Poll

10 votes (62.5%)
6 votes (37.5%)

16 members have voted

bobbarker14
bobbarker14
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
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March 18th, 2012 at 10:40:59 PM permalink
Just trying to get an informed opinion on whether it would provide an avenue for tracking certain players they suspect could be counting on each casino visit. Thanks yall!
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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March 19th, 2012 at 12:33:47 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
brianparkes
brianparkes
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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March 19th, 2012 at 1:52:16 AM permalink
They might check your name against a database to see if you are on any of those national (or internal) card counter lists. Or if they ever do figure out you are counting, if they do provide your likeness to any of those sites, they they would have your real name instead of listing you as "unknown". It shouldn't be a risk unless you are getting backed off regularly.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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March 19th, 2012 at 2:43:28 AM permalink
If you are on their radar for something serious they already know more information about you than is on your players club card.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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March 19th, 2012 at 1:23:36 PM permalink
I voted "No" because when I'm betting the "real" money (which for me is $25 units and usually in Vegas) I never play on a card, for fear of burning out my name. My fears are probably unwarranted at my level, but I'm paranoid.

At the 2 local cardrooms where I play, I have cards, but my spread is even lower (generally $5-$100 or sometimes 2x$75). I don't use any cover but basically am trying to fly under the radar while I essentially just practice and keep my skills sharp for peanuts. I have amassed some decent comp dollars at these places that I spend on meals.

I would like to get the comps in Vegas when I play BJ as well...I'm thinking of getting a legal alias, a new ID, and getting player's cards under that name. It's all above-board, but if you get 86'd and tracked in Griffen/OSN/etc., at least they don't have your real name...
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
LonesomeGambler
LonesomeGambler
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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March 19th, 2012 at 2:49:54 PM permalink
Yes, players cards are one of the primary ways that casinos can track players, including advantage players.

Consider this: You run into a really hot shoe at NYNY in Vegas and spread to your max bet early on, gaining the attention of several floorpersons and the pit boss. You get very lucky during this shoe and win an amount that prompts an automatic tape review and subsequent skills check. The skills check results in a determination that you are a strong card counter and that you are to be backed-off during your next visit.

Scenario A: You played the session rated. The casino not only knows who you are, they can also review tapes of other sessions you played (to provide a larger sample size for a skills check). Your card is flagged, so the next time it gets swiped when you sit at a table, you'll get a tap on the shoulder. You can try and use it at the Beau Rivage in Biloxi, or the MGM Grand in Detroit, or any number of other MGM-affiliated casino and your identity will be toast.

Scenario B: You played unrated. The casino does not know who you are, can not cross-reference your play with previous sessions, can not flyer you to other casinos (within the chain network or to outside services), can not look up your name in surveillance network databases, and can not flag you for a back-off next time you play a session on a different shift, or at a different casino, etc.
ajemeister
ajemeister
Joined: Mar 20, 2012
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March 23rd, 2012 at 7:06:46 AM permalink
Quote: LonesomeGambler

Yes, players cards are one of the primary ways that casinos can track players, including advantage players.

Consider this: You run into a really hot shoe at NYNY in Vegas and spread to your max bet early on, gaining the attention of several floorpersons and the pit boss. You get very lucky during this shoe and win an amount that prompts an automatic tape review and subsequent skills check. The skills check results in a determination that you are a strong card counter and that you are to be backed-off during your next visit.

Scenario A: You played the session rated. The casino not only knows who you are, they can also review tapes of other sessions you played (to provide a larger sample size for a skills check). Your card is flagged, so the next time it gets swiped when you sit at a table, you'll get a tap on the shoulder. You can try and use it at the Beau Rivage in Biloxi, or the MGM Grand in Detroit, or any number of other MGM-affiliated casino and your identity will be toast.

Scenario B: You played unrated. The casino does not know who you are, can not cross-reference your play with previous sessions, can not flyer you to other casinos (within the chain network or to outside services), can not look up your name in surveillance network databases, and can not flag you for a back-off next time you play a session on a different shift, or at a different casino, etc.



What level are we talking about? I'm sure that no one who bets 5-25 as a minimum would have to worry about this... winning 1000 or 2000 is a drop in the bucket compared to those who play 50+ minimum. I don't think you're going to raise too many flags sitting at a low table
TomG
TomG
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March 23rd, 2012 at 7:42:25 AM permalink
Quote: LonesomeGambler

Consider this: You run into a really hot shoe at NYNY in Vegas and spread to your max bet early on, gaining the attention of several floorpersons and the pit boss. You get very lucky during this shoe and win an amount that prompts an automatic tape review and subsequent skills check. The skills check results in a determination that you are a strong card counter and that you are to be backed-off during your next visit.



Why care about getting backed-off if you've won? You got the money. Even for very good counters, the game is far closer to minimum wage than an ATM machine. I would look at it as McDonalds offering a 20-year-old a severance package (and if you lose big in a high count, at least your meals, rooms and possibly even gas gets covered)

Spreading between green and black casinos might start to sweat, but they will go through a lot of stuff before an ultimate ban: early shuffle, raise the minimums, refuse to let you spread

My understanding from people who have done it for enough hours and enough years: Up to $200 bets the worst that will happen is they'll ask to leave just for that day and take away any points. Up to $500 and they might not want any of your action on the game, but that's also when the rooms, meals, free-play can actually start adding nicely to your edge

For myself, I like to keep it between $5 and $20, break-even and then let one buffet pass cover all nutritional requirements for at least 24 hours. An occasional free-play or match-play in the mail. If I ever feel like gambling I'll even buy in for $200, flat bet reds until the count is sky high and shove all in. Some people know what is going on, but act polite, don't stiff on tips and they don't really care

Get caught in team play and they won't ever let you sit down to play again
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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March 23rd, 2012 at 8:26:53 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
1BB
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
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March 23rd, 2012 at 9:01:24 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Why care about getting backed-off if you've won? You got the money. Even for very good counters, the game is far closer to minimum wage than an ATM machine. I would look at it as McDonalds offering a 20-year-old a severance package (and if you lose big in a high count, at least your meals, rooms and possibly even gas gets covered)

Spreading between green and black casinos might start to sweat, but they will go through a lot of stuff before an ultimate ban: early shuffle, raise the minimums, refuse to let you spread

My understanding from people who have done it for enough hours and enough years: Up to $200 bets the worst that will happen is they'll ask to leave just for that day and take away any points. Up to $500 and they might not want any of your action on the game, but that's also when the rooms, meals, free-play can actually start adding nicely to your edge

For myself, I like to keep it between $5 and $20, break-even and then let one buffet pass cover all nutritional requirements for at least 24 hours. An occasional free-play or match-play in the mail. If I ever feel like gambling I'll even buy in for $200, flat bet reds until the count is sky high and shove all in. Some people know what is going on, but act polite, don't stiff on tips and they don't really care

Good card counters make a percentage of the total amount of money they bet. You can't lump all counters together by saying they make minimum wage.

Many backoffs come without warning these days and it will not be just for the day. If you were playing rated, try giving your card the next day and see what happens.

Get caught in team play and they won't ever let you sit down to play again

Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi

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