I just saw one of the worst blackjack bets in my life.
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I do not know the other rules, I didn't give it a 1 second thought.
Are these players who pay .25 commission to bet 1.00 aware of what they are doing? All he is going to win is 1.00?
Is it one of these "only game in town" situations?
I'm no Wizard but it seems that adding an extra 25% house rake on every $1.00 bet adds 25%, for a total of 26.93%.
I'd also guess that nobody playing at these odds is using correct basic strategy, so they are probably looking at more like 30% HE.
I'd say these poor people are better off playing Keno.
Why do people do it then?Quote: 1BBSome Atlantic City casinos have been doing this for years. At 60 hands per hour, you are renting the chair for $15 an hour. There is no way to recoup that.
People are only interested in the low price and since they expect to lose anyway, they believe this allows them to lose slower.Quote: FleaStiffWhy do people do it then?
As far as the edge goes, I may be wrong here but I do not think you add 25% based on a .25 vig on a $1 bet. Since you win around 45% of the time, and you're essentially betting $1.25 to usually win $1.00, it's a 20% vig of a 45% chance, or about a 9% addition to the edge.
Mind you I'm not really sure if that's how to calculate it. And I still think that's a stupid way to play...
Quote: FleaStiff
Is it one of these "only game in town" situations?
I haven't been up to Detroit in a while (I think it's been at least a year, probably a bit longer). MGM Grand is a nice looking casino, but it's in the heart of downtown Detroit. They have a REALLY big problem with panhandling in the casinos, and security there is always on the lookout for such people. Being a downtown casino, they can offer super high table minimums, because they know players have nowhere else to go (it used to be easy to hop the pond into Canada, but now they require a passport).
As pointed out, AC has been doing this, mainly in the smaller casinos. There, if you bet $5 or more on those tables, you don't have to pay, and you still get 3:2 and not so horrible rules. I think it's an easy way to hide the fact that there are $5 tables out there.
Quote: FleaStiffare these players who pay .25 commission to bet 1.00 aware of what they are doing? All he is going to win is 1.00?
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. They do not care, they get to sit at "the grown-ups" table.
A machine would be better. Give it fair rules and it should still be good for the $1-$0.25. And as we all know, it won't take breaks, call in sick, form a union, or call the low-level player a flea.
Quote: DJTeddyBearPeople are only interested in the low price and since they expect to lose anyway, they believe this allows them to lose slower.
As far as the edge goes, I may be wrong here but I do not think you add 25% based on a .25 vig on a $1 bet. Since you win around 45% of the time, and you're essentially betting $1.25 to usually win $1.00, it's a 20% vig of a 45% chance, or about a 9% addition to the edge.
Mind you I'm not really sure if that's how to calculate it. And I still think that's a stupid way to play...
DJ is right. You bet $1.25 and calculate the HE based on that $1.25, so you're looking at about 22% off the top instead of 27%. What a waste of money.
Quote: Ibeatyouracesto continue, we know a lot of bj players arent that bright but there was a guy actually flat betting $1.00. essentially he is trying to win 75 cents. and also, bj pays even money at these stakes. very sad.
Not necessarily. Were he playing $1000/hand and not cheating, his expected loss is about $3/hand.
Not entirely true. MGM Grand is just outside of downtown, by the freeway. You can walk there from downtown, but it's not in downtown. (This was a criticism of it when it opened; Motor City casino is even further out, and in a worse neighborhood.) As for the panhandling problem, I've never been panhandled in any of the casinos. I have been panhandled outside Greektown excessively.Quote: TiltpoulI haven't been up to Detroit in a while (I think it's been at least a year, probably a bit longer). MGM Grand is a nice looking casino, but it's in the heart of downtown Detroit. They have a REALLY big problem with panhandling in the casinos, and security there is always on the lookout for such people. Being a downtown casino, they can offer super high table minimums, because they know players have nowhere else to go (it used to be easy to hop the pond into Canada, but now they require a passport).
As pointed out, AC has been doing this, mainly in the smaller casinos. There, if you bet $5 or more on those tables, you don't have to pay, and you still get 3:2 and not so horrible rules. I think it's an easy way to hide the fact that there are $5 tables out there.
That said, MGM Grand Detroit is probably the nicest casino hotel outside of Las Vegas, and that includes AC. Detroit gaming is a very healthy market and they are able to command high minimums everywhere, even in Canada. You won't find any bargains here.
