Worst plays you've ever witnessed
Anyway. he was dealt a hard twenty on one of his minimum wagers and signalled a hit. The dealer missed it at first, and then the older gent pulled him and insisted on another card on his twenty There was almost a minute of exchanges between him and the dealer (in German) before the dealer dealt him his third card and busted his hand. It's common there to have a hefty number of bets behind on each box, and I wonder it he would have done it if he'd had two or three other people's money on the line?
But the thing that was most unbelievable about this was that the game was dealt from the ubiquitous ShuffleMaster one-2-six? Bearing in mind how they function, how on earth can you track sequences of cards dealt from one of those with any confidence? Answers on a postcard please.
Quote: NFSShe should've split. But then again I guess that's what makes this the worst play you've ever witnessed. LOL.
Shes a tight wad.
Quote: GoetheSome years back I was playing a few hands of BJ in the beautiful gaming room of the casino in Baden-Baden, Germany. An older gentleman who was sitting at third base was playing three boxes - two at the table minimum and one with a hefty pile of jetons. I realised pretty quickly he was attempting some sort of advantage play by tracking sequences of key cards.
Anyway. he was dealt a hard twenty on one of his minimum wagers and signalled a hit. The dealer missed it at first, and then the older gent pulled him and insisted on another card on his twenty There was almost a minute of exchanges between him and the dealer (in German) before the dealer dealt him his third card and busted his hand. It's common there to have a hefty number of bets behind on each box, and I wonder it he would have done it if he'd had two or three other people's money on the line?
But the thing that was most unbelievable about this was that the game was dealt from the ubiquitous ShuffleMaster one-2-six? Bearing in mind how they function, how on earth can you track sequences of cards dealt from one of those with any confidence? Answers on a postcard please.
If it was a CSM, he was probably playing some kind of superstitious "eat the bust card for my next hand" kind of thing, that isn't actually an advantage play. AFAIK hole carding is the only kind of advantage play against a CSM game. And since this was in Europe, I'm assuming it was ENHC. Although I guess he could be getting next-card info somehow, which would explain hitting a 20 if you didn't want the next card on your big hand.
This is my favorite line at a black jack table. I tell the idiot who said it " what is the order of the cards? tell me when Im getting a blackjack before it happens I have a few bucks in my pocket I can bet! Oh? you cant tell me? then STFU and play cards."
Quote: chefphydeauxA player to his left gets upset and says he "threw off the order of the deck" by making this play.
This is my favorite line at a black jack table. I tell the idiot who said it " what is the order of the cards? tell me when Im getting a blackjack before it happens I have a few bucks in my pocket I can bet! Oh? you cant tell me? then STFU and play cards."
I was about to say that. When I start losing I will do that even if I am playing a csm. 75-90% of the time it works
Bearing in mind the way that the 1-2-6 functions, I think there is probably some degree of "clumping effect", ie more than one or two cards remain together and are dumped into one of the carousel slots at anyone time, and that these will stay together when they're in turn dropped into the output ramp, but endeavouring to track such clumps will come with a big (financial) health warning. There's also definitely latency there (despite what Shufflemaster Inc might say) which means that the six decks (or whatever) are not subject to a completely random shuffle across all 52 x whatever cards. Still the re-ordering of the cards that it does achieve is enough to keep the advantage players at bay . . . .
3) Some young college looking kid has a Hard 15 against a Dealer 6 and says HIT. Instantly, myself and 2 others say "NO!" and the dealer pauses to ask again. The dope still goes HIT and we just grunt disapprovingly, while the dealer tries to convince this moron to STAY. He refuses and says HIT a third time, the dealer gives us a "sorry" look and gives him a 7, effectively busting his 15. Dealer turns up a 10 for 16, and catches a 4! I know we've all seen this story before, but when EVERYONE at the table AND the dealer are telling you NOT to take a card several times, you have to be a real piece of sheeit to still take it.
