Rules after Misdeal

I was playing European BJ on Tenerife.
Dealer had a 6 and I had 22 (sat on 2nd last spot)
A player early on table 12 and said "stand," but dealer gave her a card (Q). The dealer agreed that he did a mistake, and she kept her 12.

Rest of players before me did stand, and it was my turn.
The Q was not burned and i choosed to stand at 4 as dealer would get 16. (last player had 19)

Shouldnt the card be burned in this case? The game was "destroyed" for me, even i had an advantage as dealer was likely to bust. (nex card was a 3 btw, so most of table lost)

The queen was the next card to be played and you had the advantage of knowing that. Most casinos will not burn the card. Could you have split the 2s?

I could do what i want. But standing have to be best (dealer have a 8/13 chance to bust)
(Expected return of 1.23 units.)
Value of the first hand after splitting would be -0.15, and i dont think the value of the other hand would compensate that difference.

In the UK it's written the card is the next one out. You can take advantage of it and standing on 2-2 is totally reasonable thing to do. I have on occasions done it, but sometimes when it isn't obvious which is better, just do what I would have done in the first place. I did once hear that the dealer had a 7-up (no 2nd card UK) and no-one wanted to take the ten - if I was ever in that situation (12-16) on end box I would offer to sell my box or just stand (muttering rude words that they didn't give me a chance to win)!

A lot of places will burn it and ask each individual player if they want out of the hand ( letting you take your bet back). Other places will play it. Steering a 10 to the dealer dshowing a 6 is a strong EV positive play.

Dealer mistakes will always be part of the game and I have found that the majority of them are remedied to the players' satisfaction.

This particular situation does not call for a player opt out or for the burning of a card. The players had the advantage of knowing the next card, allowing them to adjust their play accordingly. I've doubled a hard 16 and surrendered a 12 after gaining that information. The sequence of the cards wasn't changed so why should anything additional be done?

Let's say the dealer forgot to give you a second card and the next player got it. The sequence has now been changed and they will not back up that card. Players will be allowed to opt out of the hand which is fair. The only time a card is burned after a dealer's mistake is at the end of a hand. If he mistakenly hits a hard 17, the card he pulled will be burned rather than go to first base.

Torghatten, I momentarily forgot that you were playing ENHC. Regardless of the outcome, you made a great heads up play!

OK guys .... how would the casino handle this... maybe Dan or the Wiz knows... Player 1 is betting $1000 ..... has 17.... Player 2 is betting $25 and has 20, and dealer accidentally hits him with a 5..... Player 3 also betting $25 has 16 and dealer is showing a 9. It is obviously in player 3's advantage to take the 5 for 21. Player 1 throws $50 across the table and tells player 3 to stand. You as the dealer or pit boss do what?

OT, but I recently had a dealer flip both her cards over accidentally, showing everyone that she had two face cards. Play was then continued, and it was really funny seeing/hearing peoples reactions (who just came over) when everyone was hitting their hard 18s and 19s. :)

Quote: SOOPOO

OK guys .... how would the casino handle this... maybe Dan or the Wiz knows... Player 1 is betting $1000 ..... has 17.... Player 2 is betting $25 and has 20, and dealer accidentally hits him with a 5..... Player 3 also betting $25 has 16 and dealer is showing a 9. It is obviously in player 3's advantage to take the 5 for 21. Player 1 throws $50 across the table and tells player 3 to stand. You as the dealer or pit boss do what?

Other than verifying that the 5 is the next card to be played they stay out of it. If I were player 3 I would decline player one's offer and double down.

<DELETED>

In response to SOOPOO.

If I was Player 3, I would tell Player 1 that's he's being an idiot and that asking the dealer to take a 5 is a VERY STUPID play.

If Player 3 takes the deal and stands, the dealer will take a 5 if he has under 17. The only way that Player 1 can win in that scenario is if the dealer has a 2 under his hand, pulls the 5, and then pulls a 6 or higher to bust.

- According to Wizards BJ Appendix 5, S17, the EV of 17 on 9 is -$423.20 (on $1,000 bet).
- The EV for player 1 offering the deal and Player 3 taking it is: $1,000 * (1/13 * 8/13) - $1000 * (10/13) - $,1000 x (1/13 * 4/13)
- $50 (money paid to Player 3). = -$795.56.

