What is the Call on these dice?
August 30th, 2012 at 10:41:32 AM
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What should the call be on these dice?
Lets see what everybody comes up with, please state why you are making that call!
http://i50.tinypic.com/6fcdig.jpg
superrick
Lets see what everybody comes up with, please state why you are making that call!
http://i50.tinypic.com/6fcdig.jpg
superrick
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...!
You do good brada ..!
superrick
Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction
http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php
...
August 30th, 2012 at 10:48:20 AM
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On a leaner, with your eye, remove the object that the die is leaning on.
Now which way will it go.
This is standard practice and what Stick is trained and taught to do, at least in the Nevada casinos I dealt in and taught.
added:
From Dale Yeazel Craps Dealing book
(Dale has seemed to disappear, did he make it to the Big table in the sky?)
These kind of calls are very easy to make, always.
The ruff ones are suspended die or one between two chips, that happens a lot on the hardway bets area.
Now which way will it go.
This is standard practice and what Stick is trained and taught to do, at least in the Nevada casinos I dealt in and taught.
added:
From Dale Yeazel Craps Dealing book
(Dale has seemed to disappear, did he make it to the Big table in the sky?)
These kind of calls are very easy to make, always.
The ruff ones are suspended die or one between two chips, that happens a lot on the hardway bets area.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
August 30th, 2012 at 10:49:16 AM
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I don't deal craps (yet!) but believe that should be called a "7", because:
From: No Roll Circumstances
Quote: "Golden Touch Craps.com
One or both dice land on the table and the come to rest on an edge, leaning against the side of the table, a stack of chips or chip, the puck, the bowl, or some other obstruction. This situation is called a "cocked" die. There are a couple of different calls that can take place in this situation. The face of the die that is most opposite the obstruction should be the called. This rule is sometimes stated as "if the obstruction is removed "and the die would be allowed to fall, that upward face would be the call.
From: No Roll Circumstances
August 30th, 2012 at 10:51:29 AM
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Yo! The "top" face of the dice should prevail. Of course, it depends on how you have been tipping too....
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
August 30th, 2012 at 10:58:47 AM
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my heart wants the Yo, but removing the obstruction results in 7, so 7 is the call.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
August 30th, 2012 at 11:01:26 AM
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Ill be optimistic and call it a winner 7 not an out 7
August 30th, 2012 at 11:01:28 AM
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To not quite repeat 7craps but rather add to it, when I was learning to deal the wording was, "the natural fall of the die." In fact, I think PA codifies it using those words. At the least, when we were tested on it if you did not use that phrase you missed the question. I remember because I appealed and the instructor said while my call was right, the wording was not.
I call Yo as if the "natural fall" was to 7 it would have fallen since there is no impediment to it naturally falling that way.
I call Yo as if the "natural fall" was to 7 it would have fallen since there is no impediment to it naturally falling that way.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
August 30th, 2012 at 11:02:55 AM
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Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't deal craps (yet!) but believe that should be called a "7", because:
From: No Roll Circumstances
Your quote supports 11 not 7. The face most opposite the obstruction is the 6, not the 2.
August 30th, 2012 at 11:03:05 AM
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I don't know why you guys think that removing the obstruction would allow the 2 to be the top side.
Are you suggesting that "removing the chips" would mean to lift them? Yeah, I can see how that would result in a 7. But what if you instead slid them to the right?
Another way to think about it is to imagine that the obstruction was made of ice. As the ice melts, where would the die land?
The die obviously is leaning against the chips. If the chips melted, the 6 would be on top.
Bottom line: I call Yo.
Are you suggesting that "removing the chips" would mean to lift them? Yeah, I can see how that would result in a 7. But what if you instead slid them to the right?
Another way to think about it is to imagine that the obstruction was made of ice. As the ice melts, where would the die land?
The die obviously is leaning against the chips. If the chips melted, the 6 would be on top.
Bottom line: I call Yo.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 30th, 2012 at 11:03:58 AM
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Try telling that to a Gaming Control Agent on the complaint from major don't bettors if the roll happened while a point was established.Quote: AyecarumbaYo! The "top" face of the dice should prevail. Of course, it depends on how you have been tipping too....
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
August 30th, 2012 at 11:04:34 AM
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Why are so many people saying removing the obstruction gives a 7? It definitely looks to me like moving those chips will cause it to fall 11.
EDIT: Oh, right, the dice in the photo. Yeah, those are a 7.
EDIT: Oh, right, the dice in the photo. Yeah, those are a 7.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
August 30th, 2012 at 11:05:51 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI don't know why you guys think that removing the obstruction would allow the 2 to be the top side.
Are you suggesting that "removing the chips" would mean to lift them? Yeah, I can see how that would result in a 7. But what if you instead slid them to the right?
Another way to think about it is to imagine that the obstruction was made of ice. As the ice melts, where would the die land?
The die obviously is leaning against the chips. If the chips melted, the 6 would be on top.