2) Playing Spanish 21, guy on the first chair has 2 hands of Hard 12 and Hard 14 against a Dealer 2. He doubles down the 12(fine, less chance to bust in Sp. 21 and book says to take a card with 12 against 2) he gets an 8! Then he decides to push his luck and double on the HARD 14? Amazingly, he gets a 5, much to my chagrin(because the 5 was essentially MY card). I am playing Anchor and also have a 12 against the Dealer's 2, so naturally I take a card and get an Ace and opt to stand. The dealer turns up a Face card and catches a 9 for 21. The guy starts blaming ME for the loss saying I shouldn't have taken the card. Really? You're the buffoon who doubled a HARD 14 against a 2, got lucky it didn't bust and then chastise ME for hitting a 12 against a 2? I immediately retorted back "I'm not the idiot who doubled a 14 against a 2" But the audacity of someone to play foolishly and then blame someone who played by the book is absurd. The next card out was also a 9, so the dealer would've made 21 even if I hit 13 against a 2.
1) I have 20 against a dealer 3, I of course stay. The old guy to my left has A-A and reaches for money, and the dealer divides his Aces up anticipating a split. The guy puts his hand up to signal STOP and proceeds to say the words that haunted me all night... "ONE card!" Everyone looked at this old imbecile in disbelief. Is he really going against the easiest move of splitting aces and DOUBLING DOWN on TWO ACES??? The dealer asked him "Are you sure?" He confidently smirks, "Yup!" Dealer deals him ONE card, and wouldn't ya know it's a picture card!!! Dealer showing a 3, proceeds to turn up a 10 and catch... an 8! Never have I uttered the words "Feckin Moron" so many times in one minute and the others added their own variations! Oh and the next card, was in fact a Picture Card!!!
Quote: Gambit55Have too many horror stories to re-count all of them. Will just list the Top 3!
3) Some young college looking kid has a Hard 15 against a Dealer 6 and says HIT.
2) Playing Spanish 21, guy on the first chair has 2 hands of Hard 12 and Hard 14 against a Dealer 2. He doubles down the 12(fine, less chance to bust in Sp. 21 and book says to take a card with 12 against 2) he gets an 8! Then he decides to push his luck and double on the HARD 14? Amazingly, he gets a 5, much to my chagrin(because the 5 was essentially MY card).
1) Oh and the next card, was in fact a Picture Card!!!
3) It's the wrong play, but you shouldn't care. He could've helped or hurt you.
2) you are supposed to hit 14 vs 2 in S21. If he wants to double, that's his money. It was very odd for him to blame you for hitting your 12 after he did. I don't know if I could have said anything reasonable.
1) Again, you shouldn't care what he does. What comes out of the shoe next is random. Again, he could've helped or hurt you.
Quote: Gambit55Have too many horror stories to re-count all of them. Will just list the Top 3!
3) Some young college looking kid has a Hard 15 against a Dealer 6 and says HIT. Instantly, myself and 2 others say "NO!" and the dealer pauses to ask again. The dope still goes HIT and we just grunt disapprovingly, while the dealer tries to convince this moron to STAY. He refuses and says HIT a third time, the dealer gives us a "sorry" look and gives him a 7, effectively busting his 15. Dealer turns up a 10 for 16, and catches a 4! I know we've all seen this story before, but when EVERYONE at the table AND the dealer are telling you NOT to take a card several times, you have to be a real piece of sheeit to still take it.
