Man Dies at BJ table - dealer kept dealing
a gambler was slumped over at at a Wynn BJ table experiencing cardiac arrest and the dealer kept dealing to another player per allegations in the lawsuit
his family is suing and is saying it took way too long to get him help - that he could have been saved if he had been attended to earlier
the complaint alleges that instead of helping him Wynn employees started counting his chips
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/lawsuit-dealer-continued-to-deal-with-man-slumped-over-during-cardiac-arrest-2731495/
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Quote: rxwineHmm. Defense is probably going to be drunks passing out is not so uncommon.
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It's a bad look for the casino, but probably no liability. I'm doubtful there's a legal duty to gamblers in that context.
Reminds me that every year or so there's a news story in NY about "dead body rides subway for an hour before anyone notices!" Always over the top reactions. But people sleep on the subway all the time. I'd never check on an adult that looks to be sleeping. Maybe when the train gets to the end of the line and someone has to clean the car they'll prod the body and then realize something is up. But before then, no chance.
DEAD WEIRD The rise of bizarre ‘extreme embalming’ where corpses are put into lifelike poses so they can go to their own funerals
As far as counting the chips, they have to do that if anyone leaves the table and does not return or will not be returning anytime soon.
My wife's cousin, age 60, died yesterday of a massive heart attack. She was in the hospital -in the ER waiting room, waiting on her husband, who had earlier had a cardiac event. The doctors in the hospital could not save her, even though she was in the hospital when the heart attack occurred. The husband lived.
How do other casinos in town handle the issue?
What is the reasonable standard of care required for such a scenario, if any?
OK, ok, the pit should have been on the horn calling for a medic.
Could they be somewhat liable? Heck if I know. Fat chance a lawyer dies in a public business without lawyer’s family suing the business in any case I think.
Probably a strong enough case to make it to the jury.
I suspect Wynn will settle out of court, but if not it should make for an interesting trial if goes that far.
"What happens in Vegas ... just sucks, sometimes."
But, yeah 16 mins is pretty absurd in a place you are surrounded by security, and the dealer can see you passed out. Even if the dealer thought that he was drunk, they still should have instantly called security if somebody passed out. If they were counting his chips immediately to secure them they knew something was wrong (the first step should have been calling their medical response team).
A jury watching a video of a heart attack victim slumped over for sixteen minutes while cards are dealt by the dealer next to him isn't what I would want if I worked for the casino.
One thing I note (particularly since I was homeless for a few years) is that no business including casinos let patrons sleep. Usually they will tap you on the shoulder and tell you that you can't sleep there
I've been woken in bars, restaurants, you name it
This doesn't look like anything but negligence to me.
Quote: lilredrooster.
a gambler was slumped over at at a Wynn BJ table experiencing cardiac arrest and the dealer kept dealing to another player per allegations in the lawsuit...
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It would have gone down like that at any casino. I've twice seen other players go into cardiac arrest at the blackjack table and the dealer kept dealing to the other players. As callous as this may seem, I hope the Wynn wins.
Quote: WizardQuote: lilredrooster.
a gambler was slumped over at at a Wynn BJ table experiencing cardiac arrest and the dealer kept dealing to another player per allegations in the lawsuit...
link to original post
It would have gone down like that at any casino. I've twice seen other players go into cardiac arrest at the blackjack table and the dealer kept dealing to the other players. As callous as this may seem, I hope the Wynn wins.
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A person collapses for 16 minutes at the Walgreens and they keep doing business as usual.
A person collapses for 16 minutes at McDonalds and they step over the guy to hand customers their order for 16 minutes.
A person collapses for 16 minutes at the bank and the tellers keep on handling transactions.
To me, these are such ridiculous examples. Why is the casino example not equally ridiculous?
Quote: WizardQuote: lilredrooster.
a gambler was slumped over at at a Wynn BJ table experiencing cardiac arrest and the dealer kept dealing to another player per allegations in the lawsuit...
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It would have gone down like that at any casino. I've twice seen other players go into cardiac arrest at the blackjack table and the dealer kept dealing to the other players. As callous as this may seem, I hope the Wynn wins.
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Why would you want Wynn to win? To encourage such behavior?
If they win against the casino, casinos might start poking me if I doze off for a few seconds. "Is he dead? Is he dead?"
My dad used to say, "I'm not sleeping, I'm just resting my eyes."