Bottom line: I call Yo.
I showed a different photo than the OP.
His photo call is a 7 (1-6)
if the obstruction melts as you say, that is a good way to think of it
My photo is from Dale's Craps Dealing book and the proper call is an 11.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
August 30th, 2012 at 11:08:04 AM
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Quote: 7crapsI showed a different photo than the OP.
That explains a LOT.
I think everyone agreees on the call, but we are arguing because there are two different examples being used!
Bottm line: Learn to use IMG tags!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 30th, 2012 at 11:08:30 AM
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Quote: jc2286Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't deal craps (yet!) but believe that should be called a "7", because:
From: No Roll Circumstances
Your quote supports 11 not 7. The face most opposite the obstruction is the 6, not the 2.
Odd, it looks to me like it would be the "1" not the "5".
August 30th, 2012 at 11:13:49 AM
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I was going to show the OP photo but I got kicked of the internet.Quote: DJTeddyBearThat explains a LOT.
I think everyone agreees on the call, but we are arguing because there are two different examples being used!
Bottm line: Learn to use IMG tags!
Bottom line, leaners or cocked die are the easiest questionable calls to make for Stick, or a Dealer.
There are set rules.
I like the melting ice, except on a hot craps table
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
August 30th, 2012 at 11:38:41 AM
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Quote: MonkeyMonkey
Your quote supports 11 not 7. The face most opposite the obstruction is the 6, not the 2.
Odd, it looks to me like it would be the "1" not the "5".
I agree too with the 7 call in this photo also.Because the 6 is closest to the table than the 2, and with a 6 on the table the 1 is pointing skyward.
IF the 2 was closer to the table, it would already be flat on it but it is not
August 30th, 2012 at 11:53:43 AM
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I guess it is just me, but I thank it is bullshit that cocked dice aren't "no dice" every time... yeah, I know, it's casino-universal, casinos don't want the game to slow down, arguments would ensue anyway, etc, but IMO it gives the house another way to create ill feelings.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
August 30th, 2012 at 11:54:24 AM
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Quote: MonkeyMonkeyQuote: jc2286Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't deal craps (yet!) but believe that should be called a "7", because:
From: No Roll Circumstances
Your quote supports 11 not 7. The face most opposite the obstruction is the 6, not the 2.
Odd, it looks to me like it would be the "1" not the "5".
I was using the pic in the 2nd post. I never clicked on the link in the OP. I just assumed they were the same. I agree that in the photo quoted here it should be a 7 total.
August 30th, 2012 at 11:55:02 AM
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Quote: MonkeyMonkeyQuote: jc2286Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't deal craps (yet!) but believe that should be called a "7", because:
From: No Roll Circumstances
Your quote supports 11 not 7. The face most opposite the obstruction is the 6, not the 2.
Odd, it looks to me like it would be the "1" not the "5".
I agree.
Here's my reasoning: In the photo, the wall is exerting a force on the die that is upward and toward the middle of the table. Removing that force would cause the die to move downward and away from the middle of the table producing a 1 on top.
August 30th, 2012 at 12:08:52 PM
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I agree with you.Quote: odiousgambitI guess it is just me, but I thank it is bullshit that cocked dice aren't "no dice" every time...
I always thought that should be the call.
Both die faces have to be flat on the table felt or it is a no roll.
That would solve lots of arguments and really not slow the game down.
Almost it would be just like golf.
The ball is sitting on the edge of the cup at the end of the putt.
How long does one wait until the wind or grass or a vibration makes it fall into the cup.
August 30th, 2012 at 1:19:51 PM
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The no-roll calls are many.Quote: guido111I agree with you.
I always thought that should be the call.
Both die faces have to be flat on the table felt or it is a no roll.
That would solve lots of arguments and really not slow the game down.
A cocked die is no big deal. It still causes arguments that can slow the game down. Thank goodness for a boxman.
Now I have seen this many times, a die between 2 chips.
If the stack was higher and the die was suspended OFF the layout, it would be a no roll. This has pissed off many.
The photo below, I thought I had a better one showing this.
What is your call?
a 2 or 4?
Move $5 chip and we get a 2,
Move the $1 chip we get a 4.
This happens more times when one die goes crazy and rolls into the hardway box area.
also happens a lot when not enough air or space between the pass line flat bet and the pass odds bet.
The dice have a way of finding those tiny spaces.
This actually happened at a table I was dealing with a $100 hard 8 bet. (the other die was a 4)
The point was an 8 and some big bettors were on the don't pass as I remember
The player with the hard 8 wanted it a hard eight and a winner
The don't pass guys wanted it called a 2 for a call of easy 6
At first Stick hesitated and asked box for the call.
He hesitated and the table erupted. One big guy, the shooter, tried to bump the table and make the die move.
It was so fucking ugly.
Box ruled it a no roll.
The argument continued.