2) Playing Spanish 21, guy on the first chair has 2 hands of Hard 12 and Hard 14 against a Dealer 2. He doubles down the 12(fine, less chance to bust in Sp. 21 and book says to take a card with 12 against 2) he gets an 8! Then he decides to push his luck and double on the HARD 14? Amazingly, he gets a 5, much to my chagrin(because the 5 was essentially MY card). I am playing Anchor and also have a 12 against the Dealer's 2, so naturally I take a card and get an Ace and opt to stand. The dealer turns up a Face card and catches a 9 for 21. The guy starts blaming ME for the loss saying I shouldn't have taken the card. Really? You're the buffoon who doubled a HARD 14 against a 2, got lucky it didn't bust and then chastise ME for hitting a 12 against a 2? I immediately retorted back "I'm not the idiot who doubled a 14 against a 2" But the audacity of someone to play foolishly and then blame someone who played by the book is absurd. The next card out was also a 9, so the dealer would've made 21 even if I hit 13 against a 2.
1) I have 20 against a dealer 3, I of course stay. The old guy to my left has A-A and reaches for money, and the dealer divides his Aces up anticipating a split. The guy puts his hand up to signal STOP and proceeds to say the words that haunted me all night... "ONE card!" Everyone looked at this old imbecile in disbelief. Is he really going against the easiest move of splitting aces and DOUBLING DOWN on TWO ACES??? The dealer asked him "Are you sure?" He confidently smirks, "Yup!" Dealer deals him ONE card, and wouldn't ya know it's a picture card!!! Dealer showing a 3, proceeds to turn up a 10 and catch... an 8! Never have I uttered the words "Feckin Moron" so many times in one minute and the others added their own variations! Oh and the next card, was in fact a Picture Card!!!
Ah...the mob mentality. Had the dealer broken you guys would have been patting the old man on the back.
The guy in Spanish 21 was playing "normally" and standing on 13's and 14's against 2-6 the whole time. Only that hand did he decide to play wreckless and cost himself 4 times his money, when he could have simply won both hands with the initial bets.
You can say what you want about them taking a bust card not being significant to the shoe. But the fact is, the shoe has now changed and many times it goes to hell when people start making those crazy moves.
I always say, "If the dealer beats us, so be it. But don't HELP them do it with stupid moves."
Quote: Gambit55
You can say what you want about them taking a bust card not being significant to the shoe. But the fact is, the shoe has now changed and many times it goes to hell when people start making those crazy moves.
Ok, I want to say, "You sir, believe a myth."
The shoe "changes" everytime anyone takes a card. You don't know what's coming next, right? So you use basic strategy to make the most mathematically informed decision, right? What do you know after someone makes a right play that you don't when they make the wrong one? If basic strategy was going to give you the best play when you didn't know what card was next, how has that changed now that you STILL don't know what card is next?
The only way to see if another players play has helped or hurt you is in retrospect and I think you'd find if you kept a log that regardless of the correctness of the other players play it helps you and hurts you about the same over the long run. Which, of course, is just another way of saying that it makes no difference whatsoever.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyOk, I want to say, "You sir, believe a myth."
The shoe "changes" everytime anyone takes a card. You don't know what's coming next, right? So you use basic strategy to make the most mathematically informed decision, right? What do you know after someone makes a right play that you don't when they make the wrong one? If basic strategy was going to give you the best play when you didn't know what card was next, how has that changed now that you STILL don't know what card is next?
The only way to see if another players play has helped or hurt you is in retrospect and I think you'd find if you kept a log that regardless of the correctness of the other players play it helps you and hurts you about the same over the long run. Which, of course, is just another way of saying that it makes no difference whatsoever.
They've actually runs loads of simulations on the issue of lousy players and found that it has no impact. The reason being they are just as likely to take a card that could help as one that could hurt the dealer. The Wizard talks about this issue in this YouTube video at 9:05.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkUsN-GNCSY
Gambit55, those are all bad moves, but they're not hurting you at all. It's almost as likely that a bad player will "save" you as the dealer. You should be losing well over 50% of hands anyway (doubles and blackjacks making up most of the difference), and more in Spanish, no matter how the other players play.
Quote: Gambit55You can say what you want about them taking a bust card not being significant to the shoe. But the fact is, the shoe has now changed and many times it goes to hell when people start making those crazy moves.