Quote: IbeatyouracesWe're not talking about a $1000 bet but just the $1 bet. Plus this commision is only collected if you bet less than table minimum. Even money bj is only when the bet is not in $5 increments.
We're talking about a person losing 30 cents/hand who's considered pathetic vrs a guy losing $3/hand who's not? Aren't they both paying for entertainment and enjoying the casino amenities? Guess who appears to be getting the bargain? Beat those aces. I think the high roller only has kings, but he is high rolling.
Quote: teddysNot entirely true. MGM Grand is just outside of downtown, by the freeway. You can walk there from downtown, but it's not in downtown. (This was a criticism of it when it opened; Motor City casino is even further out, and in a worse neighborhood.) As for the panhandling problem, I've never been panhandled in any of the casinos. I have been panhandled outside Greektown excessively.
That said, MGM Grand Detroit is probably the nicest casino hotel outside of Las Vegas, and that includes AC. Detroit gaming is a very healthy market and they are able to command high minimums everywhere, even in Canada. You won't find any bargains here.
I think the fact that you haven't been panhandled at the casinos is a testament to the security those places provide. One dealer was telling me (and again, it's been a while since I've been up there) that they go through training to know what to look for. I've had players be VERY friendly to me while playing and winning, hoping that I'll give them a thank you token. Dealers see it, give a code to the pit, and those people are escorted away from the tables.
I have to disagree about the niceness of MGM Grand Detroit. It is nice, but the color scheme is awful. I haven't stayed at the hotel, so I can't say anything about that, but I would assume at the rates they charge it would be superb. A CASINO rate for me was $149 a night... and that was after playing $20 a hand BJ for 6 hours. The comps seemed pretty good though... I had over $100 available at one point.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces20% plus or .3%, who is more pathetic? spending $3 of $1000 is not bad. $200 or more from the same amount is.
Hey pal, you're hand is trash, not even a pair. Your post is ridiculous. Oh, I see! The high roller only plays one hand while the dodo
plays 1000.
Quote: FleaStiffWhy do people do it then?
The casinos have brainwashed the players into thinking they're making a $1.25 bet rather than paying 25 cents to bet a $1.00. They know nothing of a proper bankroll and think their money will last longer at the lower limits.
Resorts in AC has removed these tables.
Quote: dmWe're talking about a person losing 30 cents/hand who's considered pathetic vrs a guy losing $3/hand who's not? Aren't they both paying for entertainment and enjoying the casino amenities? Guess who appears to be getting the bargain? Beat those aces. I think the high roller only has kings, but he is high rolling.
The point isn't that he is paying "too much", but rather that he is paying more than he could. If he bet $5, he'd only be losing 5 cents per hand, but he chose to bet $1, and lose 30. That's just crazy.
I think we might analogize this to those who instead of memorizing the True Basic Strategy with all its fine details simply adopt an Adjusted Basic Strategy that is, for them, easier to remember. They are playing at less than optimal but still in a convenient manner. Its similar to those who stand on 16 for emotional reasons rather than hitting which is the optimal play.Quote: weaselmanThe point isn't that he is paying "too much", but rather that he is paying more than he could. If he bet $5, he'd only be losing 5 cents per hand, but he chose to bet $1, and lose 30. That's just crazy.
These are choices made sometimes out of ignorance and sometimes simply for convenience.
A less than optimal 7 dollars at a 10 dollar table is unwise, but understandable as an attempt to make the bank roll last longer.
Quote: FleaStiffI think we might analogize this to those who instead of memorizing the True Basic Strategy with all its fine details simply adopt an Adjusted Basic Strategy that is, for them, easier to remember.
No, that is different. It is not any easier to bet one dollar than it is to bet five. There is absolutely no reason to do it whatsoever.
Quote:Its similar to those who stand on 16 for emotional reasons rather than hitting which is the optimal play.
Yes, I see the similarity with this one. The only difference is that less money is wasted.
Doubling "soft eleven" "for emotional reasons" would be another example.
Yeah, that makes sense, NOT.
On a side note, one of my plans for Poker For Roulette is a keno type ticket system so you can play the side bet, for an extended period of time, without playing Roulette, or even staying near the table.
Quote: FleaStiffWhy do people do it then?
Spreading only $1 -$10, and charging a quarter for each hand, doesn't seem like it would even justify the table space. What is the advantage of offering a $1 game vs. a $5 game?
