Surrender pair 7's against an ace?

I've seen a few places that say surrender 7,7 against a dealers ace, but no one ever spoke of it so i chalked it up to someone just telling you to do it cause they got a hunch but then i found it in "blackbelt in blackjack"

so im curious why surrender 7,7 against a dealers ace (dealer hit soft 17, mind you)

Also, some places say stand on any 3 card 16 against a dealers 10 (which i have been doing for the longest time) but other places say stand only on 16 agaisnt a 10 if your 16 has a 4 or 5.
so if you can fill me in that be great.


And any other strange rule varations you may think i am unaware of let me know, cause i probably dont know

I personally have never surrendered 7,7 vs. an Ace...but I understand the logic (though I don't have the math to back it up) behind it. It's because you're hoping for another 7 to reach 21, and the fact that you have two of them already makes it more unlikely. Personally, I'd probably "hit" that anyway...but COULD be persuaded by several independent simulations to surrender.

That same logic is behind the "Rule of 4-5" with a three card 16. If your three card 16 has a four or a five, those are cards that you'd love to have in the deck/shoe to reach 20 or 21. I will stand on a three card 16 composed of a 4-5 in a double-deck (or obviously a 3:2 single deck) game... but would probably hit it in an 8 deck shoe game. The six deck game (which i play at the most) is a borderline call for me. lol

According the the Wizard's Blackjack Appendix 9, in almost all cases, it is better to hit a 7-7 against an Ace. The only time you would surrender 7-7 against an Ace is a single deck game where the dealer hits a soft 17. The list below shows all of the expected values based on your cards and the dealer's up card. The expected value of a surrender is -.5. The correct strategy is to hit.

1 deck, H17: -0.523378
2 decks, H17: -0.495371
1 deck, S17: -0.494721
4 decks, H17: -0.481972
8 decks, H17: -0.475418
2 decks, S17: -0.466588
4 decks, S17: -0.453109
8 decks, S17: -0.446511

In the single deck game where the dealer hits soft 17, you would still continue to hit 14 when it is made of anything else but a 7-7.

1 deck, H17, 10-4: -0.468678
1 deck, H17, 9-5: -0.467809
1 deck, H17, 8-6: -0.476332

Quote: Hollywood06

And any other strange rule varations you may think i am unaware of let me know, cause i probably dont know

There are actually many composition dependent variations and many strategies that depend on the number of decks. They all have a very small effect on overall expected value and are usually omitted because they create an additional memory burden.

For example in general you know that you should hit on a 12 against a dealer 3, and you should stand a 12 against a dealer 4. But composition dependent rule is that a 10+2 against a dealer 4 should hit, while a 9+3, 8+4, and 7+5 should stand. It is just that the advantage of 10+2 hitting is a very small advantage over standing, so it is easier to remember just to stand on a 12 against a dealer 4.

See Fine points of basic strategy for some of these rules for exactly how to play your cards immediately after a shuffle in a single deck game where the dealer stands on a soft 17.

i was wondering on that 7-7 surrender because Arnold Snyder says its a smart play, but i dont just do what someone says to do just because their an expert, they make mistakes too...

but its on his website

Source

where it shows surrender(late) it says on 7-7 surrender on 10 in single deck only, and on a A surrender in hit soft 17 multi-deck



And i play multi-deck games more than single deck...ANYONE know of any site or wherever giving rule variations for multi-deck blackjack......

so far all i can find is surrender 8-8 against A on dealer hit soft 17
(possibly) surrender 7-7 on dealer A on dealer hit soft 17
Rule 4-5
surrender 17 on A when dealer hit soft 17

The Wizard's site has all of the composite dependent strategies for all situations. Basically you are looking at situations where all actions available have an expected value of -.5 or less. These are all of the situations to surrender for a single deck game. Of course, the expected returns change for each card played.

S/H Soft 17	Player	Dealer	Best Play	EV
Stand	7-7	10	Stand	-0.509739
Stand	9-7	10	Hit	-0.51201
Stand	9-6	10	Hit	-0.509827
Stand	10-6	A	Hit	-0.50875
Stand	10-6	10	Hit	-0.50693
Stand	10-5	10	Hit	-0.50109
Hit	7-7	A	Hit	-0.52338
Hit	7-7	10	Hit	-0.50974
Hit	10-6	A	Hit	-0.52897
Hit	10-5	A	Hit	-0.52396
Hit	9-7	A	Hit	-0.52078
Hit	9-6	A	Hit	-0.51792
Hit	9-7	10	Hit	-0.51201
Hit	9-6	10	Hit	-0.50983
Hit	10-6	10	Hit	-0.50693
Hit	10-7	A	Stand	-0.50389
Hit	10-5	10	Hit	-0.50109