Is there such a concept of "advantage play" at craps that tells you to avoid cold tables?

In another thread, Sancho wrote about craps:

Quote: SanchoPanza

...The skill is learning as much as possible about the realities of the game, including what to look out for and what to avoid. Including the key move a bettor can make--leaving the table....

Sancho you made a very intriguing comment... about leaving the table.

Did you know that there are a group of video poker players who call themselves "advantage players" because they say they have an edge at the game? They say they have an edge from a combination of a "positive paytable" and associated comps such as cash back, free play, etc. And because of this positive edge they say there is no reason to quit playing video poker. In other words, they have the edge on each and every hand or play and it makes no difference when they leave -- and the only reason to leave is that you are tired or have to eat or go to the restroom or shower.... or whatever. Otherwise they reject all ideas about what we craps players have experienced which include cold streaks, cold tables, quitting when ahead, loss limits.

All of those concepts and I will repeat them here are absolutely poohpoohed by the "advantage video poker" crowd:

quitting when reaching a win goal
quitting when reaching a loss limit
cold tables
cold shooters
unlucky streaks

I think a big part of playing craps is knowing when to press your bets, when to quit after a hot roll, when to leave when the table is cold, and money management. The video poker "APs" will say thats a good idea at craps because it is a negative expectation game... but not when you have an edge at craps.

So let me ask this question: if ever there were a layout that included a positive edge for the player (heck, I don't even know if that is possible) could you adapt the strategy of the video poker advantage players who just keep on playing till they are too tired to play?

" knowing when to press your bets, when to quit after a hot roll, when to leave when the table is cold, and money management. "

Gee , I had to check who posted that? for some reason the name, John Patrick, popped into my head !

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Quote: AlanMendelson

So let me ask this question: if ever there were a layout that included a positive edge for the player (heck, I don't even know if that is possible) could you adapt the strategy of the video poker advantage players who just keep on playing till they are too tired to play?

Yes. Place the bets that give you a positive edge, according to the Kelly criterion, until you get tired.

Quote: AlanMendelson

So let me ask this question: if ever there were a layout that included a positive edge for the player (heck, I don't even know if that is possible) could you adapt the strategy of the video poker advantage players who just keep on playing till they are too tired to play?

IMO, the only possible way to get an edge would be to be that good in controlling the dice. Or cheat. But if you had the edge, the same principles would apply.

The only "advantage" play in craps, short of cheating, is dice control/influencing. And the jurt is still out on that one.

The real trick is knowing when a table will turn hot or cold. Good luck with that one too.

Quote: AlanMendelson

...cold tables
cold shooters
unlucky streaks...

When these occur, just play the don'ts. No need to quit if you really are clairvoyant enough to know when these things are going to happen.

How about the New Mexico casinos that offer some zero-edge bets? I forget the exact bets, but a zero edge plus comps would seem to be positive to me. Asumming, naturally, that you can play only those bets and doing so will count for comps.

Even if you would earn comps for those bets, I think it would be hard for a craps player to stand there and play only those bets.

FYI: As I recall, it is the Santa Ana casino that pays triple for a field on both the 2 and 12, as well as allowing 'buy' bets on the 4 and 10 for free. These are all zero edge bets. On a related note, when you're there, if you buy the 4 or 10, do you say "buy" or "free"? :)