Level Shift my min Bet

Hello everyone,

Assuming I'm playijng with a 1:5 spread. If I'm playing at a table with $100 min, why not set my TC=0 bet at the start of the shoe to $200 so my max is $1000 then at bad negative counts drop to $100? I see losts of posts about scaling a bet when the TC is +ve but not when it's -ve.

-psg

Is this blackjack or Spanish 21? If you are using HiLo for blackjack, the expected value ev is negative at TC=0; therefore it’s a losing game and thus player should bet the least possible, which is the table minimum. This is a simple logic.

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

Hello everyone,

Assuming I'm playijng with a 1:5 spread. If I'm playing at a table with $100 min, why not set my TC=0 bet at the start of the shoe to $200 so my max is $1000 then at bad negative counts drop to $100? I see losts of posts about scaling a bet when the TC is +ve but not when it's -ve.

-psg
link to original post

You say you are playing with a 1:5 spread, yet if you play the way that you suggest you are really playing with a 1:10 spread. If you can get away with this without attracting heat, it is a superior way to play,

A technique known as "Wonging" is to make no bet when the count is very negative. When TC gets very negative, pretend to be on the cell phone or go to the restroom to avoid making the highly -EV wagers.

I was referring to HiLo Blackjack. If I understand right every interger change in TC equates to a 0.5% change in edge, right?

And assuming this holds for both positive and negative counts then wouldn't it make sense to best less and less as the count keeps going negative. Let's assume I don't leave the table.

I read a post on another site where someone was at a $25 min table but set his TC=0 bet to 3X or $75. Then as the count we positve he would spread up to $300 or 1:4.
If the count went negative he would spread down to $25 or 1:3.

So in effect he has a 1:12 spread but almost never in a give chunk of the shoe. At the start of the shoe he would revert back to $75. I like this idea as it would seem to draw less attention.

-psg

It’s a valid strategy. If you’re serious about counting you should get some software and you can sim any strategy you want to see how it will impact your win rate.

Everything looks good except that the pivot point for raising bet should be at TC=+1. It is not at TC=0.

I like it but what do I know? I read one little blip that the dealers at one casino alert the pit if the spread goes over 1-10. I think it becomes obvious when you start spreading to 2-3 spots from 1 spot then revert to 1 spot again at the start of each shoe. My local casino doesn't require double the minimum bet to play 2 spots, but they won't allow 3 spots. I have a 1 - 20 spread at least but it's not card counting related and it may be rarely seen.

First to aceside, yes I agree, TC=1 is 0% edge.

Hunterhill, I did download the cvcx cvdata demo, the index charts are great, haven't run any sims yet. However, I went another way and bought a whole blackjack setup from amazon (for less tha 2 black chips). I set it up in our dining room and got my kids to help out with the dealing and playing (wife's not thrilled about it). I haven't looked into how the official shuffle works but everything else is set up like the casino table including the beer.

I tried counting (Hi-OPT 1) almost 30 yrs ago, it was a disaster. Low bankroll, poor rules, bad vibe (ENHC in Hull Qubec) and no socializing, I was playing like a robot eating free peanuts and drinking water. All I got for it was a stiff lesson in varience (and I lost a few pounds).

I started up last year after all this time. I first went with Spanish 21 but dropped it when I found out most of vegas got rid of it (Venetian and Palazzo have it). So I went with blackjack.

This time around I did a little better. I stuck with HiLo becasue it's easier than other counts. I've only been twice recently, the first time was to Mandalay Bay last year, high limit, 1 on 1 with the dealer and played DD S17 no surrender but the best odds at -0.19%. The min was $100, I was ok with that (MGM had the same game but $500 min, I'm not there yet)

I was only at a 1:4 spread (too chicken to go 1:8) but the varience was on my side this time and I did learn something:

- I had a friendly dealer so I bet a $25 tip on my circle for him at the start of the shoe, did it a few times. I asked him about the slot in the shoe because I noticed it was around 1/8'' or so much wided than a card. The dealer hinted he has some wiggle room with that can move the cut card a bit if the players aren't asses. I realized I should really scope out a friendly dealer by first walking around a bit becasue everyone else is probably not like this dealer.