So, if Player 3 takes the deal, Player 1 will lose an extra $372.36, on average.

But for Player 3, his EV for not taking the deal is $50 x (11/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3) + $50 x (1/13) x (1/13) (Dealer has 2, pulls a 5 + 5) = $42.60.
If Player 3 takes the deal, his EV is 50 - $25 x (12/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3) - $25 x (1/13) x (5/13) (Dealer has 2, takes a A - 5 to make hand) = $26.18.

So Player 3 should call Player 1 an idiot, explain the logic, and tell him to go screw himself if he gets mad.

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If I am the house then, I couldn't do anything about the deal anyway but I would EMPHATICALLY take that action.

Quote: boymimbo

In response to SOOPOO.

If I was Player 3, I would tell Player 1 that's he's being an idiot and that asking the dealer to take a 5 is a VERY STUPID play.

If Player 3 takes the deal and stands, the dealer will take a 5 if he has under 17. The only way that Player 1 can win in that scenario is if the dealer has a 2 under his hand, pulls the 5, and then pulls a 6 or higher to bust.

- According to Wizards BJ Appendix 5, S17, the EV of 17 on 9 is -$423.20 (on $1,000 bet).
- The EV for player 1 offering the deal and Player 3 taking it is: $1,000 * (1/13 * 8/13) - $1000 * (10/13) - $,1000 x (1/13 * 4/13)
- $50 (money paid to Player 3). = -$795.56.

So, if Player 3 takes the deal, Player 1 will lose an extra $372.36, on average.

But for Player 3, his EV for not taking the deal is $50 x (11/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3) + $50 x (1/13) x (1/13) (Dealer has 2, pulls a 5 + 5) = $42.60.
If Player 3 takes the deal, his EV is 50 - $25 x (12/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3) - $25 x (1/13) x (5/13) (Dealer has 2, takes a A - 5 to make hand) = $26.18.

So Player 3 should call Player 1 an idiot, explain the logic, and tell him to go screw himself if he gets mad.

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If I am the house then, I couldn't do anything about the deal anyway but I would EMPHATICALLY take that action.

I think that this is still Euro-no hole card ... so the 5 would give the dealer 14..

Quote: 1BB

Other than verifying that the 5 is the next card to be played they stay out of it. If I were player 3 I would decline player one's offer and double down.

An offer of $100 from Player 1 would be appropriate, because player 3 would get exactly what would be won (and risked) with the very comfortable 21 double down, plus he be freerolling his $25 bet with a 16 against a dealer 14 (and he gets to keep the $25 he would have thrown onto the felt for the double down...so maybe $75 is the correct offer...)

Quote: cclub79

I think that this is still Euro-no hole card ... so the 5 would give the dealer 14..

Correct, this is the scenario I was describing. Its too bad boymim spent so much time discussing something else....

I hate having to explain the logic on my hitting my A7 against the dealers T all the time, lol. A lot of people who don't even know basic strategy at the tables, love to tell everyone else how to play their hands, lol.

Quote: EdgeLooker

I hate having to explain the logic on my hitting my A7 against the dealers T all the time, lol. A lot of people who don't even know basic strategy at the tables, love to tell everyone else how to play their hands, lol.

When I played at the Greenbrier two years ago, the folks at the table were discussing reasons for various bets -- mathematics, emotions, etc. On one hand, the player to my left (who was betting a bunch more than I was but didn't seem to really understand the game) received an A-7 vs. a dealer face card and said, "Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that?" I didn't want to act as if I were telling him what to do, so I asked whether he wanted to know what the mathematicians would say. He indicated he would, so I replied, "They would say to hit." When he was dealt a 3, he was happy, and I was relieved that I didn't have to explain or leave.

I know many here say they feel uncomfortable giving any advice, which is why I limit mine to (only when asked 'what am i supposed to do?!'): "The book says ____." Not that any of those amateur players know what any "book" is or why, but it makes it simple. I think I took it from the average response from most dealers. (Many say nothing, many are chatty, but median is "The book says _____." Never any more than that, and it's never gotten me into any trouble if the player loses...

Ah, European Blackjack. I'll shut up then.