BenJammin
BenJammin
Joined: Nov 1, 2009
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December 9th, 2009 at 3:37:47 AM permalink
Back in the day when casinos dealt Black Jack from one deck by hand, or even now with the two deck hand dealt games that still pay 3 to 2, correct betting strategy might effect another hand in that when the count is favorable to the players your decision to hit, stand, or double down becomes more important. So, in that instance I'll agree that yes, another's play can effect the outcome of the game.

These days 4 or 6 deck shoes are common, and casinos shuffle up more often or use automatic shuffle machines, so the decision made by one player doesn't have the same effect as they once did, but you'll still hear many seasoned players complain if a player makes the wrong decision on a play.

So, if you've ever experienced being scolded by another player at the table for making what in their opinion is the wrong play promptly tell them to shut up and mind their own business.

Nothing can throw a wet blanket on a game faster than a self appointed expert telling you how to play.

Besides, the real pros are at the $25 and up tables at the high end strip properties playing single deck S17 with all the good rules, not some low end property.

Once I was at the Slots A Fun playing their $2 S17, (no longer there sorry) and this guy at 3rd base was getting anal retentive and commenting about the other players there at the full table making mistakes.
So, just for shits and giggles I split a pair of 5's. I thought the guy was going to have a freakin coronary right there on the spot. The best part was I won both hands, and on one I even doubled down. He turned red, and packed up and left, opening up a seat for another happy player. Every one else at the table was laughing their asses off. I can still see the guys face as I think about it.

Now, that's some fun right there!
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 9th, 2009 at 4:38:55 AM permalink
Quote: BenJammin

Nothing can throw a wet blanket on a game faster than a self appointed expert telling you how to play!

Unless she is young, attractive and her advice lets me start to win!

Seriously, ... I have enough trouble concentrating on my own hand. I don't worry how other peoples actions affect my cards.
pocketaces
pocketaces
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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December 9th, 2009 at 6:39:34 AM permalink
The original post here, while generally correct, needs a bit of clarification - While its true a card counter would want less cards to be used by other players in a positive count, and more cards to be used in a negative count, to any basic strategy player, it doesn't matter at all. This is true for one, two, or many decks and a distinction does not need to be made.

Also, how a player affects the aforementioned card counter does not correlate to what is generally accepted as a 'good' player playing something close to basic strategy, or a bad one straying from it. In fact, a counter would simply want other blackjack players to use a very bad strategy of standing on everything. Thus a counter would probably be better off playing at a table full of bad players who generally hate hitting hard 15s and 16s and soft 18s in any circumstances. Yes they will also use up less of the small cards in bad counts but the counter will only have a small bet out in that situation.

I am saying that a 'bad' player that is berated by other players may actually be a counter's best friend, but of course does nothing for a player that is not varying his bets with the count.

And finally, I think you may need to take a trip to Vegas to see what the blackjack conditions are nowadays - There are no high-end strip properties dealing S17 single deck games (with 'good rules' or not) at any limit, anywhere. The best you do in high limit rooms is usually 2 Deck S17 games with no surrender or re-splitting of aces. These rooms also have plenty of bad games that uninformed people play just like everywhere else.

Better rules are rare but the occasional H17 single deck games can be found at low-roller joints. The best blackjack for a basic stratgey player in Vegas is probably at the el cortez which is not the Wynn by any means.

The best in the country that I know of, aside from some time-limited promotions that can push the game in to a player advantage, is in a casino outside of San Diego. They have an almost zero house edge game.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 9th, 2009 at 9:21:10 AM permalink
Quote: pocketaces

They have an almost zero house edge game.

Good. They may have to have an almost zero house edge game. Sure the San Diego market is large and there are other casinos, but any casino has to market itself in some fashion. Its good that they are not a Sweat The Money place with high house edges and sweaty palmed floormen. Even at such a table it is possible that the play of others will affect your own profit-and-loss statement, but its still best to concentrate on playing perfect strategy
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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December 9th, 2009 at 12:54:03 PM permalink
Quote: pocketaces



Better rules are rare but the occasional H17 single deck games can be found at low-roller joints. The best blackjack for a basic stratgey player in Vegas is probably at the el cortez which is not the Wynn by any means.



Longhorn on Boulder Highway and Bighorn on Lake Mead! (I might have mixed those up).

And those definitely aren't the Wynn.

West Wendover, Nev. and Sparks have pretty good games too if you care to drive that far.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
BenJammin
BenJammin
Joined: Nov 1, 2009
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December 9th, 2009 at 2:42:43 PM permalink
see the wizard's black jack survey

http://wizardofvegas.com/guide/blackjack-survey/
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maineguy
maineguy
Joined: Apr 8, 2010
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April 8th, 2010 at 2:31:58 PM permalink
OK...I'm an admitted amateur at jackblack and you can tell me that others play doesn't effect my play.......but how many times have I been at a filled table....dealer showing a 6...or 5.....everyone with 12 or more stands except the person near the end who hits a 13,14,or 15...gets the facecard dealer would have gotten......then dealer completes hand under 22. I'm at low stakes table...I don't say a word, except "another beer please sweetie!!"
dlevinelaw
dlevinelaw
Joined: Dec 3, 2009
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April 8th, 2010 at 2:36:36 PM permalink
It can definitely make a difference in a single hand, but the idea is that it will help you just as often as it hurts you, so there is no real difference in the long run. Its probably not as noticeable when it helps though.
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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April 8th, 2010 at 2:47:37 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Longhorn on Boulder Highway and Bighorn on Lake Mead! (I might have mixed those up).

And those definitely aren't the Wynn.



+1 on both these joints.

$2minbet with some loose rules.

DAS, H17, DD on 2 or 3 cards, LS, RSA to 3hands total, BJ pays 2:1 if 2 or more players get a BJ at the same time

also if youre on boulder highway and like craps, check out jokers wild with their $1 table and 10x odds, if you continuously make passline and comebets at every oppurtunity, you will only lose about $1.50/hr, 25c chips are also used at this place if you like to make placebets, you can place the 4,5,9,T for $1.25 and 6,8 for $1.50 a piece, or buy the 4 and 10 for $5 for 25cents.
PapaChubby
PapaChubby
Joined: Mar 29, 2010
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April 8th, 2010 at 3:01:29 PM permalink
Quote: dlevinelaw

It can definitely make a difference in a single hand, but the idea is that it will help you just as often as it hurts you, so there is no real difference in the long run. Its probably not as noticeable when it helps though.



It ought to be just as noticeable when it helps. Once when playing at Paris in the early morning I had a player at third base with no concept of basic strategy. And every wrong decision he made seemed to screw up the dealer's hand, turning losses into wins for the rest of the table. I was buying him (free) drinks, toasting to his long life, and was heartbroken when he had to leave to catch a plane. Of course, his horrible decisions cost him his own bankroll, but the rest of us cleaned up.

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