black jack with automatic shuffler

If the shoe is going bad for the house with the shuffle master shuffler, would it help if the dealer collect the cards after 6 or 7 hands played or in random order or just differently than regular house procedure(my personal personal opinion is that it does not matter)

If you'd like to rephrase the question maybe someone could take a stab at it. In the mean time, those machines were installed for a reason and collecting the cards as you describe would negate that reason.

Your personal opinion is correct.

Will you increase the chances for the house to win ( house edge) on BJ with continuous shuffler if you place the cards in the shuffler after random number of hands e.g in the begging every third hand will go in to the machine and if the player is on the winning streak collect the cards for 6 -7 hands and them put them in the shuffler.

Yes, if most of the discards were low and no, if they were mostly 10s. It's negligible either way.

There are no card counters at these tables so the casino is not worried about streaks. The policy with most CSMs is to return the cards to the machine after every hand. It doesn't vary from table to table.

Your profile says you're a pit manager. Do you consider card counting cheating?

Talking about card counting I personally do not consider it as cheating, but on the other hand I don't want card counters playing in my casino. If you do encounter this type of players the simplest solution is to make the table minimum as table max. for this type of play, and no mid shoe entry

Quote: bonanc

Talking about card counting I personally do not consider it as cheating, but on the other hand I don't want card counters playing in my casino. If you do encounter this type of players the simplest solution is to make the table minimum as table max. for this type of play, and no mid shoe entry

Even then, they can use index play to lessen the already low house advantage. When don't the play 100+ video poker that is freely offered? Guess they get a kick out of playing bad boy. But they still piss me off. Recently played double deck with just dealer. Sure got old watching him shuffle after 1 deck. I started to promise I wouldn't ramp my bets if he would deal the whole damn deck. I would even let him decide from my strategy card what I wanted to do. But, unfortunately the counters have f---ed it up for everyone. Except themselves, I guess.

will the played card just discarded in the shuffle machine be out in the next hand?

Quote: SafeGaming

will the played card just discarded in the shuffle machine be out in the next hand?

There are different thoughts on this, but the general consensus seems to be no. The cards for the next round are supposedly put "on deck" while the dealer returns the discards to the machine. If that is true and the cards for the next hand are in the front chamber of the machine, the returned discards cannot be among them. I have no idea how many cards are in this waiting mode or if it is the same amount every time. The only thing I know for sure is that card counters avoid these machines like the plague and encourage everyone else to do so.

The truth is that if you are not counting cards these machines are perfectly fine to play under the right conditions. I'd be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

the csm is actually better than a shoe game for the average player. sure you dont get high plus counts that a counter loves, but you dont get very high minus counts that casinos love. and as for it being faster? nonsense, just take more breaks.

My friends in Arizona were the biggest CSM fans I've met. They prefered CSM to shoe games. They would take over a 6-spot table, and play 2 hands each of $10 if there were 3 of them, or 3 hands of $25 if there were two people. Balls-out for hours, no breaks, constant action. Surprisingly, they finished ahead in the long run, without counting.

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I think I'll post this here rather than in the Forum/Help forum.

Does anyone know why we are getting so many multiple-duplicate-post occurrences here, even from experienced members like teddys? Prior to teddys's triple post above, I've seen double posts from pacomartin and a number of others.

The website is acting funny. I had to hit 'F5' to submit multiple times because I kept getting an error message.

Quote: 1BB

The only thing I know for sure is that card counters avoid these machines like the plague and encourage everyone else to do so.

The truth is that if you are not counting cards these machines are perfectly fine to play under the right conditions. I'd be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested.

cant avoid these machines like a plague, becuz the whole casino all using csm...

may i know what are you going to elaborate? im interested.

can someone confirm that the discarded cards will not be out the next hand? or we are just guessing? the machine is shuffle master onetosix

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

the csm is actually better than a shoe game for the average player. sure you dont get high plus counts that a counter loves, but you dont get very high minus counts that casinos love. and as for it being faster? nonsense, just take more breaks.

high count doesnt suit me.. almost feel like early surrender my 18 vs dealer 10, really.....

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Quote: SafeGaming

cant avoid these machines like a plague, becuz the whole casino all using csm...

may i know what are you going to elaborate? im interested.

can someone confirm that the discarded cards will not be out the next hand? or we are just guessing? the machine is shuffle master onetosix

A Shuffle Master rep was at my home casino this past summer and I asked him that very question about the discards. He said that was the question he gets asked the most about the one2six machine and he explained the procedure in great detail. I've heard that explanation before and it seems to make sense although I have no way of verifying it.

I was going to elaborate on the pros and cons of machine vs shoe games with an eye toward stretching your gambling dollar. I realize you don't have a choice now but someday you will. CSMs usually offer lower limits but they deal 20% or more hands per hour. For those concerned with total money wagered, the hand shuffled shoe could be flat bet $10 a hand at 80 hands per hour where the CSM could be flat bet $5 a hand at 100 hands per hour. That's quite a difference. Playing full tables will drop the hands per hour.

Some unscrupulous casinos instruct their dealers to delay returning the discards to the machine if they are high cards giving the house a little more edge. I'd avoid those just on principle.

The bottom line is go ahead and play the CSMs. The player edge is slightly better than the shoe games. If you can keep the hands per hour down, there's really no difference if you're not counting cards.

I guess player dont really look into hands per hour unless they ONLy want to pass time, and prepare to lose...

doesnt those proffesional want to play 200 hands per hour?

something to share, i saw the pit sup open up the machine becuz the cards are jam, the cards are already in the shoe when she took out the roller, so maybe u are right, but u said he explained the procedure in great detail and u heard it, pls elaborate the procedure, XD

not into counting and when to bet big, just concern to those vulnerable 16 vs 10 or 12 vs 4