Best bets with small bank roll

I'll be going to Vegas shortly with someone who wants to play Craps, but would have a very limited bankroll. I want her to have fun and not get discouraged playing. If her bank roll is about $100 - $150 what would be the best bets to make? Im a pass with odds and two come bet with odds player, but I thinkl this would crush her bank roll if the dice dont cooperate. I've been thinking of just having her make min pass line bet with no odds and place the 6 and 8. I also thought of having her just making a pass line bet with single odds, but this method might be to boring to play and personnally I dont think playing just one number makes any money. What do you guys think of placing the point before the come out (no chance of losing on a craps roll) and then place the 6 and or 8?? This would be for a $5 table only as a $10 table would be out of the question. Making bets with the least house advantage is not an issue. I just want her to have fun but make bets that keeps her playing with minumum losses.

How long does she want the money to last? How about a $5 pass line and $5 come bet, no odds? or $5 pass line and either 6 or 8 for $6?

Do you plan to do all your gambling on The Strip? If you don't mind taking a drive out into the Vegas suburbs, you should consider the $1 craps tables at either Railroad Pass or Joker's Wild. Her $100 bankroll could last quite a while on a $1 table.

I like the pass line, no odds, and two come bets, no odds.

The reason for this is that if you make a place bet, players often feel pressured to press their bet. Power pressing, while fun, is not for someone with a small bankroll.

Learn Pai Gow Poker....

Quote: Clownkeeper

I'll be going to Vegas shortly with someone who wants to play Craps, but would have a very limited bankroll.
I want her to have fun and not get discouraged playing.

But playing Craps IS FUN.

"I want" but what does "she want"
And what is fun for her?

What exactly would get her discouraged in her own words?

Discouraged / not having fun would be making bets the bankroll cant sustain then leaving the game early because the money is gone.

She may have no problem being bored with one line bet at a time, since she won't be used to more action. Presumably she will be playing along side you? If there are a mounting number of rolls with the point being unresolved, you can emphasize how thrilling it would be if the shooter continues like that. You can also just get her to vicariously enjoy your additional betting as you explain what you are doing. A new player concentrating on etiquette, after you have emphasized how embarrassing mistakes can happen, is not a bad thing. You may have forgotten how you were nervous at first about rolling and remembering to bet and all that, but your newbie will be in the middle of it.

I wouldn't worry that a new player would get bummed too much by craps coming up. How often does that really wipe anyone out?

I'd go for line bets with 1x odds for the newbie, that still gets it below 1% HE and it really is just a matter of luck then on anyway.

Quote: Clownkeeper

I just want her to have fun but make bets that keeps her playing with minumum losses.

Bet $5 pass line and $5 don't pass.
She will play the longest time with a limited bankroll and play with minumum losses.

IMO, Everything else you said before does not matter to your last statement.

Quote: Clownkeeper

and personnally I dont think playing just one number makes any money.

I say playing one number has a better chance to win or make any money than 2 numbers.

The reason, by the math, is variance. Better chance at making money with less number of bets.
Most will probably not understand this, but look at it this way.
More bets can make more money, about 30% of the time, but they really lose more money by making more bets (70% of the time).
Most are just happy and have more fun with the 30% chance of winning more.

Some data
20 unit Bankroll. (examples, $100 bankroll with average bet of $5, or $20,000 bankroll with an average bet of $1000... same thing)

Bet	Avg $ Bet	10 unit win	20 unit win	30 unit win	40 unit win
ONE pass line 0 Odds	$5	56.926%	36.223%	24.433%	17.063%
ONE pass line 0 Odds	$6	58.577%	38.428%	26.772%	19.344%
ONE pass line 1x Odds	$8.33	61.123%	44.149%	33.973%	27.156%
ONE pass line 2x Odds	$11.67	61.621%	45.637%	36.005%	29.539%
ONE Place6 or 8	$12	61.621%	36.982%	25.397%	17.888%
2 Bets - Place6,8	$12	52.920%	31.976%	20.511%	13.560%
4 Bets - Place 5,6,8 and 9	$22	41.312%	19.852%	8.178%	3.999%
ONE pass line 0 Odds	$12	62.670%	44.134%	33.115%	25.853%
ONE Buy4 $25 vig on win	$25	60.571%	42.643%	31.823%	24.644%
Buy4 and Buy10 $25 each vig on win	$50	58.956%	39.716%	28.238%	20.406%

method. pass with odds and place 6&8 a 1 billion trial simulation was used and verified with two different programs.
The others are exact calculations.

