Blackjack, two gamblers on one box
Sorry if this topic has already been brought up. If so, please provide a link to it.
The question is. If by agreement we two play different bets on one box, and the casino lets one of us do the surender or even money, while the other can hit. In total together, can we get an advantage?
Quote: DobrijHi to all !
Sorry if this topic has already been brought up. If so, please provide a link to it.
The question is. If by agreement we two play different bets on one box, and the casino lets one of us do the surender or even money, while the other can hit. In total together, can we get an advantage?
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No. One of you is making the correct play and the other one is making the incorrect play. You do not gain an advantage by having one of you make a non optimal play.
Even if it’s true, it’s gotta be a negligible effect especially factoring in the low frequency of 88 v 10Quote: acesideEliot has mentioned that in some split for less situations, we may gain a little edge, For example, player 8,8 vs 10.
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The larger the spread between the initial bettor and the back bettor can increase the edge.
Quote: acesideEliot has mentioned that in some split for less situations, we may gain a little edge, For example, player 8,8 vs 10.
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Split for less? I’ve never seen that. What casino allows you to split for less? Or is just that I haven’t played blackjack in quite a while..
Even if….. that’s not what the OP asked. He was asking about surrender.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: acesideEliot has mentioned that in some split for less situations, we may gain a little edge, For example, player 8,8 vs 10.
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Split for less? I’ve never seen that. What casino allows you to split for less? Or is just that I haven’t played blackjack in quite a while..
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In some casinos overseas they allow back betting . The seated player controls the spot usually. ( some places the biggest bettor controls it) So the $ 5 player splits 8,8 vs 10 the big bettor doesn’t want to split so he plays one hand with now a starting total of 8, which is much better than starting with a total of 16. There are other similar scenarios.
Though I don’t understand why someone would want to
Quote: HunterhillQuote: SOOPOOQuote: acesideEliot has mentioned that in some split for less situations, we may gain a little edge, For example, player 8,8 vs 10.
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Split for less? I’ve never seen that. What casino allows you to split for less? Or is just that I haven’t played blackjack in quite a while..
link to original post
In some casinos overseas they allow back betting . The seated player controls the spot usually. ( some places the biggest bettor controls it) So the $ 5 player splits 8,8 vs 10 the big bettor doesn’t want to split so he plays one hand with now a starting total of 8, which is much better than starting with a total of 16. There are other similar scenarios.
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I’ve played overseas with back betting allowed. The larger bettor controlled the action. There were no separate actions. Of course I haven’t played everywhere. But I now understand the concept, I just find it hard to believe a casino would allow it.
https://bj21.com/boards/green-chip-forums/sub_boards/posts-of-the-month-archive/topics/mar-2013-splitting-hairs-on-hairy-splits?page=1
The post describes the advantage gained by two players working in conjunction with one (the Front Bettor, or FB) betting small and controlling the action on the box while the other (the Back Bettor, or BB) back bets a large amount.
A quote from the post describing the concept:
Quote:"As a simple example, let's assume the FB bets $10, while the BB bets $100, on a 6D, S17, DAS game. Our heroes are dealt 6-6 vs. 9. What is their optimal play?
If we consult an expectation table, for example, the Wizard of Odds Appendix 9 table (sorry, Don ... his were online so I didn't have to type them myself!) at https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/9/6ds17r4/, we can see that the Hit expectation is -0.347155, which means that if they Hit (the BS play, of course), our team can expect a return of -0.347155*($110) = -$38.18705.
But what if they Split? The same table shows the Split expectation is -0.602063, but this is for "normal" splits, where both resulting hands begin with the same wager. For each of the two hands, then, the expectation is one-half the given value, or -0.3010315. Now if the team performs as unequal split, they'll have one $110 bet and one $10 bet, each with an expectation of -0.3010315. This means that our heroes can expect a return of -0.3010315*($110 + $10) = -$36.12378. Although this is still negative, it's not as negative as the BS play of Hit. Thus, in this case the optimal "team" play is to perform an unequal split."
The post then describes how to calculate the optimal play for each potential split using EV tables, and presents tables of the optimal team strategy, which varies based on the house rules (S17/H17; DAS/NoDAS), number of decks, and the ratio of big bet to small bet. It concludes by tabulating the increase in EV gained by using the optimal team strategy.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
https://www.888casino.com/blog/blackjack-tips/splitting-for-less-in-blackjack
Quote: DobrijHi to all !
Sorry if this topic has already been brought up. If so, please provide a link to it.
The question is. If by agreement we two play different bets on one box, and the casino lets one of us do the surender or even money, while the other can hit. In total together, can we get an advantage?
link to original post
I have never seen a casino that lets two different people bet and make different decisions. Normally backbetting is one person playing the hand and the other just has to go along with all of the actions of the primary player.
Many years ago backbetting was very big in Atlantic City when players couldn't get their own seat. I had a scenario where the guy backbetting on my hand was drunk and obnoxious. I eventually just started making the minimum $5 bet and busting on purpose so the other guy would lose his bets which were much bigger, and then leave. The drunk started threatening me and the pitboss called security and had him thrown out.
No one has answered my question if it is actually available in real life now?
And even if available, wouldn’t taking advantage of it be even more obvious than card counting?
Quote: SOOPOOThe concept is pretty simple.
No one has answered my question if it is actually available in real life now?
And even if available, wouldn’t taking advantage of it be even more obvious than card counting?
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The last time I saw it was in 1996 in Venezuela. It was common in Asian casinos in 70s and 80s. I don’t know if it still exists.
