How much longer do counters realistically have?

It's pretty easy for an AI agent using surveillance footage to observe the cards and keep a perfect count. Also easy for an AI agent to observe blackjack player betting patterns and learn what is considered average player betting behavior. Also easy for an AI agent to combine count and betting patterns over time to identify deviations from normal (possible counters).

That's a super simple AI system to develop and run on surveillance footage. Does that already exist? I only vulture slots so I'm not up to par on the BJ world. I would guess systems like this would be cheap enough for all casinos to run within a year or two.

On the flip side, AI agents can be run on top of a players hidden camera footage and signal to the player the perfect play and the player could get drunk out of their mind without counting. Modern day version of the Ken Uston computers. Hidden camera embedded in a button on your shirt. Smart phone in your pocket running AI agent to count. Signal via smart watch haptics (vibrations).

My prediction is AI running on top of surveillance will make counting for any length of time extremely difficult in the future, what say you?

Quote: BTLWI

It's pretty easy for an AI agent using surveillance footage to observe the cards and keep a perfect count. Also easy for an AI agent to observe blackjack player betting patterns and learn what is considered average player betting behavior. Also easy for an AI agent to combine count and betting patterns over time to identify deviations from normal (possible counters).

That's a super simple AI system to develop and run on surveillance footage. Does that already exist? I only vulture slots so I'm not up to par on the BJ world. I would guess systems like this would be cheap enough for all casinos to run within a year or two.

On the flip side, AI agents can be run on top of a players hidden camera footage and signal to the player the perfect play and the player could get drunk out of their mind without counting. Modern day version of the Ken Uston computers. Hidden camera embedded in a button on your shirt. Smart phone in your pocket running AI agent to count. Signal via smart watch haptics (vibrations).

My prediction is AI running on top of surveillance will make counting for any length of time extremely difficult in the future, what say you?
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A few misconceptions here:

1. You can detect card counting with statistical analysis. The tech has existed for years. It is nothing to do with AI.
2. In the modern game humans do not significantly under-perform computer-perfect play.

There is this persistent math undergraduate fantasy about computer-perfect play being able to destroy casinos. Outside of deeply dealt single-deck games it is just not true. You might at best get a tenth of a per cent using a computer in a modern game shoe game. So you might win 0.6% instead of 0.5%. It is not worth it.

The modern excitement around AI is to do with Large Language Models, these are completely useless as a casino application for multiple reasons. They can't do math currently.

They don't need AI for this. Online casinos are already doing it. They have a stipulation on their games like baccarat where they can turn the side bets off at their discretion. I was observing some online baccarat and noticed the bets would appear to be turned off at random points for the shoe - never at a consistent # hands lets say. So I started counting the side bets, turns out they disable the side bets the second the count is positive ev.

I think it's just a matter of time until they bring this into to the brick and mortar casinos. 5 - 10 years at most.

Quote: goose

They don't need AI for this. Online casinos are already doing it. They have a stipulation on their games like baccarat where they can turn the side bets off at their discretion. I was observing some online baccarat and noticed the bets would appear to be turned off at random points for the shoe - never at a consistent # hands lets say. So I started counting the side bets, turns out they disable the side bets the second the count is positive ev.

I think it's just a matter of time until they bring this into to the brick and mortar casinos. 5 - 10 years at most.
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The thing is you could have done this in the eighties. There are other reasons why they are not implementing it.

The tech is only so useful. You have to get a reasonable sized data sample. If the player uses cover and plays for short sessions they won't show up as an ap.

If I understand LLMs correctly, they know 1 + 1 = 2 because the large database it trains on is weighted toward that answer. It's not actually calculating the answer. If the set of possible BJ calculations is limited and correct, it should be able to manage. The neural net aspect or "blackbox" if that's part of the system aspect if it has that also, is looking for relationships humans aren't able to comb through and see, and maybe that's where the "magic" comes in, in spotting AP, where a human wouldn't.

Why wouldn't casinos use Ai? Just another tool. If I were them, I would be worried about it, at least until I see it is actually useless. If it is useless? A human would be double-checking.. If your opponent has a weapon, you probably need it also.

I'm out of my depth though, as I don't know enough about this.

neural net to humans 'Your thoughts are not my thoughts"

Quote: Archvaldor1

1. You can detect card counting with statistical analysis. The tech has existed for years. It is nothing to do with AI.

Thank you, I was going to go on a rant how people use buzzwords like "AI" without any clue what they are. You summed it up much better as this doesn't require any AI at all.

Quote: DRich

Quote: Archvaldor1

1. You can detect card counting with statistical analysis. The tech has existed for years. It is nothing to do with AI.

Thank you, I was going to go on a rant how people use buzzwords like "AI" without any clue what they are. You summed it up much better as this doesn't require any AI at all.
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I don't understand just what AI is, but I comprehend that the leading AI ETFs are running amok. Up twenty percent for the year while paying out over thirty percent a year in returns. As we are in the infancy of true A.I., I suspect those type of funds have a tremendous upside.

Quote: billryan

I don't understand just what AI is, but I comprehend that the leading AI ETFs are running amok. Up twenty percent for the year while paying out over thirty percent a year in returns. As we are in the infancy of true A.I., I suspect those type of funds have a tremendous upside.

I would be very interested in how they define AI too. Quants have been beating the market for years with just good algorithms before anyone used the term AI.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/030516/jim-simons-success-story-net-worth-education-top-quotes.asp#:~:text=Jim%20Simons%20is%20a%20renowned,Technologies%20and%20its%20Medallion%20Fund.