WangSanJose
WangSanJose
Joined: May 2, 2012
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 109
May 25th, 2012 at 11:30:53 AM permalink
My friend and I drove from San Jose to Las Vegas, 10PM yesterday to 7AM today. My friend was too tired, so he slept in the car at the MGM parking lot. I went to MGM, and searching for the S17 0.28% house edge game.
I arrived at MGM at 7:30AM, then I was walking through the first floor back & forth, but I only found tons of H17 game, and some weird game such as "black switch".
I was very tired, then I found a 25 cents and a 1 cent slot machine. I played 10 dollars, and lost them all in 2 minutes. That's what I expected to lose. I knew slot machine is a suck game, I've never played it before.
On the way back to the main entrance, I was so disappointed, then I gladly found some S17 game near the main entrance!(go into the main entrance then go straight.) Only a few people are playing because it was morning. I watched them playing for a while, and I felt a little bit embarrassed.
The minimum bet was 25 dollars, a bit higher than my tolerance. Then I found a new shoe, it was 70% penetration, 3 people on the table. After 2 rounds of play, the TC went up to +2.. I realized that I have no way to reject this shoe! I sat down, and changed 4 green chips with 100 dollars, I was so f**king nervous & exciting.. I've never seen a rule better than this since I'm from San Jose, all the trashy 21 century blackjack around my apartment.
I played 8 rounds, and got 200 dollars cash in, then I left. I was so happy.. It was much higher than the expect value~
When I was playing, I always worrying if the pit bosses look at me, so I was nervous & willing to leave.
Why were there so many people playing at H17 table? Don't they know that S17 game is better? I'm so confused with those people.

Another question, what's the best BS number & deviation number for S17 0.28% house edge game?
I saw the chart in the Professional Blackjack book by Stanford Wong, and I got another chart by Blackjack Engine on Blackjackinfo.com.
Those 2 charts have a lot of differences... I think the correct way to play should only be single choice, so which one is more accurate?

I'm not willing to play anymore in this trip because I think I haven't mastered the chart. But I'll go to some other casino tomorrow to have a concept of Vegas.
Going to sleep now. Thank you guys a lot for the helped me :)
Great
only1choice
only1choice
Joined: Jul 8, 2010
  • Threads: 59
  • Posts: 386
May 25th, 2012 at 11:35:32 AM permalink
Can't help you on the numbers but as far as the game is concerned you will get the hang of it.
Make sure you are fully prepared because your edge is so small and any mistakes will be your downfall.
Good Luck.
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
WangSanJose
WangSanJose
Joined: May 2, 2012
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 109
May 25th, 2012 at 11:46:27 AM permalink
I don't have a CVCX. I think it can calculate the most accurate number for this rule: 6Deck S17 DAS RSA LS
Great
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 4298
May 25th, 2012 at 1:17:08 PM permalink
Quote: WangSanJose

My friend and I drove from San Jose to Las Vegas, 10PM yesterday to 7AM today. My friend was too tired, so he slept in the car at the MGM parking lot. I went to MGM, and searching for the S17 0.28% house edge game.
I arrived at MGM at 7:30AM, then I was walking through the first floor back & forth, but I only found tons of H17 game, and some weird game such as "black switch".
I was very tired, then I found a 25 cents and a 1 cent slot machine. I played 10 dollars, and lost them all in 2 minutes. That's what I expected to lose. I knew slot machine is a suck game, I've never played it before.
On the way back to the main entrance, I was so disappointed, then I gladly found some S17 game near the main entrance!(go into the main entrance then go straight.) Only a few people are playing because it was morning. I watched them playing for a while, and I felt a little bit embarrassed.
The minimum bet was 25 dollars, a bit higher than my tolerance. Then I found a new shoe, it was 70% penetration, 3 people on the table. After 2 rounds of play, the TC went up to +2.. I realized that I have no way to reject this shoe! I sat down, and changed 4 green chips with 100 dollars, I was so f**king nervous & exciting.. I've never seen a rule better than this since I'm from San Jose, all the trashy 21 century blackjack around my apartment.
I played 8 rounds, and got 200 dollars cash in, then I left. I was so happy.. It was much higher than the expect value~
When I was playing, I always worrying if the pit bosses look at me, so I was nervous & willing to leave.
Why were there so many people playing at H17 table? Don't they know that S17 game is better? I'm so confused with those people.