Do you also blame other people for betting on black after a sequence of 7 reds in roulette, because the "obvious" move would be to bet red again ?
If you ever want to survive in a world of chance, accept the simple fact that any single specific result has no meaning.
If it is meaningfull to you, you are way overbetting your risk profile.
Quote: MangoJDo you also blame other people for betting on black after a sequence of 7 reds in roulette, because the "obvious" move would be to bet red again ?
If you ever want to survive in a world of chance, accept the simple fact that any single specific result has no meaning.
If it is meaningfull to you, you are way overbetting your risk profile.
You're comparing Apples to Oranges. Betting on a spinning wheel has no relation to drawing EXTRA cards from a shoe that is now altered, so the point is moot.
I get what some of you are saying, "How do you know the dealer will break showing a 5 or 6 as opposed to a 9 or 10" Fact is, dealers seem to be catching BS low cards on 15 and 16 more than ever!
But is it not MUCH easier to play against a dealer who's up card is usually a low 4,5, or 6? Certainly relieves tension at the table, makes Doubling Down and splitting a no-brainer, but certainly not guaranteed winners. The point is to have fun and it's no fun when some dope plays backwards even when people are loudly telling them not to. And even more so when the end result would be a winning hand on that draw AND then a subsequent low card for the dealer the next hand, boosting morale, keeping people calm and collected, and ultimately leading to a more enjoyable time...win or lose!
However, I'll simplify it. If someone pulls a card when they shouldn't ie: 15 against a 6, and the dealer's hole card is a 10. Regardless the outcome of the hand, the shoe is in fact now ALTERED. What would have been the dealer's up card, has now moved to the anchor(providing nobody joins or leaves the table). No debating that.
What would have been the first chair's 2nd card is now the dealer's Up card. This is the principle of variable change, no disputing it. And it's certainly a more pleasant table when the dealer has low up cards as opposed to 9's, 10's and Aces because someone pulled a card when they should not have.
The whole point of this thread is to share the Worst moves you've seen or done. I've done just that and if I prevented someone from making the same mistake, then hooray! There's no point in playing Devil's advocate to defend someone you don't even know.
And playing more blackjack in a day than someone is not exactly something to be proud of and may be the reason you are defending said Lunatics, but to each their own.
I can understand making an honest mistake, but intentionally going against the table's wishes out of sheer stupidity is inexcusable. Even if the erratic play ends up saving the table, it puts everyone on Edge and makes for a lousy atmosphere.
And before you say, well "go somewhere else" or "change tables", it's a sad fact that these types of players are now the majority occupying casinos with the advent of $1 blackjack. They can't get in at that table, so they filter over into the $10 and $15 spots. Truly a sad state when they've taken over & ruined such a fun game!
I did a bad play once when I got tired, it was late at night, and I had a couple of drinks. I was dealt a 20 and by mistake I signaled for another card and I pulled an ace! After that I just went up to my room and got good night's sleep. lol.
Quote: Gambit55Right, but shouldn't someone who is NOT counting and has little knowledge of BJ strategy take the advice of others at the table? Especially if the DEALER is telling them not to do it? I dunno about you, but I'd rather be with the table than against them.
I can understand making an honest mistake, but intentionally going against the table's wishes out of sheer stupidity is inexcusable. Even if the erratic play ends up saving the table, it puts everyone on Edge and makes for a lousy atmosphere.
And before you say, well "go somewhere else" or "change tables", it's a sad fact that these types of players are now the majority occupying casinos with the advent of $1 blackjack. They can't get in at that table, so they filter over into the $10 and $15 spots. Truly a sad state when they've taken over & ruined such a fun game!
BTW, the way I handle players who try to tell me what to do is I say "I'll listen to Ed Thorp before I listen to anybody!" That usually gets a few laughs at the table too.
