Dealer's card falls off the table...

So I was playing a while back in Atlantic City and had $300 bet up 6deck, S17, DAS - not that that matters but - two other players at table - I had been dealt a 10,Q facing a dealer upcard of 3...dealer turns over a 10 for 13 total and, as he draws the card from the shoe, he slips and the card tumbles over the chips and off the table. The pit boss comes over and picks the card up for him and flips it over onto the table for him - the card was an 8 (naturally) and dealer gets a 21 - the people at the table protested that the card left the table and should have been discarded (I am not sure we would have protested if it was a bust card) but, shouldn't that be the players' choice at that point, when a card leaves the table??? The pit boss told me I was out of my mind, called over the floor manager, who basically thought I was joking about having the card discarded - needless to say I left the table in an annoyed mood. Thoughts???

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If only one card fell, I'd say you are out of luck. If it was clear that the next card was that card, it should play.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The floor made the correct call. It makes no difference whether the card hit the floor or not.

I have played in Vegas where this exact thing has happened and the pit boss gave the table the option of withdrawing their hand or staying in. It just surprised me that they would cause people to leave the table who were betting anywhere from $300(me) to $2500(high roller who was at first base) - we both left the table after that. Right or wrong - there is a customer service aspect to it they should have respected...and my casino host certainly let them have an earful when she asked them why she saw me angrily leaving the table...

That card falling off the table reminds me of a private poker game i was once in. I had a Full House and a pocket knife. Lost a big pot to a pair of sixes and a gun.

Even without Buzz' reply, I have to mention a poker rule, along with the reasoning.

If a player's dealt card flies off the table, even if it falls face down, it is treated as an exposed card, and the card is replaced per standard exposed card procedures.

The reason is simple: Once the card is out of view, there is no way of knowing if any other players saw the card.


That is VERY different from a game of BlackJack, where the only secret card is the dealer's one hole card.

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Giving the players the option of canceling their bet or playing on is a nice gesture, and, yeah, I wish more floor people would treat these types of errors in that manner, but there is no rule to support it.

Quote: buzzpaff

That card falling off the table reminds me of a private poker game i was once in. I had a Full House and a pocket knife. Lost a big pot to a pair of sixes and a gun.

I think that was a variation of a line from a movie, maybe with Dean Martin. In the film, it went something like this.

A: "My flush lost to a pair of sixes."
B: "How could that be?"
A: "These sixes had pearl handles."

Sometimes gaming dictates what must be done. Gaming can be anal. How Anal ?
Isle of Capri in Blackhawk had to tape a discard rack to the top of a Digital 21 table.
Because the regs said must have a drop box and discard rack on a Bj table. SERIOUSLY !

Quote: Doc

I think that was a variation of a line from a movie, maybe with Dean Martin. In the film, it went something like this.

A: "My flush lost to a pair of sixes."
B: "How could that be?"
A: "These sixes had pearl handles."

Damn, now I am in serious trouble. Stole from the " rat pack" and Don Rickles is still alive.

I ain't answering no knocks on the front door.

First time Frank walked into middle of Rickle's show, Don said " Sit down, Frank. make yourself at home. Hit somebody. LOL

That's a really tricky situation for the supervisor. If a player is a 1% player playing 50 hands per hour then optioning a player out can easily eat that player's entire EV for the hour. On the other hand, pissing the player off is a great way to ensure it's the last hour they ever play at your casino.

If it were me I would pick up and inspect the card as per normal procedure and place it down in the dealer's hand. The MOMENT someone opened their mouth I'd start optioning. If no one objected I'd leave it in play. That said, I would be flabbergasted if an AC suit ever optioned out anyone for any reason.

I've heard that some jurisdictions' regs mandate how to handle very specific incidents such as this but it usually left up to the casino.

not many casinos care about losing blackjack players.

Why should the card be dead?
Somebody at an advantage and somebody else at a disadvantage because it fell to the floor?
Some dispute about one card fell but the floorperson picked up some other card that was already down there just to win that hand?

Your only real complaint is that it is a losing card for you.

The card is good. Dealer has 21. Dealer wins. Players continue to play with good cheer. Dealer continues to smile while dealing rest of shoe. Card gets examined prior to being put in discard rack.

No harm to anyone. Its not as if it was a die that fell to the floor and then got picked up and called. Its not as if half the table won and half lost or anything.

It was worth a shot, but there's no reason it should be called dead.

At most you could've made a scene and accused them of switching cards and cheating. For them to deal with this as easy as possible it may save your bet but cost you your stay at the casino.

Quote: aceofspades

So I was playing a while back in Atlantic City and had $300 bet up 6deck, S17, DAS - not that that matters but - two other players at table - I had been dealt a 10,Q facing a dealer upcard of 3...dealer turns over a 10 for 13 total and, as he draws the card from the shoe, he slips and the card tumbles over the chips and off the table. The pit boss comes over and picks the card up for him and flips it over onto the table for him - the card was an 8 (naturally) and dealer gets a 21 - the people at the table protested that the card left the table and should have been discarded (I am not sure we would have protested if it was a bust card) but, shouldn't that be the players' choice at that point, when a card leaves the table??? The pit boss told me I was out of my mind, called over the floor manager, who basically thought I was joking about having the card discarded - needless to say I left the table in an annoyed mood. Thoughts???

Don't do it again. As a counter the last thing you want is to give anyone a reason to notice or remember you.

I've seen a card go down many times and can't recall any player complaints. The fact that the card landed a few feet away from where it was supposed to doesn't change the game. They could count all the cards and just your luck it will be during the positive shoe that you waited so long for.

It's true that most joints in AC couldn't care less if you walk even at that level of play.

Quote: NFS

It was worth a shot, but there's no reason it should be called dead.

At most you could've made a scene and accused them of switching cards and cheating. For them to deal with this as easy as possible it may save your bet but cost you your stay at the casino.

Yeah, I thought it was worth a shot - hey $300 is $300

What if you had insisted on looking under the table to make sure that was the only table on the floor? Or requested that the dealer be strip searched ? Hey, the card was out of your sight ! Was this a pitch game where you could touch the cards? Think the same rule would have applied ,if you somehow squeezed the cards and one card flew on the floor, on your side of the table ????

Colorado does not have a specific reference to a card falling off the table, just this :

When any dealing irregularity occurs, the dealer shall notify the pit supervisor, who shall direct the dealer to take the proper corrective action, and shall observe such action being taken. The pit supervisor, and not the dealer, must make all decisions concerning disputed play. If an irregularity occurs which is not described below, the pit supervisor shall determine the most appropriate action which the supervisor believes to be fair and equitable. Such action may include voiding a player’s hand by calling it a push, or voiding the hand for all players at the table by calling every hand a push.