Funbox
Funbox
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 30
Joined: Aug 29, 2011
April 24th, 2012 at 10:33:56 PM permalink
I was dealing blackjack at work today and talking to a customer about the double deck game they have available in the local competing casino. We discussed doubling down on blackjacks when he was dealt one. While my casino gladly lets you make this (stupid) play, he told me that the other casino does not allow it at all. I don't know if it was just in their 6:5 game. He suggested that they don't allow it there because players can make more money by doubling on blackjacks rather than standing on them. $20 for a successful double down sounds more enticing to some players than taking the $12 on a $10 bet. It's probably still a dumb move, but it got me thinking anyway.

What's the EV difference in doubling down on a blackjack in a 3:2 game versus a 6:5 game? Obviously, you shouldn't be playing a 6:5 game to begin with, but if you're forced to, something inside of me tells me that doubling down a "soft 21" in that game is a lot less stupid than in a 3:2 game, mainly due to the 40% difference in the final payout of a successful double down rather than 25% of a 3:2 game.

Can anyone share their opinion on this?
QuadDeuces
QuadDeuces
  • Threads: 25
  • Posts: 370
Joined: Feb 17, 2012
April 24th, 2012 at 10:45:53 PM permalink
forced to?
WongBo
WongBo
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 2126
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
April 24th, 2012 at 10:45:53 PM permalink
both are stupid.
you lose about -1.4% house edge going from a 3:2 game to a 6:5 game
and you lose about -.85% more going from 6:5 to even money.

the only way i would play 6:5 is at gunpoint.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
Funbox
Funbox
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 30
Joined: Aug 29, 2011
April 24th, 2012 at 11:23:19 PM permalink
I'm more interested in a mathematical answer to this question than a bunch of crap about how I shouldn't play 6:5. I wouldn't be caught dead playing a 6:5 game. But that isn't really the point here.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
  • Threads: 210
  • Posts: 11060
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 25th, 2012 at 4:23:35 AM permalink
Ovbiously, it's less stupid on a 6:5 game than a 3:2 game, but it's still stupid. Then again, as you point out, if you've already done the stupid thing of sitting down at a 6:5 table, how much more stupid is it to double down on a BlackJack? I don't know.

I'm fairly sure this question was asked before, but I couldn't find it.

For what it's worth, on the Wizard's BJ page, in the rule variations chart, he states that 6:5 increases the edge 1.39%
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Kellynbnf
Kellynbnf
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 199
Joined: May 5, 2010
April 25th, 2012 at 5:07:03 AM permalink
Quote: Funbox

I was dealing blackjack at work today and talking to a customer about the double deck game they have available in the local competing casino. We discussed doubling down on blackjacks when he was dealt one. While my casino gladly lets you make this (stupid) play, he told me that the other casino does not allow it at all. I don't know if it was just in their 6:5 game. He suggested that they don't allow it there because players can make more money by doubling on blackjacks rather than standing on them. $20 for a successful double down sounds more enticing to some players than taking the $12 on a $10 bet. It's probably still a dumb move, but it got me thinking anyway.

What's the EV difference in doubling down on a blackjack in a 3:2 game versus a 6:5 game? Obviously, you shouldn't be playing a 6:5 game to begin with, but if you're forced to, something inside of me tells me that doubling down a "soft 21" in that game is a lot less stupid than in a 3:2 game, mainly due to the 40% difference in the final payout of a successful double down rather than 25% of a 3:2 game.

Can anyone share their opinion on this?



Even in a 6:5 (or even money for that matter) game, taking the guaranteed payoff is still higher EV than doubling down on 11 (which is essentially what you'd be doing when doubling a BJ) regardless of the upcard. (In the best case, against a dealer 6, the EV of doubling 11 is a little under 0.7 which is still much worse than a 1.0 or 1.2 payoff.)
Funbox
Funbox
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 30
Joined: Aug 29, 2011
April 25th, 2012 at 8:26:50 PM permalink
Excellent answer. Thank you.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 5328
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
April 25th, 2012 at 8:41:25 PM permalink
Quote: QuadDeuces

forced to?




Of course if you prefer not to sit next to the hot babe giving you the eye at the 6/5 table, we understand,

LOL
pacomartin
pacomartin
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
April 27th, 2012 at 5:41:47 PM permalink
Quote: Funbox

Excellent answer. Thank you.



If you think through the question you will see that any time you elect to play a hand, there is always some possibility that you will lose. So EV must logically always be less than one.

The highest EV possible is for a single deck of cards where the dealer must stand on soft 17, and "double after split" is permitted. This game actually has a player advantage of 0.2% playing perfect strategy even without counting cards.


0.787307 is the highest possible EV for a single hand (double on player 6,5 against a dealer 5).

So you should never refuse a blackjack even if blackjacks only play even money. But if you are playing that game you should be sitting poolside and the dealer should be a bronzed hardbody in a bikini (or in a speedo if you are on the other team).
  • Jump to: