Public domain/free to use Side bet games?

I am creating a freeware PC game of blackjack and have been looking to add side bets. The game has a cartoon old west theme with many different elements, and is simply installed on a users PC (No online play or such). Little to my surprise any side bets I have found are licensed/trademarked by various companies when I did further research. Lucky for me I found a article by Bill Zender that outlined that obvious fact.

With so many side bets already created it seems there is little room to create a new side bet that would not overlap another and possible infringement. I am curious if anyone knows of any side bets that are in the public domain or can be used freely in my game? Any links to such side bet rules and license/copyright information would be most helpful. I have not turned up anything myself after many hours of using Google, and I appreciate any help.

blackjack only is the only one I know of.

Thanks for the tip, I was afraid of that being the case. I will just avoid using side bets and simply use various video game type bonuses and enhancements to add some spice to the game (Which can be disabled by the player for any purist players).

With that taken care of I have to ask if there are any other things I need to avoid in my blackjack game that are patented/trademarked? Perhaps certain pay outs for blackjack (3 to 2, 6 to 5), or offering the options to surrender (early or late) or insurance? Is the insurance on the dealer having blackjack also a patented/trademarked item as it seems to be a side bet itself?

Quote: TCosbyJr

Thanks for the tip, I was afraid of that being the case. I will just avoid using side bets and simply use various video game type bonuses and enhancements to add some spice to the game (Which can be disabled by the player for any purist players).

With that taken care of I have to ask if there are any other things I need to avoid in my blackjack game that are patented/trademarked? Perhaps certain pay outs for blackjack (3 to 2, 6 to 5), or offering the options to surrender (early or late) or insurance? Is the insurance on the dealer having blackjack also a patented/trademarked item as it seems to be a side bet itself?

Dealer Push on 22 is trademarked...

I believe Casino Surrender is as well... that's where if the dealer has a face card showing and the player has a hard/soft 20 as the first two cards, they may choose to have an "Automatic Win" of 1/2 the bet. The dealer checks for an Ace first, and the bet is offered prior to action on the hand.

I think a 5:2 payout for Insurance is copyrighted by the people who own Double Attack Blackjack, but I could be mistaken on that...

Trademarked means nothing as far as patents go. Almost any option when included in another game become part of that game. Otherwise Switch would have been blocked by Double Action Bj.

There are a number of public doman BJ side bets (not many) that are now public domain - free to use. Some very good.
From what I understand - and I might be wrong - Mike Shackelford, the excellent web-master of the game repository "wizardofodds," might be working to delinate this distinction for some of the games and side bets, one of the problems of being the "key master" of his level.
I know that we use one good BJ bet "Dealers Bust 21"
You may want try "dealer's bust 21" from Barret Gaming that appears to be a public doman gift, might be wrong.
You may want to contact barret gaming about their side bet "Dealer bust-21." Might be public domain or free
for promotional use. Do ask the Wizard about his effort too, although it might be more work for him. Just more joy and delight...

Quote: TCosbyJr

With so many side bets already created it seems there is little room to create a new side bet that would not overlap another and possible infringement. I am curious if anyone knows of any side bets that are in the public domain or can be used freely in my game? Any links to such side bet rules and license/copyright information would be most helpful. I have not turned up anything myself after many hours of using Google, and I appreciate any help.

If you have a well developed side bet, why would you give the side bet to TCosbyJr in his program? Maybe you should, because
[1] you have not been able to sell it any way
[2] free advertisement
[3] players can practice outside of casino and spend real cash on real game inside casinos.
The only reason you may not want to give it away is
[1] because you are worried TCosbyJr's program may be buggy, mis representing your side game
[2] you thought you could make money with the side bet...

What are the other negatives? Marbolo gives away free sample cigarettes on the street, why not giving away free side bet outside of casinos???

Many thanks for all the information, I appreciate it.

Quote: Paigowdan

There are a number of public doman BJ side bets (not many) that are now public domain - free to use. Some very good.
From what I understand - and I might be wrong - Mike Shackelford, the excellent web-master of the game repository "wizardofodds," might be working to delinate this distinction for some of the games and side bets, one of the problems of being the "key master" of his level.

I actually found my way here from the wizardofodds site. I read through the contact area and questions are asked and answered on the forum here, so perhaps he will comment on the side bets.

Quote: Paigowdan

I know that we use one good BJ bet "Dealers Bust 21"
You may want try "dealer's bust 21" from Barret Gaming that appears to be a public doman gift, might be wrong.
You may want to contact barret gaming about their side bet "Dealer bust-21." Might be public domain or free
for promotional use. Do ask the Wizard about his effort too, although it might be more work for him. Just more joy and delight...

Thanks I will find out more about it.

I have a couple of new side-bets, one soon to be launched in the US and the other still on hold as it's perfect for video/online but needs tweaking for land-based play.

Depending on the quality and circumstances of your project, I would consider giving you a royalty-free licence.

If you're interested, either reply here or PM me and we can look at the possibilities.

Quote: buzzpaff

Trademarked means nothing as far as patents go. Almost any option when included in another game become part of that game. Otherwise Switch would have been blocked by Double Action Bj.

Double Action Blackjack appears to be a side-bet that uses the dealers up-card along with the players cards. A derivative of '21+3' comes to mind.

This is a free program: Pair Me Up Blackjack. It a nice game, but too hard for casinos.

Pair Me Up Blackjack

I keep it at

www.eTable Games.com

Quote: Switch

Double Action Blackjack appears to be a side-bet that uses the dealers up-card along with the players cards. A derivative of '21+3' comes to mind.

Actually I was referring to this :
Method of playing double action blackjack

Abstract

A method of playing a blackjack game that will enable a blackjack player to make the second initial 21 wager and play the second initial hand on any deal of the cards. The layout of the table includes boxes on each player station where the wagers are placed, and card dealing areas next to each of the boxes where the hands of cards are dealt. The boxes and card dealing areas are spaced sufficiently far enough apart so that players are not deprived a place to place a "21" wager and play at the table. Furthermore, with this layout the dealer and player can clearly determine which cards belongs to the player's first wager and which cards belong to the player's second wager.

Inventors: Groussman; Raymond K. (Oceanside, CA)
Appl. No.: 07/994,507
Filed: December 21, 1992

More confusing is this ?

Word Mark DOUBLE ACTION BLACKJACK
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: entertainment services, namely offering casino card games. FIRST USE: 19870908. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910418
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74610627
Filing Date December 13, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) R.J. Licensing Corp. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 21550 Oxnard Street, Suite 780 Woodland Hills CALIFORNIA 91367
Attorney of Record Timothy T. Tyson
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date October 31, 1995

and these ?

Game Name: Double Action Blackjack II
Author: Unax Gaming
Sean Shangguan
Tel: (206) 229-2789
Fax: (888) 813-5482
E-Mail: Info@unaxgaming.com

Game Name: Double Action Blackjack (Original)
Author: Unax Gaming
Sean Shangguan
Tel: (206) 229-2789
Fax: (888) 813-5482
E-Mail: info@unaxgaming.com

It all seems quite confusing??? Are they saying that they basically have an extra box so that a player can play 2 spots simultaneously?

Filed in 1992 so they haven't got long left before it's public domain - if the side-bet part was filed then that would be very interesting. Do you know the filing date for the actual side-bet Buzz ?

I have contacted you Switch, and etablegames, via PM about your side bets - Many thanks.

------

Due to the interest of my game I am including some links to current screen shots and information for it.

I have included screen shots of how the game currently appears (still in development and I am creating/altering images all the time right now) Title screen and Play screen.

Nothing is set in stone yet so many changes are expected in my game, and many have happened in the last few days. The game will be released as a pc game, and likely playable online as a flash game - I am looking at various other formats/systems it can be played on as well such as Mac, Linux versions (Ubuntu, etc), and perhaps iPhone, Android, etc in the future.

If I include any side bets they will alter the game for that particular hand as needed for the side bet. I hope to include a selection that allows the player to choose a single various side bet to play on each hand if they want.

My game is a cross format blackjack game - it can be a typically straight forward blackjack card game or includes many elements that transform it into a game with many bonuses/games that make it into something more as well, after all it is a video game.

A bit about my game -- it is a 2D game with a old west theme. The game runs in a window that can be played in any resoultion of 800x600 or larger, and can also be run in full screen mode (with option to stretch for widescreen format screens). It includes music by Benjamin Robert Tubb (mostly Ragtime type music to fit the theme) and various sound effects. The rules/game can be customized (number of decks, continuous shuffling on/off, dealer hits soft 17, doubling rules, surrender type, number of computer opponents, music on/off, bonuses, and much more); in other words beyond the cartoon dealer the game can be run in a blackjack purist mode, or any variation.

My game has a jackpot that is won by getting two bonus cards dealt to the player, bonuses based from the bonus cards (Bronze joker, Silver joker, and Gold joker) if the player's hand wins, and various game play bonuses like the cattle stampede, stage coach, bandit/rustlers, etc. - which are random events that give possible bonuses to players.

Beyond bonuses the game also has various animation scenes for different events and for periods of inactivity (such as the dealer playing a piano if the player does not click anything for a period of time), or other game animations for added excitement.

My game will be freeware; however, I have not decided on a license type as of yet (GPL, LGPL, etc.). The game will not be public domain as that would give away all my rights to my game, my images, sounds, etc, and would allow people to use anything as they want. As all rights are waved in public domain it is not a option for me personally or for others that are involved in the game - such as the music by Benjamin Robert Tubb that he created and owns the copyrights to.

Yes That what it was, Popular in the early 90's in low limit jurisdictions like Colorado. Max bet was $5 so with 12 spots it was worth the license fee. Yes, it was that simple and patented. All 12 hands played against the same dealer hand each round. Slowly disappeared as Multi-Action hit the scene.

Have nt found the patent yet for the side bet. Earliest mention is April 2007. Usually on line room or gaming regs used term like patented blackjack game or patented side bet. Curious now, will search for patent this weekend. And trademark ?????

ES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
Commissioner for Trademarks
P.O. Box 1451
Alexandria, VA 22313-1451
www.uspto.gov
Nov 05, 2007

NOTICE OF ABANDONMENT


KRIS R JENSEN
JENSEN LEGAL
216 FIRST AVENUE SOUTH, SUITE 204
SEATTLE, WA 98104
TM106
ATTORNEY
REFERENCE
NUMBER:
SERIAL NUMBER:
MARK:
APPLICANT: 77/060920
DOUBLE ACTION BLACKJACK
Unax Gaming

THE ABOVE IDENTIFIED TRADEMARK APPLICATION WAS ABANDONED IN FULL ON 10/09/2007 FOR THE FOLLOWING REASON:

NO RESPONSE TO THE OFFICE ACTION MAILED ON 04/06/2007 WAS RECEIVED IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE (USPTO) WITHIN THE SIX-MONTH RESPONSE PERIOD. (15 U.S.C. 1062(b); TRADEMARK RULE 2.65(a)).

YOU CAN REQUEST REINSTATEMENT OF THE APPLICATION FOR NO FEE IF:

*
YOU HAVE PROOF THAT YOUR RESPONSE WAS RECEIVED IN THE USPTO ON OR BEFORE THE DUE DATE - SUCH AS A POSTCARD WITH A USPTO MAILROOM DATE STAMP; OR,
* YOU MAILED OR FAXED THE RESPONSE ON OR BEFORE THE DUE DATE WITH A CERTIFICATE OF MAILING OR FACSIMILE TRANSMISSION, IN ACCORDANCE WITH USPTO RULE 2.197, 37 CFR SEC. 2.197.

YOU MUST SUBMIT A COPY OF THE PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED TIMELY RESPONSE WITHIN 2 MONTHS OF THE DATE PRINTED AT THE TOP OF THIS NOTICE ALONG WITH ONE OF THE TYPES OF PROOF SET OUT ABOVE. YOU MAY FAX THIS INFORMATION TO 571-273-8950.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE PROOF NECESSARY FOR REINSTATEMENT, YOU CAN REQUEST REVIVAL OF THE APPLICATION, UNDER USPTO RULE 2.66, 37 CFR SEC. 2.66, BY:

*
FILING A "PETITION TO REVIVE" WITHIN 2 MONTHS OF THE DATE PRINTED AT THE TOP OF THIS NOTICE, INDICATING THAT THE REASON FOR THE DELAY IN RESPONDING BY THE DUE DATE WAS "UNINTENTIONAL";
* PAYING THE PETITION FEE OF $100, MADE PAYABLE TO THE COMMISSIONER OF TRADEMARKS; AND
* INCLUDING A COPY OF THE RESPONSE TO THE OFFICE ACTION (IF YOU DID RECEIVE THE OFFICE ACTION - OTHERWISE, INCLUDE A STATEMENT THAT YOU DID NOT RECEIVE THE OFFICE ACTION.)

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CALL 1-800-786-9199

And her latest trademark Hot News! On Wednesday, January 30, 2008, a U.S. federal trademark registration number 77384484 was filed by KRIS R JENSEN with the name TEXAS IN A BOTTLE with the description Barbeque sauce.

Thanks Buzz.

I can see the need for the game now when you mention Colorado and the old limits.

Surprised that it had a patent granted on it - trying to think what was so inventive unless it's the side-bet and that was also contained in the description.

Side bet was not involved in the 1992 patent application. It was a limited market but Colorado had $5 max bet for 20 years I also saw no side bet at a double action table during all that time. Not even the Wheel of Madness or Go Fish LOL