Another question, what's the best BS number & deviation number for S17 0.28% house edge game?
I saw the chart in the Professional Blackjack book by Stanford Wong, and I got another chart by Blackjack Engine on Blackjackinfo.com.
Those 2 charts have a lot of differences... I think the correct way to play should only be single choice, so which one is more accurate?

I'm not willing to play anymore in this trip because I think I haven't mastered the chart. But I'll go to some other casino tomorrow to have a concept of Vegas.
Going to sleep now. Thank you guys a lot for the helped me :)


I'm not familiar with the chart from blackjackinfo.com, but in general Wong's book is the tried and true standard for Hi-Lo, so I would defer to that source. Although it seems likely that the two charts are referring to slightly different rules or a slightly different system.

Congrats on your first card counting experience. I remember feeling that same nervousness, in the beginning you will always be paranoid that the pit is watching you. You'll get over it eventually, but be sure not to get too comfortable...a lot of times the pit is watching you.

Also I feel obliged to mention that you should be careful posting such detailed accounts of your AP exploits. The exact time, casino, pit, dollar amounts etc. would make it very easy to identify if you a casino employee were trolling this website trying to "make" APs. I know it sounds incredulous, but I have heard that it happens. It has not happened to me or anyone I know, but I don't know that many APs so that doesn't count for much.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
only1choice
only1choice
Joined: Jul 8, 2010
  • Threads: 59
  • Posts: 386
May 25th, 2012 at 1:23:40 PM permalink
1BB also warned me about that and I value his opinion.
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 1246
May 25th, 2012 at 2:09:35 PM permalink
I just wear a shirt that says "I <3 Casino Employee's"
Usually works...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
Joined: May 5, 2010
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1573
May 25th, 2012 at 3:32:57 PM permalink
Quote: WangSanJose

Why were there so many people playing at H17 table? Don't they know that S17 game is better? I'm so confused with those people.



There are a few reasons that people will play H17 over S17:

1) (Most obvious) The minimums are considerably lower. MGM will have $10 minimums pretty much all the time except peak times and fight nights. As you pointed out, the lowest is $25 in that particular pit (I know which area you are talking about, as it's also the pit with Tiles).

2) For people playing over $25 a hand anyways, some people don't know the s17 pits are there. They are pretty out in the open, but tucked away, so some people don't research; they just assume and find the closest table.

3) Some people have "lucky tables" and nothing you can say will convince them otherwise.

4) There's a small faction of people who LIKE when the dealer hits soft 17. 6 SHOULD be a bust card, but on a S17 table, it isn't 1/13th of the time. I've known many a player who hate that SO MUCH, they are willing to give the house a .20% edge just for the chance that they bust (even though, more often than not they make a much stronger hand).
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
WangSanJose
WangSanJose
Joined: May 2, 2012
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 109
May 26th, 2012 at 1:38:26 AM permalink
To AcesAndEights:

That are some pretty good ideas, I'll remember that.
I felt like in the S17 area, pit bosses are watching the table more carefully than those H17 areas.
Great
WangSanJose
WangSanJose
Joined: May 2, 2012
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 109
May 26th, 2012 at 1:44:20 AM permalink
I went to some other casinos today. Mirage has only one 6 deck 28% house edge game with 25 minimum.
And I didn't found any other 6 deck game that is better than MGM's.
When will MGM has $15 minimum S17 game like Blackjack Survey mentioned?
Great
WangSanJose
WangSanJose
Joined: May 2, 2012
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 109
May 26th, 2012 at 2:17:56 AM permalink
I think they are under the same rule? What other things will effect the basic strategy expect decks, S17 or H17, DAS, LS?

For those S17, 28% house edge rules in Vegas, should I split 6&6 against 2?

In Wong's book Professional Blackjack, on page 26, it says to hit.
According to Wizard & blackjackinfo, they say to split.

Wizardofodds:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/
Decks: 4 or more
Soft 17: Dealer Stands
Double After Split: Allowed
Surrender: Not Allowed
Dealer Peak: Dealer peaks for blackjack

Blackjackinfo:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=6+decks&soft17=s17&dbl=all&das=yes&surr=ls&peek=yes

Furthermore, I searched a lot of charts on the internet under this rule, every chart says to split. Was Wong's book wrong?
Great

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