I went on break during the argument and really never cared on what the final outcome was.
I was told the shooter hit a winner 8 easy and most players left pissed off anyways.
I never did see any of those players again.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
August 30th, 2012 at 1:35:15 PM
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7craps -
Wow. That's close.
But the photo you posted, which I assume is a re-creation, has the die leaning more on the $1 chip.
You can tell because your overhead shot shows the top edge slightly to the left of the bottom edge.
Therefore, this should be a call of 4.
However, I can also see that it is really way too close to call, and would probably say "No roll."
I know there are few if any casinos that will do this but...
If I were totally interested in keeping customers happy, and really believe that doing so merely means that it's gonna take a few mintues longer for them to lose their shirts, I would then rule it as 4 for the right side bettors making the point (and hard 8), and a "no roll" for the wrong side bettors with the option (as the always have) of taking bets down. Follow it with a new come-out. Anyone on the don't and the hard 8 has a decision to make. They can't have it both ways.
Wow. That's close.
But the photo you posted, which I assume is a re-creation, has the die leaning more on the $1 chip.
You can tell because your overhead shot shows the top edge slightly to the left of the bottom edge.
Therefore, this should be a call of 4.
However, I can also see that it is really way too close to call, and would probably say "No roll."
I know there are few if any casinos that will do this but...
If I were totally interested in keeping customers happy, and really believe that doing so merely means that it's gonna take a few mintues longer for them to lose their shirts, I would then rule it as 4 for the right side bettors making the point (and hard 8), and a "no roll" for the wrong side bettors with the option (as the always have) of taking bets down. Follow it with a new come-out. Anyone on the don't and the hard 8 has a decision to make. They can't have it both ways.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 30th, 2012 at 1:42:56 PM
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yes, a re-creationQuote: DJTeddyBear7craps -
Wow. That's close.
But the photo you posted, which I assume is a re-creation, has the die leaning more on the $1 chip.
You can tell because your overhead shot shows the top edge slightly to the left of the bottom edge.
Therefore, this should be a call of 4.
However, I can also see that it is really way too close to call, and would probably say "No roll."
I took the photo from an angle on purpose.
The die was perfectly centered.
I remember the box looking straight down on the die and then calling it a no roll.
But from different angles everyone sees it differently.
I set this up at Casino Night parties during Craps play and see what everyone's opinion is.
Not all ever agree!
It really depends on the angle at what they see.
This situation actually happens more between the pass and odds bet as I mentioned.
I just do not remember a good story to tell with it.
The weekend is here
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
August 30th, 2012 at 1:52:04 PM
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I so often see dealers / stickpeople moving the odds bet at least an inch away that I've gotten into the habbit myself - I sometimes move the odds for a neighbor. Duh, now I know why!Quote: 7crapsThis situation actually happens more between the pass and odds bet as I mentioned.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 30th, 2012 at 1:58:21 PM
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I got nailed on that one when I was learning to play craps.Quote: DJTeddyBearI so often see dealers / stickpeople moving the odds bet at least an inch away that I've gotten into the habbit myself - I sometimes move the odds for a neighbor. Duh, now I know why!
Say the point was a 9 and the other die was a 5.
It was my bet the die found.
The stickman called it a 9 winner and then scolded me for not leaving enough room between my two bets.
The boxman just smiled and walked away.
I felt so small after the dealer said he could have called it a 7 out.
I felt every eye looking at me and there was about 3 of us at the table.
I never do that again.
August 30th, 2012 at 2:32:56 PM
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Quote: guido111
Almost it would be just like golf.
The ball is sitting on the edge of the cup at the end of the putt.
How long does one wait until the wind or grass or a vibration makes it fall into the cup.
In golf, it's up to 10 seconds, fwiw.
August 30th, 2012 at 2:45:49 PM
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First Photo:
"Seven-Out, No Field, New Shooter, Take the Line, Pay the Dont's!!!" That's me they're paying, just for the record!
Second Photo:
"Yo! 'Leven, Pay the Field, Pay the Come Bet! New Bets? Any Bets? OK, Dice Are Out!"
"Seven-Out, No Field, New Shooter, Take the Line, Pay the Dont's!!!" That's me they're paying, just for the record!
Second Photo:
"Yo! 'Leven, Pay the Field, Pay the Come Bet! New Bets? Any Bets? OK, Dice Are Out!"
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 30th, 2012 at 4:28:05 PM
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Quote: superrickWhat should the call be on these dice?
Lets see what everybody comes up with, please state why you are making that call!
http://i50.tinypic.com/6fcdig.jpg
superrick
The original post is obviously a 7 where as the subsequent post and attached picture is a Yo. With 2 pictures out there with opposite results we can argue all day until you click on the link on the OP.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
August 31st, 2012 at 1:09:46 PM
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I'd say it ought to count if they're on chips (or the marker, or whatever else might be on the table), but against the wall, no dice. But I don't run a casino.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