The ONE bet pass or come player with odds wins more on average and hits higher win goals on average, increases more of the starting bankroll than just making 2 place bets (the 6&8)
OR even 2 of the BEST Buy bets available.

The odds bet for the pass/come does change this a bit, but not that noticeable for such small bankrolls (per unit)
Even larger $ ONE bets win more than smaller $ ONE bets

added by request:
Again, making multiple bets vs just one bet lowers the variance, (adds to the expected loss) and the chances to win more money from the SAME $$$ at risk.
Because it loses more money.
Win + Loss = Net.

not as others always point out
win = win
a loss does not matter

Enron accounting tricks have been replaced with US Gov accounting techniques.

Just throw away the columns of data that make the bottom line look bad.

Quote: 7craps

I say playing one number has a better chance to win or make any money than 2 numbers.

Absolutely wrong. Your chance of winning money goes up AND the edge goes DOWN by making more bets.

Buy the 4 for $25 take $74 and down 1/75 is 1.33% .. change of winning is 33.33%
But the 4 AND 10 for $25 each and take $99 and down on the first hit, the edge is 1/100 or 1.00% chance of winning is 50.00%

You have exactly 50/50 chance winning betting the 4 and 10 (better chance of winning money) and the edge is a smaller ratio of the total money you take down.

This is one example and there are many.

So, you are WRONG.

Let me put you on the ignore list now, JERK

This topic is even addressed in the FAQ if you had bothered to look, oh great one, Craps 7, the one who programs "billions of simulations."

https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/craps/betting-systems/

Quote: Wizard of Odds

The reason the overall house edge appears to be less than the house edge of each individual bet is because the house edge on place bets is generally measured as expected player loss per bet resolved.However in this case the player is only keeping the place bets up for one roll. This significantly reduces the house edge on the place bets from 4.00% to 1.11% on the 5and from 1.52% to 0.46% on the 6 and 8. For you puristswho think I am inconsistent in measuring the house edge on place bets as per bet resolved (or ignoring ties) then I invite you to visit my craps appendix 2 where all craps bets are measured per roll (including ties).

For anyone who feels my attack on this guy is unwarranted, I apologize. But this guy attacked me on my first post in over a year obviously without giving much thought, then put me on the ignore list and ATTEMPTED to make me look bad, all the while looking like a TOTAL ASS HIMSELF. So screw this little turd!!!

Quote: Clownkeeper

I'll be going to Vegas shortly with someone who wants to play Craps, but would have a very limited bankroll. I want her to have fun and not get discouraged playing. If her bank roll is about $100 - $150 what would be the best bets to make? Im a pass with odds and two come bet with odds player, but I thinkl this would crush her bank roll if the dice dont cooperate. I've been thinking of just having her make min pass line bet with no odds and place the 6 and 8. I also thought of having her just making a pass line bet with single odds, but this method might be to boring to play and personnally I dont think playing just one number makes any money. What do you guys think of placing the point before the come out (no chance of losing on a craps roll) and then place the 6 and or 8?? This would be for a $5 table only as a $10 table would be out of the question. Making bets with the least house advantage is not an issue. I just want her to have fun but make bets that keeps her playing with minumum losses.

Hey Clownkeeper. My suggestion for a limited bankroll is simple: bet the passline and the passline only and take no odds at all.

Advantages:

* house edge is very low
* bet lasts a long time (good combination!)
* your bets are aligned with the rest of the table and when you win, you know it because the stick man says "WINNER!"
* it is very difficult to lose all of your money using this strategy (you can play as long as you want for $200 in general).
* you can roll the dice without changing your betting strategy

Disadvantages:

* Dealers will tell you "TAKE ODDS" and encourage your newb to bet more than she may want to bet
* Some new players may make a passline bet after the point is established, which can be a horrible bet! Advise for how to check the puck says "OFF" before betting.