Duty
Breach
Actual Cause
Legal Cause
(Damages)
Duty - In this case, did the Casino have a duty to look out for the player? Obviously yes a casino has a duty to provide a safe environment and provide for the safety of a patron, but does this duty extend to taking action if a patron falls ill? Let's give the Plaintiff this one - that the casino did have a duty to look out for customers who fall ill at their tables - that in this situation a duty of due care would include rendering aid if someone falls ill on the premises.
Breach - did the Casino breach that Duty by not rendering aid in a timely fashion? Well we could give them this one too, that by not rendering aid quickly they breached their duty of due care. BUT I'd say that the casino might also argue that they did not breach their duty because they could not have become aware that the patron was anything other than just dozing off until some time had passed.
Actual Cause (also called cause in fact) - Was the casino's action (or failure to act) the actual cause of the death - But For the casino's actions would the patron have died? If the casino had not rendered its aid after a period of time (versus immediately) would the patron have died? Medical experts on both sides are going to argue this one.
Legal Cause (also called proximate cause) - This is another causation test. Was the breach legally sufficient to cause the death? Was the casino's failure to act quickly a substantial cause leading to the patron's death?
Foreseeability is also used here - was it reasonably foreseeable that if the Plaintiff had not rendered aid quickly that the patron would have died?
If this goes to trial I'd expect the casino to argue both that they could not have known that a mere dozing off action was indicative of a heart attack until perhaps the dozing off had gone on for a period of time, and then also argue causation - that even if aid had been rendered more quickly the patron would have died anyway.
Only after we get through all of the above successfully do we get to damages.
Quote: MDawgAs with any other such action you have to prove
Duty
Breach
Actual Cause
Legal Cause
(Damages)
Duty - In this case, did the Casino have a duty to look out for the player? Obviously yes a casino has a duty to provide a safe environment and provide for the safety of a patron, but does this duty extend to taking action if a patron falls ill? Let's give the Plaintiff this one - that the casino did have a duty to look out for customers who fall ill at their tables - that in this situation a duty of due care would include rendering aid if someone falls ill on the premises.
Breach - did the Casino breach that Duty by not rendering aid in a timely fashion? Well we could give them this one too, that by not rendering aid quickly they breached their duty of due care. BUT I'd say that the casino might also argue that they did not breach their duty because they could not have become aware that the patron was anything other than just dozing off until some time had passed.
Actual Cause (also called cause in fact) - Was the casino's action (or failure to act) the actual cause of the death - But For the casino's actions would the patron have died? If the casino had not rendered its aid after a period of time (versus immediately) would the patron have died? Medical experts on both sides are going to argue this one.
Legal Cause (also called proximate cause) - This is another causation test. Was the breach legally sufficient to cause the death? Was the casino's failure to act quickly a substantial cause leading to the patron's death?
Foreseeability is also used here - was it reasonably foreseeable that if the Plaintiff had not rendered aid quickly that the patron would have died?
If this goes to trial I'd expect the casino to argue both that they could not have known that a mere dozing off action was indicative of a heart attack until perhaps the dozing off had gone on for a period of time, and then also argue causation - that even if aid had been rendered more quickly the patron would have died anyway.
Only after we get through all of the above successfully do we get to damages.
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I agree.
But let me add that without seeing the actual footage one can't really decide.
Something tells me the footage is already handed over. This would be an action involving police as well as medical aid and surveillance may have already been made available. Consider they listed the exact time sixteen minutes in the legal complaint. That seems too exact for them to not have the video in hand IMO.
How was he slumped forward. How did he lower himself into a sleeping position.
Methinks one doesn't comfortably look at rest when suffering a heart attack from the seated position with an expectation of gambling. Again would need to see how egregious the actual footage appears.
One other thing no one has discussed is their use of the defibrillator. If they used it incorrectly that may make them more liable than not using it at all. Like moving a person with a broken neck one should either know what they are doing or lay off
Quote:Under Nevada's Good Samaritan Law, when a person encounters an emergency, and they make an honest effort to provide help, they're not liable if they make mistakes. Nevada law 41.500 says that any person who offers gratuitous, good-faith help during an emergency is exempt from legal liability because of their actions.