My second trip was to Seneca Allegany 2024 main floor $100 min, 1 on 1 with the dealer. It was S17 6D with late surrender (CBJN missed the late surrender so I emailed them). The 6D rules were the same as vegas except spliting aces. Only one card here even if it's another ace.

I wandered around and found a nice dealer and bet a tip again.

I increased my spread a bit from 1:5 and as we got close to the end of the shoe he would say "we got about 3-4 hands left in the shoe" This never happened to me before, Is this a common thing to say??

The shoe had some plastic/fabric covering on it so I could not see the cut card coming down the pipe - but he could. So if the count was good I played 2 and *sometimes* 3 at the end of the shoe. I never played 2 hands in the middle of the shoe. He also would show the burn card. At Seneca (where I was playing) you can ask to see it, but you gotta be quick to request! however this guy just did it without request. Good guy.

Sadly his shift ended and the next dealer was...well...let's just say she wasn't friendly. So I went to another table. Same story so I cashed out and left.

On a seperate note they did have only one Spanish table $10-$200 6D S17 all the good rules but no redoubling no one was playing the entire time I was there. Strange. When I got home I picked K. Walker's book again because I plan to go back to Seneca again at some point.

I have 3 more questions related to getting backed off.

1. If I bet a $25 tip a few times every shoe and the dealer is happy does this sway the supervisor in any way? Is there a grey area here? Do the supervisors share any of the tips?

2. When I practice counting at home I drink beer. That way I can drink at the black jack table and count. I try not to drink the day I gamble until I reach the table. I save about 1/4 beer from the night before by capping the bottle. Then I head down from the hotel room to the table and finsh that 1/4 beer right when I sit down so it looks like I just had a whole beer then ask the pit to send the beer girl over right away. I am wasting my time with this? Does drinking delay that day when I finallly get backed off?

3. I took out a 10K marker at both Mandalay Bay and Senca, what if I wire front money next time? Does that buy me any time from getting backed off? They weren't thrilled when I paid back the marker. I though maybe next time I'll bring my own money.

all opinions wellcome,

-psg

I'm tempted to stick with Spanish 21 because there's far less chance of getting backed off from that game because it's considered not as much a countable advantage game; like I said I don't count cards, just chips. It just seems like regular BJ is some kind of trap for the casino to kick out anyone it pleases like no other game does. It doesn't matter how much you win or lose, if they don't like your betting movements, then down comes the security detail. It seems to be exclusively the province of regular BJ. There's a few other games where this happens far less often for other perceived slights to the game, but the risk is far lower; just don't be a professional dice slider.

With a $10K marker, I'd be trying to turn that into $50K or $100K or something large, so where is that money going to be returned to? The bank?
The limits on Spanish 21 probably aren't high enough for that kind of play, so I'd have to stick with regular BJ or Baccarat or craps or some other game.

The Spanish 21 tables near me have $500 max or $1K max so I can at least approach CTR levels in a session.

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

First to aceside, yes I agree, TC=1 is 0% edge.

Hunterhill, I did download the cvcx cvdata demo, the index charts are great, haven't run any sims yet. However, I went another way and bought a whole blackjack setup from amazon (for less tha 2 black chips). I set it up in our dining room and got my kids to help out with the dealing and playing (wife's not thrilled about it). I haven't looked into how the official shuffle works but everything else is set up like the casino table including the beer.

I tried counting (Hi-OPT 1) almost 30 yrs ago, it was a disaster. Low bankroll, poor rules, bad vibe (ENHC in Hull Qubec) and no socializing, I was playing like a robot eating free peanuts and drinking water. All I got for it was a stiff lesson in varience (and I lost a few pounds).

