Stadium bj strategy

I am trying to figure out if there should be basic strategy variations for Stadium bj. Does anyone know where there are ev charts for knowing the dealers hole card.

The most obvious difference would be when you have a three card 16 against a dealer 10. If you hit or stand you lose if the next card is a 7 through 10. If you stand and the next card is a 2 through 6 the dealer has a hand you should not hit against. Therefore, it seems like you should never hit hard 16 against a 10

but ev charts would be needed to confirm. And what about hard 15 against a ten?

Quote: Hichair

I am trying to figure out if there should be basic strategy variations for Stadium bj. Does anyone know where there are ev charts for knowing the dealers hole card.

The most obvious difference would be when you have a three card 16 against a dealer 10. If you hit or stand you lose if the next card is a 7 through 10. If you stand and the next card is a 2 through 6 the dealer has a hand you should not hit against. Therefore, it seems like you should never hit hard 16 against a 10

but ev charts would be needed to confirm. And what about hard 15 against a ten?

I will confess to being baffled by your post. I cannot imagine anyone hole-carding in a stadium game.

Is stadium BJ a "no-peek" game?

I'm guessing this is the same as European BJ in the next card either goes to you or the dealer. You are correct that there are some times you cannot win, there are also times you cannot lose (e.g. 2 2 T). Some of the times that you were better to hit is with two small cards (e.g. 5 5). In the end it all evens out to be the same as regular BJ and you have to accept times when "if you had done that" you might have won. Typically you remember those and not the ones where it's the other way round.

Apart from the doubling and splitting, the strategy should be the same whether the dealer has peeked or not. (With peeking, there is a very slight mathematical difference that you have the information the dealer's down-card isn't an Ace so your chances of getting an Ace are slightly higher than otherwise, but this is not significant.)

Sorry for the confusion. My point is that in normal blackjack there is no correlation between your next card and the dealers hole card. However in Stadium, if you don't hit, the dealer gets the next card. It seems like the only time this would make a difference is in hands like 15 or 16 against a 9 or a 10.

Considering 16 vs 10, let's assume the next card is a 2. If you hit the ev for 18 against a 10 is roughly -.175. If you stay, what is the ev for 16 against a 12. If you add up the evs for each card ace through six (7 through ten are minus 1 ev either way) you would get the best strategy. It seems like it would be a different result than when there is no correlation between the dealers hole card and your next card.

If I had an ev chart for 16 against a 12, 13 , 14, 15 and 16, I could make the calculations. Or just a chart of the probability of busting with a total of hard 12 through 16.

This would only matter if you knew the next card.

Quote: Hichair

<snip>If I had an ev chart for 16 against a 12, 13 , 14, 15 and 16, I could make the calculations. Or just a chart of the probability of busting with a total of hard 12 through 16.

Hichair,

Your wish is my command! Here is the EV for standing on 16 (or any stiff hand) vs. the indicated dealer upcard, assuming a 6D, H17 game:

Upcard	Win Prob	Lose Prob	EV
Ace	0.139149	0.860851	-0.721702
2	0.356661	0.643339	-0.286678
3	0.376958	0.623042	-0.246084
4	0.398470	0.601530	-0.203060
5	0.419632	0.580368	-0.160736
6	0.439259	0.560741	-0.121482

The "Win Prob" numbers are simply the "Dealer Bust" probabilities from the Wizard of Odds at

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/dealer-odds-blackjack-european-rules/

because you'll win only if the dealer busts. The "Lose Prob" is just 1 - "Win Prob", and the EV is just "Win Prob" - "Lose Prob". By the way, I assumed ENHC rules, so a dealer BJ beats all splits and double downs: if not, then the Ace results will differ. Naturally, the numbers will also differ for S17 and for different numbers of decks, which is why I explained the calculations ;-)

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Has this been asked before?

I have a feeling the only change in basic strategy would be if all splits/doubles lose their full amount, rather than just the original bet, against a dealer blackjack.
i.e. if I have a $10 bet and double on an 11, but the dealer ends up with a blackjack, do I lose $10 or $20?

Otherwise, when the dealer receives their hole card is irrelevant in terms of strategy. This smacks of "taking a dealer's bust card."

Thanks Dog Hand. But I really need evs for hard totals busting. I.e. assuming the player has a hard 16. Roughly 1/13 of the time the next card is a 6. If you hit, your ev is minus 1. If you stay the dealer will get 16. He will bust on 8 of the 13 next cards (6 through 10). So his probability of busting is 8÷13 or .615. Another example. 1/13 of the time the next card is an ace, if you hit you have 17 and your ev for 17 against a ten is roughly -.455. Your ev for staying is minus one since he would have blackjack.

2 through five are tougher calculations.

If you sum up the evs for ace through 6 for both standing and hitting, do you get a different result than basic strategy?

Quote: Hichair

do you get a different result than basic strategy?

No. It doesn't matter if the next card is going to the dealer, another player, the cocktail waitress, if it's dipped in kerosene and lit on fire or placed in a hot dog bun, smothered with onions and peppers and consumed by a fat man in a tutu.

Assuming the dealer does not know whether they will have a BJ using infinite deck you get the following - these figures agree with the wizard's as those figures assume the dealer has already peeked. Thus this table shows it doesn't matter whether the dealer already has their second card or not (assuming they haven't peeked).

Next Card	Hit EV	Stand EV	Combos	Contribution	Contribution
10	-1.000 000	-1.000 000	4	-4.000 000	-4.000 000
9	-1.000 000	-1.000 000	1	-1.000 000	-1.000 000
8	-1.000 000	-1.000 000	1	-1.000 000	-1.000 000
7	-1.000 000	-1.000 000	1	-1.000 000	-1.000 000
6	-1.000 000	.230 769	1	-1.000 000	.230 769
5	.811 653	.171 598	1	.811 653	.171 598
4	.434 958	.107 874	1	.434 958	.107 874
3	-.018 660	.039 249	1	-.018 660	.039 249
2	-.241 509	-.034 655	1	-.241 509	-.034 655
1	-.464 358	-1.000 000	1	-.464 358	-1.000 000
				-.575 224	-.575 782

Thank you Charlie Patrick. That is the exact calculations I was interested in.

Stadium BJ is like European no peek but in which you always have the far left seat and are the last person to act before the dealer acts.

Early in my BJ career, several decades ago, I dutifully sat down and went through all the scenarios for 16vT in which either the dealer or I would get the next card. I remember how surprised I was to find that the odds were exactly the same as if the dealer had a facedown card. There is no difference.