As far as being with table or against it I'd rather play the odds. Besides most dealers do NOT know how to play very well. I saw a dealer/pit from a place I go to in Reno and she was doubling down on a seven or something vs a dealer's 10! I got to say that dealers are some of the worst players I've seen.
His first card, was an Ace, he proceeded to double that down and got a 10. His 2nd hand was a 4, he doubles that and gets a 7!
Sure enough the dealer showing a 4, turns up an 8 and catches a 6. So he turned a Doubled down 21 that would've won, into two double down 16's that lost!
Classic!
Quote: Gambit55Right, but shouldn't someone who is NOT counting and has little knowledge of BJ strategy take the advice of others at the table? Especially if the DEALER is telling them not to do it? I dunno about you, but I'd rather be with the table than against them.
I can understand making an honest mistake, but intentionally going against the table's wishes out of sheer stupidity is inexcusable. Even if the erratic play ends up saving the table, it puts everyone on Edge and makes for a lousy atmosphere.
And before you say, well "go somewhere else" or "change tables", it's a sad fact that these types of players are now the majority occupying casinos with the advent of $1 blackjack. They can't get in at that table, so they filter over into the $10 and $15 spots. Truly a sad state when they've taken over & ruined such a fun game!
Gambit, we need bad players. Who do you think pays for the good players?
I'd love for you to sit at my table and witness my index play. Did somebody say split 10s?
Quote: 1BBGambit, we need bad players. Who do you think pays for the good players?
I'd love for you to sit at my table and witness my index play. Did somebody say split 10s?
Then go on down to Trump Plaza in AC. You'll have em up to your armpits!
Had a guy who refused to hit A-4 against a 10, and sure enough two 8's followed!
Quote: 1BBGambit, we need bad players. Who do you think pays for the good players?
I'd love for you to sit at my table and witness my index play. Did somebody say split 10s?
I do that and love to see the looks on people's faces. BTW the indices are 6 - 5 - 4 against a dealer's 4 - 5 - 6.
BTW something I do that some people consider a bad play is I hit a soft 18 against a 9, 10 or Ace. I've had people explode at that table. One guy was told to essentially shut up by the PC.
Quote: BigJerI do that and love to see the looks on people's faces. BTW the indices are 6 - 5 - 4 against a dealer's 4 - 5 - 6.
BTW something I do that some people consider a bad play is I hit a soft 18 against a 9, 10 or Ace. I've had people explode at that table. One guy was told to essentially shut up by the PC.
While I don't normally do it, I understand the logic in pulling in that situation. I'll never chastise someone for doing that because let's face it, you're damned if you do and you're damned if ya don't!
Quote: Gambit55Then go on down to Trump Plaza in AC. You'll have em up to your armpits!
Had a guy who refused to hit A-4 against a 10, and sure enough two 8's followed!
There's part of the problem. Trump Plaza hits soft 17 and the penetration is terrible making that game unplayable from a counting perspective. The point is that poor play does even out. Play your hand against the dealer and don't worry about anyone else. Yes, I know it's not easy.
The better games in AC right now are at Borgata and Revel.
Also I do get looks when DD a S18 against a 2 - 6.
Quote: 1BBThere's part of the problem. Trump Plaza hits soft 17 and the penetration is terrible making that game unplayable from a counting perspective. The point is that poor play does even out. Play your hand against the dealer and don't worry about anyone else. Yes, I know it's not easy.
The better games in AC right now are at Borgata and Revel.
You know play that other players think is a bad play? When you split 9,9 against a 2 - 6 and 8 - 9. I will split them against an Ace at TC1 also. Once when I was coloring up one player said to another "I'm so glad he's leaving." Little do they know ......
Quote: 1BBThere's part of the problem. Trump Plaza hits soft 17 and the penetration is terrible making that game unplayable from a counting perspective. The point is that poor play does even out. Play your hand against the dealer and don't worry about anyone else. Yes, I know it's not easy.
The better games in AC right now are at Borgata and Revel.