I started up last year after all this time. I first went with Spanish 21 but dropped it when I found out most of vegas got rid of it (Venetian and Palazzo have it). So I went with blackjack.

This time around I did a little better. I stuck with HiLo becasue it's easier than other counts. I've only been twice recently, the first time was to Mandalay Bay last year, high limit, 1 on 1 with the dealer and played DD S17 no surrender but the best odds at -0.19%. The min was $100, I was ok with that (MGM had the same game but $500 min, I'm not there yet)

I was only at a 1:4 spread (too chicken to go 1:8) but the varience was on my side this time and I did learn something:

- I had a friendly dealer so I bet a $25 tip on my circle for him at the start of the shoe, did it a few times. I asked him about the slot in the shoe because I noticed it was around 1/8'' or so much wided than a card. The dealer hinted he has some wiggle room with that can move the cut card a bit if the players aren't asses. I realized I should really scope out a friendly dealer by first walking around a bit becasue everyone else is probably not like this dealer.


My second trip was to Seneca Allegany 2024 main floor $100 min, 1 on 1 with the dealer. It was S17 6D with late surrender (CBJN missed the late surrender so I emailed them). The 6D rules were the same as vegas except spliting aces. Only one card here even if it's another ace.

I wandered around and found a nice dealer and bet a tip again.

I increased my spread a bit from 1:5 and as we got close to the end of the shoe he would say "we got about 3-4 hands left in the shoe" This never happened to me before, Is this a common thing to say??

The shoe had some plastic/fabric covering on it so I could not see the cut card coming down the pipe - but he could. So if the count was good I played 2 and *sometimes* 3 at the end of the shoe. I never played 2 hands in the middle of the shoe. He also would show the burn card. At Seneca (where I was playing) you can ask to see it, but you gotta be quick to request! however this guy just did it without request. Good guy.

Sadly his shift ended and the next dealer was...well...let's just say she wasn't friendly. So I went to another table. Same story so I cashed out and left.

On a seperate note they did have only one Spanish table $10-$200 6D S17 all the good rules but no redoubling no one was playing the entire time I was there. Strange. When I got home I picked K. Walker's book again because I plan to go back to Seneca again at some point.

I have 3 more questions related to getting backed off.

1. If I bet a $25 tip a few times every shoe and the dealer is happy does this sway the supervisor in any way? Is there a grey area here? Do the supervisors share any of the tips?

2. When I practice counting at home I drink beer. That way I can drink at the black jack table and count. I try not to drink the day I gamble until I reach the table. I save about 1/4 beer from the night before by capping the bottle. Then I head down from the hotel room to the table and finsh that 1/4 beer right when I sit down so it looks like I just had a whole beer then ask the pit to send the beer girl over right away. I am wasting my time with this? Does drinking delay that day when I finallly get backed off?

3. I took out a 10K marker at both Mandalay Bay and Senca, what if I wire front money next time? Does that buy me any time from getting backed off? They weren't thrilled when I paid back the marker. I though maybe next time I'll bring my own money.

all opinions wellcome,

-psg
link to original post

I think you’re over tipping.

Agreed. Now, should the tip be propotional to the bet or what the dealer makes? What about tipping $25 on $500 min? Does that look cheap?
Maybe there's a way to make the tip insignificant to the EV but still good for the dealer. Assuming the dealer 'helps' out in return for a tip.

What do you get for comps?
Would you tip 20% of your comps?
The comps I get are absolutely nearly non-existent, so all I could muster is the $1 drink tip and even for that I should bring my own quarters.

This guy must be flyered all over the city and the disguise isn't helping. He gets ejected after a minimum of hands each time. Maybe it's his betting pattern, but I think he's flyered. With only 2 companies owning most of the strip casinos, it's easy to get backed off from all or nearly all of them instantly. At least they said he could play other games.
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