But especially having bets that align with the stick man calls is a good reason to do this.

If this is too boring and if the player wants to win or lose more quickly, I advise new players play on the field making sure they pay triple. You can lose much more quickly, but knowing the rules for when you should win or lose is easier if the player is worried about the rules about when they should expect to get paid or not if "you get paid when they say 'winner'".

I hope this helps.

Buying the 4 and 10 especially in Casinos that don't charge a Vig is one of the best bets in the game. Casinos that only charge the Vig on the Buy 4 and Buy 10 AFTER they win is not a bad play either

Keep track of the shooter making Huge Buy Bets on the 4 and 10; he/she may know something....


2V

Quote: CrapsForever

Buying the 4 and 10 especially in Casinos that don't charge a Vig is one of the best bets in the game. Casinos that only charge the Vig on the Buy 4 and Buy 10 AFTER they win is not a bad play either

Keep track of the shooter making Huge Buy Bets on the 4 and 10; he/she may know something....


2V

I must disagree with you there. I whole-heartedly agree that it's a solid bet when the vig is only charged on a win. On the other hand, it's only really an awesome bet when you can go up to $25-30 and even then the variance can destroy you rather quickly without a large bankroll.

Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite ways to play the game too (PL+odds, Buy the 4/10) but not with a small bankroll.

Quote: ahiromu

I must disagree with you there. I whole-heartedly agree that it's a solid bet when the vig is only charged on a win. On the other hand, it's only really an awesome bet when you can go up to $25-30 and even then the variance can destroy you rather quickly without a large bankroll.

Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite ways to play the game too (PL+odds, Buy the 4/10) but not with a small bankroll.

I agree with this. I'm not even sure if many casinos offer to buy the 4 or 10 with anything less than $25. If you aren't doing a Buy bet, you are getting pretty awful odds.

With that size of a bankroll, I would suggest just the pass line and 1-2X odds. Try and find a $5 table. Another option would be place the 6/8 and don't do a pass line bet. I like the place bet more because it will hit more often and on a hot roller, you might be able to press a little even on a smaller bankroll. The pass line bet will allow you to play for longer though if you don't press.

I say go $5 pass line and encourage her to bet $6 6/8 or $5 on her "favorite number." My experience is that women get bored with pass line only and they really get bored on a long roll. But they love picking a number to bet. If you just do this 5/5 bet it should allow for a fair amount of play. Consider "allowing" her to press a 6/8 win to the other 6/8 so she sees more action.

Teaching a day-one player free-odds can be a waste of time as they don't yet grasp it and get really confused. Tell her "if you want to bet more than $5 here wait and I will show you something special!"

And do get off the strip and find the low-limit game.

Best bet with a limited bankroll?

Never tip any dealer, ever.

Best bet for the small bankroll? Passline only. You can stand there with the rest of the table and cheer the action at minimal cost.

Quote: Ahigh

Let me put you on the ignore list now, JERK... So screw this little turd!!!

Three-day suspension.

Well, I see thing little has changed in my absence. LOL

Well, I see thing little has changed in my absence. LOL

First time ever playing Craps in Ballys Atlantic City back in 2000;

Dealer told me bet the 6 & 8 and an occasional field bet.

Brought $200 to the table; cashed in $100 to play on a $10 table....4 hours later ....Cashed out with $1,100 Profit; A Craps Addict was born!

On a small bankroll with a novice player. Pass Line with Odds gets boring unless the person is shooting the Dice. The 6 & 8 with an occasional field (especially if it pays triple on the 2/12) can be lots of fun.

Consider learning the basics of the game online (like the free game on the WoO site) before putting down real money. It can be an expensive lesson if you try to pick it up on the fly.

Rules for shooting the dice should definitely be reviewed too. It lowers the stress level. Encourage her to shoot at least once for the experience, and don't sweat the outcome. Have fun!


.... but have a back-up plan in case she goes bust in 10 minutes.