That Good Samaritan law rxwine mentions is so that passersby such as at the scene of an accident aren't dissuaded from trying to help. It supplants the "Once an individual begins helping another, common law imposes a duty to do so reasonably" standard which made many bystanders reluctant to help at all. That law doesn't mean that someone may do something obviously derelict and get away with it, just that if someone tries to help in good faith, he is generally immune from liability. Nor does it apply to anyone who has a preexisting duty to render aid - such as casino staff, especially casino trained emergency response staff. It applies to "gratuitous" passersby type aid.
Over all though, what D.Oz says makes sense about that the video might show whether the casinos acted reasonably under the circumstances.
Quote: MDawgIf the trained staff at a casino did something that hurt rather than helped someone in distress certainly that would be viewed as a breach of their duty of due care.
That Good Samaritan law rxwine mentions is so that passersby such as at the scene of an accident aren't dissuaded from trying to help. It supplants the "Once an individual begins helping another, common law imposes a duty to do so reasonably" standard which made many bystanders reluctant to help at all. That law doesn't mean that someone may do something obviously derelict and get away with it, just that if someone tries to help in good faith, he is generally immune from liability. Nor does it apply to anyone who has a preexisting duty to render aid - such as casino staff, especially casino trained emergency response staff.
Over all though, what D.Oz says makes sense about that the video might show whether the casinos acted reasonably under the circumstances.
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I suppose if we have a current or past casino employee we might get a low down on what kind of policy they had on the premises for such things. I imagine it would be mostly call specific people rather than do anything from a dealer’s perspective or some other floor person. But don’t know. Also would be completely different at a small casino than one of the large ones.
Quote: rxwine
I suppose if we have a current or past casino employee we might get a low down on what kind of policy they had on the premises for such things. I imagine it would be mostly call specific people rather than do anything from a dealer’s perspective or some other floor person. But don’t know. Also would be completely different at a small casino than one of the large ones.
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Our dealers were told to protect your chip tray under any adverse scenario. The dealer wouldn't be expected to do anything further than to signal for assistance.
Quote: darkozI expect they will settle.
A jury watching a video of a heart attack victim slumped over for sixteen minutes while cards are dealt by the dealer next to him isn't what I would want if I worked for the casino.
One thing I note (particularly since I was homeless for a few years) is that no business including casinos let patrons sleep. Usually they will tap you on the shoulder and tell you that you can't sleep there
I've been woken in bars, restaurants, you name it
This doesn't look like anything but negligence to me.
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That is what I don't understand. If you nod off at a table or pull your phone out at a BJ table security is on you within seconds to tell you to focus or leave the table. The idea that somebody who was actively playing suddenly passes out (presumable after spasming) and slumps onto the table, and security did not notice for 16 mins (or anyone with the ability to call security) is pretty egregious.
The Wynn is a major resort (upscale), right on the strip, this is not some dinky casino in the middle of the desert with like two security guards napping in the corner. If they don't have protocol to respond to basic medical emergencies, that does not bode well for other casinos.
The deceased was a business invitee but the wild card in the deck is that he didn't die due to defect or unknown danger at the casino; that is where that doctrine typically applies.
No, this is something different, and there may not be a statute that controls the situation: if so, then it is up to the common law and a neglgence analysis presupposes a casino would have some duty of care to its patrons, and I'm not sure they have one.
Interesting: let's see how the case progresses, what legal theories of liability are raised as well as any defenses.
Quote:David Cash, the UC Berkeley student who waited outside a Nevada casino restroom while his friend Jeremy Strohmeyer murdered a 7-year-old girl, witnessed the teenager molesting the child, two high school classmates have told authorities.
The accounts of Cash’s schoolmates seem likely to intensify campaigns to have Cash criminally charged and thrown out of Berkeley, where he is a sophomore studying nuclear engineering.
In recent months, Cash has been the subject of widespread moral after Strohmeyer told him that he killed Sherrice Iverson in mid-1997, when Cash and Strohmeyer were high school seniors in Long Beach.
In statements to police, sworn testimony to a grand jury and interviews with The Times, Cash has said that he saw Strohmeyer carry the struggling girl into the restroom stall, but left before Strohmeyer sexually assaulted and then strangled her. But two of Cash’s schoolmates say he told them that he saw Strohmeyer molest Sherrice.
One friend, Jeremy Phillips, who lived with Cash this summer, said he went to authorities last month because he feared that Cash would lie about the incident during Strohmeyer’s murder trial, according to an 83-page transcript of an interview with a Clark County, Nev., district attorney’s investigator.
