Player Advantage Craps
By my calculations one person, playing for 20 hours total, working inside on come outs, would only get $300-$500 MAX of profit. So not much. But sti
But if I were going to the casino anyway, I'd do it.
Quote: FleaStiffAnybody with a six percent advantage will make more than that!!
It's only a 6% advantage on $3 bets. If you push your bet, the advantage goes down, then goes away. You could get a couple friends together, as long as you aren't taking much time off a paying job. Each of you can play the inside numbers for $3. You should all make out the same if you are betting the same, so it's no different than playing by yourself, except you save on gas...
Quote: ewjones080So one of my local casinos is offering a $3 craps game from noon-7 on Wednesdays in June. The thing is, they don't have .50c chips, so they ROUND UP. For place bets 6/8 gets $4, 5/9 gets $5 and 4/10 gets $6. By my calculations this gives the PLAYER a 6% advantage on inside numbers with basically a free buy bet on the 4/10 (zero house edge). How much would you exploit this?
Why are they doing this promotion? I know Ameristar St Charles used to do these "promotions" when they needed new crew to get practice. This means the game can move at a snail's pace and can be boring.
The right way to approach this is to get a large enough group of friends together to completely fill the table and have none of them bet anything other than the inside bets, except for the shooter who makes a single line bet. You'll maximize rolls/hour that way and therefore hourly rate. This is important because you only have 21 hours left total for this play. If you can get rolls/hour up to 180 (every 20 seconds) you can make as much as $40/hour, or $840 theoretical total, but that's the extreme upper limit. Seems like a lot of work for a too-small reward.
Quote: konceptumAt a blackjack table, you can play more than one hand at a time. If you're at the craps table, can you ask to play more than one position? Then you could play 16 $3 bets all around the table.
I'm pretty sure that would fix that promotion REALLY quickly.
Quote: MathExtremistAnytime a positive edge disappears based on increased action, it's best to look at actual dollar amounts. It's not really 6%, it's $0.18 per bet on the 6/8. Divided by resolution time is 5.5c/roll, or between $5 and $6/hour. The same turns out to be true for the 5/9 as well, so with all four +EV bets working you're looking at between +$20 and $24/hour depending on the speed of the table (around 100 rolls/hour).
The right way to approach this is to get a large enough group of friends together to completely fill the table and have none of them bet anything other than the inside bets, except for the shooter who makes a single line bet. You'll maximize rolls/hour that way and therefore hourly rate. This is important because you only have 21 hours left total for this play. If you can get rolls/hour up to 180 (every 20 seconds) you can make as much as $40/hour, or $840 theoretical total, but that's the extreme upper limit. Seems like a lot of work for a too-small reward.
Who goes to the casino for work anyway?
I think the point is, we usually loose money when we bet, but we do it because it is kinda fun.
If you can make a little bit of money (being a small amount) and have the same amount of fun, then that is great.
People say things like- 'i'd rather work' - that is odd. Seriously, who is in a casino (that isn't math challenged) as an alternative to work and not play? That is a small few I am sure.
That promotion sounds really fun to me!
This promotion isn't specifically craps it's "3's ARE WILD WEDNESDAYS!" So you earn 3x the points on slots and VP and $3 blackjack, roulette, and craps. But this place has always rounded up on improper bets. $25 odds on 5/9 gets $38. $5 horn gets $33 on high side. It just so happens $3 place bets become player advantage. I have to believe management is aware of this, but don't care because it's a miniscule advantage.
What I would prefer to do is stack up every hit on the inside on my odds. Then if I hit my point it's a big payday. In this scenario at least.
No.Quote: konceptumAt a blackjack table, you can play more than one hand at a time. If you're at the craps table, can you ask to play more than one position? Then you could play 16 $3 bets all around the table.
Each "hand" in BJ consists of different cards. Therefore, it's acceptable to play multiple hands, as long as there aren't people waiting.
A "hand" in craps is a player's turn as a shooter. The other players are betting on his hand. And the chips are placed by a person's position at the rail. Unless you're morbidly obese, you're only taking up one position.
Quote: ewjones080Okay.. I just thought about it, and I think this particular casino--whether realizing it or not--allows player advantage bets on craps. I'll find out for sure next Wednesday. I fully intend to exploit this, but what do you think would happen if they found out? Do you think I could get into any kind of trouble? I mean I shouldn't, since it's their own fault. I'm not doing any kind of cheating..
I don't think they are going to back you off for playing 3 dollar craps. If they find that a lot of people are abusing this promotion they will either start rounding down or use the "management reserves the right to alter or end this promotion at any time" clause.
They've got to know the detriments of rounding up. As mentioned, they're probably breaking in a new craps crew.
It's pretty simple, really—the value of rounding up on the $3 bets is too low for the vast majority of players who would be interested in playing it optimally. There are casinos in NV that perpetually offer +EV games, but the overall value is in tens of dollars, rather than hundreds or thousands, so the majority of players who end up playing the games do so sub-optimally. That said, it's a fantastic opportunity for a person who is not interested in making tons of money, and would simply like to play some craps with a small positive expectation. It's also a good way to build low-level comps with little downside risk.Quote: ewjones080Yes that's true, but the thing is, they ALWAYS round up, even before this promotion started. So obviously no players have noticed and taken advantage of it.
Quote: LonesomeGamblerIt's pretty simple, really—the value of rounding up on the $3 bets is too low for the vast majority of players who would be interested in playing it optimally. There are casinos in NV that perpetually offer +EV games, but the overall value is in tens of dollars, rather than hundreds or thousands, so the majority of players who end up playing the games do so sub-optimally. That said, it's a fantastic opportunity for a person who is not interested in making tons of money, and would simply like to play some craps with a small positive expectation. It's also a good way to build low-level comps with little downside risk.
So you're saying, if I played there twice a week for just 3-4 hours a day, the casino simply doesn't care that I'm making $15-$25/hr profit?? I think that's a real possibility even without this promotion. And I can certainly believe that there are zero or a just a couple of players that take advantage of it, otherwise they would've changed their policy a long time ago. I suppose it is possibly almost nobody has figured it out either, because I saw a roundup payout once, but it didn't strike me at the time that it could actually give the player the advantage on that particular bet.
I don't know, it still baffles me.
Quote: ewjones080Quote: LonesomeGamblerIt's pretty simple, really—the value of rounding up on the $3 bets is too low for the vast majority of players who would be interested in playing it optimally. There are casinos in NV that perpetually offer +EV games, but the overall value is in tens of dollars, rather than hundreds or thousands, so the majority of players who end up playing the games do so sub-optimally. That said, it's a fantastic opportunity for a person who is not interested in making tons of money, and would simply like to play some craps with a small positive expectation. It's also a good way to build low-level comps with little downside risk.
So you're saying, if I played there twice a week for just 3-4 hours a day, the casino simply doesn't care that I'm making $15-$25/hr profit?? I think that's a real possibility even without this promotion. And I can certainly believe that there are zero or a just a couple of players that take advantage of it, otherwise they would've changed their policy a long time ago. I suppose it is possibly almost nobody has figured it out either, because I saw a roundup payout once, but it didn't strike me at the time that it could actually give the player the advantage on that particular bet.
I don't know, it still baffles me.
Don't forget to ask for the buffet comp at the end of your session too! More +EV!