They actually have specific tables where they don't hit S 17, those coincidentally don't have the gimmicks like Lucky Ladies as well.
Problem with Borgata for me is lack of bus traffic to and from. Even Jitney service is lacking and doesn't help my schedule. I have to make do with the spots I can commute to, but I might try Revel this weekend.
Quote: Gambit55They actually have specific tables where they don't hit S 17, those coincidentally don't have the gimmicks like Lucky Ladies as well.
Problem with Borgata for me is lack of bus traffic to and from. Even Jitney service is lacking and doesn't help my schedule. I have to make do with the spots I can commute to, but I might try Revel this weekend.
G55,
Could you give us a report when you get back on what the conditions were please? Especially what it was like at the low limit tables? For example are they all h17? Do you ever get "heat" at the place and if so what was the heat level like?
Quote: BigJerYou know play that other players think is a bad play? When you split 9,9 against a 2 - 6 and 8 - 9. I will split them against an Ace at TC1 also. Once when I was coloring up one player said to another "I'm so glad he's leaving." Little do they know ......
Very true Jer, I had 9-9 against a Five and saw nobody else could take a card so I opted to split.
I could see the disapproving eyes and felt the pressure not to. But knew this had to be done for many reasons.
Ended up taking TWO 6's on the 9's, the dealer turns up a 10 and BUSTS. Which resulted in "thank yous" and "good split" remarks from the table, which I just smirked and collected my winnings.
Quote: BigJerI read some where that it goes back to against a dealer's 10 - for example - a hard 18 is still at a 20% disadvantage. But if you hit the S18 then you lose 5 hands LESS in 1000 than if you don't hit. So again you would only hit to lose less.
Also I do get looks when DD a S18 against a 2 - 6.
Both are basic strategy WOO
Have you ever played at the Revel? What was it like there especially for lower limit players? Was there heat? Etc.?
Quote: bigfoot66WOO is shorthand for Wizard of Odds.
Thanks man. lol.
He never looked down to see the card........he knew he had 21.
Quote: BigJer1BB,
Have you ever played at the Revel? What was it like there especially for lower limit players? Was there heat? Etc.?
I played there twice with a fairly large spread to compensate for the lack of surrender. I played unrated and felt no heat from the floor despite hitting them hard. My longest session was just over 30 minutes which was just right for the way I played.
There are 6 deck games with S17 and 70% penetration or slightly less in some cases. If you stay too long or get too cute I've been told they will shuffle on you just like every other casino in town. There were $10 and $15 minimums at these games into the early evening.
Quote: 1BBI played there twice with a fairly large spread to compensate for the lack of surrender. I played unrated and felt no heat from the floor despite hitting them hard. My longest session was just over 30 minutes which was just right for the way I played.
There are 6 deck games with S17 and 70% penetration or slightly less in some cases. If you stay too long or get too cute I've been told they will shuffle on you just like every other casino in town. There were $10 and $15 minimums at these games into the early evening.
At some point I'm going to make a trip to AC. I heard they can't back off counters but they can do other things like shuffle up and flat bet you. That pen on the 6D is not that bad.
But the session only lasted for 30 minutes? Wow. in Reno you can play for longer than that and as long as you don't too much you can pretty much play for as long as you want. This is except Harrah's which I can tell you about in a PM.
Quote: seviayThat definitely beats the worst I've seen, but I was at a table where a guy kept doubling down on 12/13 against dealer 10s, but he would stay on things like 15, 16, and soft 17 against a dealer 10. We never could figure out what he was doing, just had to hope he would bust out and leave. Doubling on 15 is amazing, even more so with a big bet out. Love it
Was this place in California? I played at a table with a guy that was doing that.
Quote: BigJerBTW one play that is considered bad by some players is if you DD on a S19 v 6 in a H17 game. I had people shake their heads, etc. Anyways back to other players.
Haha I did that this morning on a S17 game. Nothing new there.
