on playing till they are too tired to play?



Yes. Place the bets that give you a positive edge, according to the Kelly criterion, until you get tired.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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December 2nd, 2012 at 11:38:28 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

So let me ask this question: if ever there were a layout that included a positive edge for the player (heck, I don't even know if that is possible) could you adapt the strategy of the video poker advantage players who just keep on playing till they are too tired to play?



IMO, the only possible way to get an edge would be to be that good in controlling the dice. Or cheat. But if you had the edge, the same principles would apply.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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December 3rd, 2012 at 5:12:14 AM permalink
The only "advantage" play in craps, short of cheating, is dice control/influencing. And the jurt is still out on that one.

The real trick is knowing when a table will turn hot or cold. Good luck with that one too.

Quote: AlanMendelson

...cold tables
cold shooters
unlucky streaks...

When these occur, just play the don'ts. No need to quit if you really are clairvoyant enough to know when these things are going to happen.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Nareed
Nareed
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December 3rd, 2012 at 8:53:55 AM permalink
How about the New Mexico casinos that offer some zero-edge bets? I forget the exact bets, but a zero edge plus comps would seem to be positive to me. Asumming, naturally, that you can play only those bets and doing so will count for comps.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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December 3rd, 2012 at 8:59:20 AM permalink
Even if you would earn comps for those bets, I think it would be hard for a craps player to stand there and play only those bets.

FYI: As I recall, it is the Santa Ana casino that pays triple for a field on both the 2 and 12, as well as allowing 'buy' bets on the 4 and 10 for free. These are all zero edge bets. On a related note, when you're there, if you buy the 4 or 10, do you say "buy" or "free"? :)
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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