Cash, 19, declined to comment. His attorney, Mark Werksman, said that he had not seen the schoolmates’ statements but that Cash’s legal liability was unaffected.
“David doesn’t bear any criminal liability for what happened,” Werksman said.
AFAICT, he never could be charged with anything.
Quote: MrVHow might the so-called "good samaritan" statute apply here, as just the opposite thing occurred: no help was offered, period.
The deceased was a business invitee but the wild card in the deck is that he didn't die due to defect or unknown danger at the casino; that is where that doctrine typically applies.
No, this is something different, and there may not be a statute that controls the situation: if so, then it is up to the common law and a neglgence analysis presupposes a casino would have some duty of care to its patrons, and I'm not sure they have one.
Interesting: let's see how the case progresses, what legal theories of liability are raised as well as any defenses.
link to original post[/Many of us remember Mr.V's sorted past with Larry S.
Whatever the case. he seem to have had a come to Jesus moment. His legal advice/opinions seem legitimate and reasonable. Way better than others hwrw who claim to have a legal background♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Quote: billryanWhy would you want Wynn to win? To encourage such behavior?
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There would be lawsuits right and left if businesses could be sued for not rendering aid. I'm sure the Wynn called 911 and escorted the paramedics to the proper table. There would have to be blatant negligence for me to take the patron's side. Maybe there was and I'm open to hearing more facts of the case. However, I'd lay long odds it's a money grab.
Quote: WizardQuote: billryanWhy would you want Wynn to win? To encourage such behavior?
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There would be lawsuits right and left if businesses could be sued for not rendering aid. I'm sure the Wynn called 911 and escorted the paramedics to the proper table. There would have to be blatant negligence for me to take the patron's side. Maybe there was and I'm open to hearing more facts of the case. However, I'd lay long odds it's a money grab.
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Every civil lawsuit is a money grab.
But we certainly don’t know all the facts. But if he was identified as being unconscious and was just left there while the dealer kept on dealing then that’s just wrong. If they didn’t recognize him as being unconscious that’s a different story.
Seriously, even if it was just a drunken stupor his condition should have been checked anyway.
Quote: Wizard
There would be lawsuits right and left if businesses could be sued for not rendering aid. I'm sure the Wynn called 911 and escorted the paramedics to the proper table. There would have to be blatant negligence for me to take the patron's side. Maybe there was and I'm open to hearing more facts of the case. However, I'd lay long odds it's a money grab.
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what do you think the chances are that if a man dressed in a business suit who was seated at a desk and waiting to speak to a Manager at a retail bank collapsed - that he would not get immediate attention_______?
my answer - slim and none
it's not really fair to characterize it as a money grab since when anyone is wronged by any business that is really the only way for the person or persons who believe they have been wronged to be made whole
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Quote: QuadrigaHow come when a woman is face-down at someone's house she's considered a slut, but when a middle age man does it he's simply dying?
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Gross.
Quote: WizardQuote: lilredrooster.
a gambler was slumped over at at a Wynn BJ table experiencing cardiac arrest and the dealer kept dealing to another player per allegations in the lawsuit...
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It would have gone down like that at any casino. I've twice seen other players go into cardiac arrest at the blackjack table and the dealer kept dealing to the other players. As callous as this may seem, I hope the Wynn wins.
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I've never witnessed a drunk at any kind of casino game. But I don't have the hours of play that most of y'all have.
Quote: jjjoooggg
I've never witnessed a drunk at any kind of casino game. But I don't have the hours of play that most of y'all have.
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I've seen very drunk players at Pai Gow Tiles games before. It's pretty impressive because that is a very hard game to play while you're drunk.
Quote: jjjooogggQuote: WizardQuote: lilredrooster.
a gambler was slumped over at at a Wynn BJ table experiencing cardiac arrest and the dealer kept dealing to another player per allegations in the lawsuit...
link to original post
It would have gone down like that at any casino. I've twice seen other players go into cardiac arrest at the blackjack table and the dealer kept dealing to the other players. As callous as this may seem, I hope the Wynn wins.
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I've never witnessed a drunk at any kind of casino game. But I don't have the hours of play that most of y'all have.
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I played Blackjack at Tropicana a long time ago and OJ Simpson and Dwight Clark sat down to play at the table. OJ was so drunk that after falling asleep many times between deals they kicked him off the game.
